You hate them because they can deconstruct you. They aren’t endlessly sucking your dick like a majority of other RPG characters so it offends you that a character can actually offer critique and insight on your actions and personality. Deep down you know they’re right yet you still kick and scream and claim they’re bad characters because ultimately, they filtered you.
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Is this a KotoR thread?
Kreia, yes
Ulysses, no
Its a Chris Avalone mouthpiece character thread
I hate Kreia because she's a woman and behaves like a woman would.
Better then the failed specimen your are Anon
Wrong. They’re pre-programmed to criticize everything you do no matter what.
>Give the homeless man money
>Lose Influence: Kreia
>Don’t give the homeless man money
>Lose influence: Kreia
If they criticize you no matter what then it only SEEMS like they’re interesting if you only do one play through but it becomes apparent they’re going to spew the same exact line if you choose the opposite choice in future play throughs.
>Say okay
>Gain influence: Kreia
People are STILL seething about that one fricking scene 20 years later holy shit
Because it's stupid, and yet midwits still claim it's "deep"
Its just there to set up her philosophy on dogma.
Nobody claims its deep, its surface level shit except YOU morons still seethe that there is no "correct" choice in the scenario
Why shouldn't people seethe about it? It's an unfair fight. The game doesn't give you an option to avoid it or a neutral option. It's bad game design and bad writing. If you think it's not worth talking about, why are you even here?
An unfair fight? Are you moronic? she just tells you to think about your actions instead of mindlessly choosing light or dark. That's all the scene is suppose to be. She even respects your choice as long as you tell her you weren't acting like a brainless moron.
you homosexuals have been whining about this scene for 20 god damn years because an NPC told you to think for yourself.
Holy shit, how long are you going to cry about muh 20 hecking years? Shut the frick up
how long are you going to cry about this single fricking scene?
There's a whole game full of Kriea's nonsense, and yet you are incredibly defensive over that one moment in particular.
that's funny, because its the only scene you people talk about.
You've been an emotional woman all thread and there's nothing left to discuss with you.
NTA but I read the reply chain and you're a moron and you should have a nice day.
samegay
moron
>what is id switching
samegay
Yeah bro, I totally did that in 3 seconds. moron.
the only emotional women in this thread are the gays who still whine about this scene.
All I'm doing is calling you a homosexual.
You lost.
You didn't actually address my points and you insulted me. You are obviously not a man of reason and I have no interest in talking to you further.
Most people havent played KOTOR 2 they just watch that one scene on Youtube and argue that the entire game is like that.
>pick the option to walk past the beggar, like literally everyone does every time they encounter a beggar IRL
>"no you can't do that lol"
>tell the beggar to get away from you or else
>WHY WOULD YOU DO SUCH A THING
>IS YOUR RAGE ALL THAT DRIVES YOU
I love how this scene perfectly encapsulates everyone being filtered. It's like the dialog equivalent of that homosexual on the hill in Dragon's Dogma.
>she just tells you to think about your actions instead of mindlessly choosing light or dark.
There is only the light and dark choice, I had no option not to choose it and think for myself.
You didn't have the option to suggest a fiscal policy targeting the homeless either. What's your point?
Literally the only person seething here is you
I only care that there's no choice equivalent to "Did I fricking ask for your input, failure granny?"
>Nobody claims its deep
Akchually, one of the most common defenses of the scene is that it asks the player to think about choices before making them, i.e. that it adds depth to the gameplay. The problem is that it just doesn't come up again in the way those people claim.
You can basically tell her "I don't agree, frick off" and lose some influence for it. Her entire philosophy is just seething at the Force because she doesn't like being controlled by it and you can disagree with her at every turn if you want to. Kreia's character is really nothing to get bent out of shape over, I think people just assume that her point of view must have the game's endorsement because she's arguably the main character.
>Akchually, one of the most common defenses of the scene is that it asks the player to think about choices before making them, i.e. that it adds depth to the gameplay.
You think that thinking about something you do, a common reaction to an action is depth? It should be second nature to any functioning creature who has intelligence levels above a chimp (i.e. most humans).
Not once is it presented as deep. If anything a midwit would get mad at a character telling them two scenarios in a universe where seeing the future is possible and on a planet and galaxy shrouded by an implied, sapient energy field
It's a shit scene that's forced on you almost the moment you land on a new planet and just want to start exploring. It stands out for it's atrocious placement and its garbage message.
If you want a dialogue about considering the consequences of your choices, try the one at the end of Dantooine with the merc leader.
They're mad because Kreia didn't just suck their dick and they had to endure minor criticism for an action they thought was justified. I can't imagine being mad over a game character lol
The problem is you can't not do the action, it's not an action I thought was justified it was an action I had no choice in making.
This is precisely why romance in vidya will always be garbage. Players have been trained to believe there is a correct path, that they can win a conversation or beat a relationship. They are so hyperfocused on this goal that they fail to see that a conversation or relationship is often more than simply transactional.
Kreia disapproves all options because your character is like most people at that point in the story. They see a situation and whether they go through some kind of moral or logic process or not - they come to a decision and act. However, you're a Force user, one in a particularly special position because not only do you influence the people near you you also influence the Force itself. You need to start thinking and behaving that way. As your character is moving from planet to planet, meeting and/or beating all these jedi masters - they are coming to terms with this reality and Kreia is doing her best to get you to draw the same conclusions she has.
usually that's the case but for kreia specifically that's actually part of her meta scheme. she's basically psyoping you.
Yes that's called good writing.
homie i just deliver mail
I don't care I just tell Kreia to stfu while I bang Handmaiden and Visas.
Ulysses was a stupid man child whose logic only works as a critique for video games, and not even an interesting one.
Hold up you guys are telling me that you didn't immediately conclude lonesome road was a giant frick you to Bethesda fallout?
You're literally walking a linear path, getting b***hed at for a stupid reason, shooting at brainless enemies, blowing up nukes to progress as some dude jacks off over an american flag through a speaker.
Seriously, compare it to 76 for a moment in principle. It's dead on. The scorched and the lurkers (or the red people). The overseer and Ulysses via EDE. Nuking shit over and over again for no reasons. Avellone is a gay but he called it.
and what was the ending again?
>It will happen again
>It will keep happening.
The courier never went to all those places. But you did.
he didn't "call it" they just ripped him off like they do with everything.
you're right it's very DS3
Except contrary to Lonesome Road, Bethesda Fallouts are actually fun to play.
Always takes one troglodyte to ruin a thread.
Yeah, in this case its OP for making it in the first place.
You're literally walking a linear path
That's New Vegas
Only if you’re a pussy
They aren't the same. Kreia is trying to break your will so she can make you her unquestioning servant. She can't risk having servants with minds of their own since she was overthrown last time.
Ulysses is mad that your character did something the player didn't do and chastises you for it while also telling you not to play the game you probably paid for. It's out of place in an rpg.
>her unquestioning servant
Everything she does builds to her suiciding by Exile and she's totally cool with you declaring you're going right back into exile once she's dead and leaving the Jedi/Sith orders to rot in history.
That's one possibility. It's called character growth.
Why are midwits so easily impressed by deconstruction? It's more impressive and interesting when people construct things, even if they're bad.
Is that why outer worlds sucked?
I hate Kreia because what Visas and I do is none of her fricking business.
Handmaiden is Kriea's daughter, she's trying to get you to frick her daughter instead of a blind b***h.
Visas is into lewd stuff like hand-holding and cuddling. Why would I pick the boring Handmaiden over that?
She's free to leave my ship any time she likes.
>None of her business
You're projecting your nasty business into her thoughts while she's trying to meditate.
You're joined at the hip with kreia. She feels everything. I imagine most people forget about this since it stops being relevant after the intro.
Kotor2 is peak midwit.
Ulysses is funny because he is basically the ultimate contrarian and sounds like every faction argument ever had about New Vegas /here/ basically out of spite for the Courier.
Ulysses is based. Deradicalizing him is the best outcome.
You can just taste the s o y emanating from that image also his face is even more effeminate than I remember, not surprised this guy lusts after 'gun's but think they should be illegal
>lusts after 'gun's but think they should be illegal
What are you talking about? Josh is a based leftist.
>cries when there aren't enough poc and lgbt folks in NV
what a homosexual
>Choose the Bear
"NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO DON'T YOU REALIZE BY SOLVING ALL THE NCR'S PROBLEMS FOR THEM YOU'VE WEAKENED THEM?!"
>Choose the Bull
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO YOU CAN'T JUST INDULGE IN YOUR PSYCHOTIC URGES BECAUSE YOU'RE STRONG!!!"
Both excellent points. You won't be alive forever and all you've done is give a man a fish. And the legion will stagnate and wither because of child abuse and degeneracy.
>And the legion will stagnate and wither because of child abuse and degeneracy.
Oh look Professor Troon is going to give us a detailed description of the outcome of a fictional society, do go on....
Keep having your gay aids ridden orgies with underage teens, homosexual. See what happens.
Pretty sure that just leads to more AIDs and more orgies.
I guess we'll see.
>Kreia
Offers insight on things you do, respects you despite your choices, fights with you, genuinely wants you to surpass her in wisdom and power and kill her. At least on my LS character I cant do dark because it just feels off.
>Ulysses
Projects all of his shortcomings and failures onto you. He is despite his soft-spoken nature one of the most evil characters in Fallout. He helped new Canaan be destroyed, help Caesar enslave his own people, started the war thats the centerpiece for the whole game and tries to kill you while pretending hes morally superior for nuking two nations.
The only things they have similar are people from your past who criticize you and being written by Avellone.
Isn’t that the point though? He’s supposed to be a hypocritical butthole who projects his shortcomings and failures onto you? I mean his whole ideology seems to be rooted less in actual ideas of nations and more tribal superstition.
Kreia I didn't mind. She's annoying, but deliberately so; she wants to see the death of the force, basically using you like a walking black hole to form connections to the whole of the force so she can then kill you and, therefor, the force itself. She wants you to grow strong, encourages selfishness for such a reason, and hates when you give that power - when you give the force - to others. Throughout the game she lies to you at key points, as early as peragus. However, the whole game isn't telling you that she's right, and that you're wrong, rather that she's wrong for having such a bleak outlook on what the force is. You're a tool to her, because while she is effectively "invisible" to others, everyone else is gathered to you even for reasons not even they understand at times. KotOR2's whole plot is really convoluted and rather poorly delivered since the most important parts of it are often little more than a single phrase, not very well emphasized by the mediocre voice acting and old game animation. Took me 4-5 playthroughs before I fully understood what the hell was fully going on. It'd be a lot better as a book.
Ulysses, however, was melodramatic and a complete idiot. Apparently your character walked through some route 66-esque town prospering from trade, unknowingly carrying a device sending out a signal to detonate unfired nukes beneath it, then blames you as if it was your fault. He's both literally, and metaphorically, shooting the messenger. He cannot see that tragedies often occur just on accident, and that there isn't always a grand reason behind things; he's so trapped in his own head and his long-winded philosophical waxing is evident of this.
>she wants to see the death of the force, basically using you like a walking black hole to form connections to the whole of the force so she can then kill you and, therefor, the force itself
Except for the fact she doesn't want that at all. She wants you to kill her and sever the bond entirely while hoping you've learned enough from her to not repeat the mistakes of both the Sith and the Jedi in being slaves to the Force and ideology.
Ulysses is just Avellone showing off his talent where he can write endless lines of text that lead to nowhere because his train of thought is a mess
No it's because they just had Ulysses read out a fricking video essay instead of talking like a normal person and apparently that's "deep" according to Avellone.
Kreia is literally a Sith lying to you every second for the sake of getting you to do her bidding, not a single thing she tells you is sincere, there is no deconstruction here
Ulysses is just a whiny b***h talking about shit the player neither knows nor cares about, nor has any reason to ever know or care about. He attacks a strawman and says the strawman is you, when you the player most likely know everything he says to be complete schizoid bullshit he made up in his own head.
>You Can Go Home Courier
>loot the first part of the Divide up to ED-E of everything useful
>leave
>never return
>Ulysses sat there alone until he kills himself because you didn't care about him
I want to b***h and moan about the DLC's. Ulysses is the most irrelevant Black person ever in video games because he has frick all to do with the central themes of the game. The DLC should have been you going to NCR land or better yet Legion land. Honest Hearts honestly feels like the ONLY relevant DLC since it shows us a nearby geographical area we might be curious about AND gives us some backstory on the Legion and New Canaan.
>Sierra Madre
It's cute and a change of pace, but it feels like a mini-version of a complete game. Like some kind of Oblivion Bio-shock.
>Old World Blues
One of the worst, most setting destroying elements in ANY Fallout game and tonally it's worse than the worst of F3 or F4. Why are they fighting over the caveman level tech of the Hoover Dam when just 20km away there's some amazing groundbreaking technology and energy source? I straight up call this non-canon.
>Lonesome Road
Railroads your backstory, Ulysses the Slam Poet is the star. I don't care about any of this. Money should have gone to post-game DLC instead.
>One of the worst, most setting destroying elements in ANY Fallout game and tonally it's worse than the worst of F3 or F4. Why are they fighting over the caveman level tech of the Hoover Dam when just 20km away there's some amazing groundbreaking technology and energy source? I straight up call this non-canon.
Because theres a force field around it that prevents entry? Did you actually play the DLC?
>Because theres a force field around it that prevents entry? Did you actually play the DLC?
1. Ulysses and Christine made it in and out no problems.
2. You have two empires with all the damn time in the world to see if there's any weaknesses. Plus this is Brotherhood of Steels' entire reason d'etre.
3. Plus your character gets in and ends up being the one who allows for the entry procedure to not literally turn you into a mindless zombie. So what if Legion sends in some slaves or agents to open the gate for the rest?
4. Plus we see that this is a decaying research institute run by half-mad brains in jars whos minds are literally falling apart. They don't have the ability to maintain all this shit forever.
5. Nightstalkers and those giant hornets made it in and out showing the enclosure isn't complete.
The whole place is a liability and any sane player would burn it to the ground.
They get killed by the robo scorpions and lobotomites, Eljahm Christine and Usuleyys were solo teams much better for infiltration. Though you're exposing your own point. Uselyys was part of the legion frumentarii. He was going out and scouting for the legion. Though you're right should be some evidence of Ranger investigations or something with the explanation being a full pivot to Old World Blues is impossible with the dam situation . They had lots of supply c hain issues and I imagine that would only exacerbate if they shifted gears to fully investigate and control OWB which has an incredibly hostile wildlife, they haven't even secured the Mojave leaving them open to the legion
My problem with it all is that the DLC did an absolutely amazing fricking job building up the mystery of Ulysses, especially that one part of Old World Blues where you get a glimpse into whatever the hell this crazy mysterious character wandering the wasteland is doing, when he has one chance to talk to the Think Tank in a rare moment of lucidity and asks them not what it takes to destroy a nation, but to create one.
Then comes Lonesome Road... and his plan is to straight up just nuke people.
I dont believe for a minute he would leave well left alone. People who want to burn down the world because they feel wronged will do it.
>beat it once
>on my last playthrough last week, join House
>throw his letter into the toilet bowl and ignore him
>let him sit in the Divide forever while the ending slide states my Courier lived in the height of luxury in the flourishing House New Vegas.
It's funny because he has lines shitting on House you'll almost never see without the mod to fix how he prioritises your reputation
I Love Kreia. She's a petulant brat which I always find endearing. Indulging her ideals is my avenue of doting.
I am a generous Jedi messiah.
I don't hate Kreia though. She's one of my favorite vidya characters.
This one irks me because ability in the Force is trained like you would train muscular strength or proficiency with a weapon. Besides a few outliers, if you get good at <Force Power> it's because you put the effort in.
she's just gaslighting you bro
Shes a hypocrite but again thats part of her character. She had no issue peeling away Attons mind and judging him for his past despite the fact that he trained himself to resist it.
oh boy another heckin goyslop thread,i love goyslop and need to discuss the same exact things every day. its all i ever think about.
>oh meme another memin memeslop meme, i love meme and meme to meme the same meme every meme. its all i ever meme about.
Making the courier actually some secret bigshot in the 11th hour was so fricking stupid. It's like they saw the Broken Steel ending and decided it would be way cool if a literal who hobo monologued at you for 3 hours about some inane philosophical bullshit before launching the nukes.
>they
Avellone wrote DM, OWB and LR. Not coincidentally they all contain elements of Van Buren's plot.
> it offends you that a character can actually offer critique and insight on your actions and personality.
Well the problem is that its a mechanical puzzle under the guise of a philosophical one. There's always "correct" options that give you more optimal rewards.
kreia is such a simple character and people cant understand that the reason they end a conversation losing and gaining influence from her is because they cant comprehend her desire to have (You) stop thinking in binary good/evil choices and understand that responding like an NPC to her assertions means youre a homosexual
I don't listen to women or tribals that can't cope with the subjugation of their tribe
Elijah in one line "deconstructed" the player far much more than fricking Ulysses, go frick yourself, pseudo-intellectual teenage homosexual.
And like Ulysess he's a huge hypocrite.
>lmao robco junk giving you map markers god youre dumb
>btw a portable computer is literally the only reason I'm still alive
>gets trapped in a vault like a Looney Tunes character
nothing personnel, you fricking moron
A schizo who cant outthink a villa built as a vanity project for a starlet.
But he got into the casino the last time he tried
He was too stupid to activate Helios, which only requires you to use two terminals and repair a wire.
>"you hate them because they can deconstruc-"
>*BOOM**BOOM**BOOM**BOOM**BOOM**BOOM* EATLEADEATLEADEATLEADEATLEADEATLEAD
It's spit lead. Spit lead.
>*throws a grenade at you*
Nothing personnel, bozo.
I dislike them because they're annoying.
Not being able to kill Morrigan is a glaring oversight.
The issue with Ulysses is that he’s a hypocrite and an idiot. He tries to go on and on how a mailman is the badguy because he delivered a package, and as a result seeks to nuke California and get that mailman’s attention so he can yap on and on, despite how much dialog he had, all of it just boiled down to “i have depression from the war, everybody else should too, and i blame you!”
Ulysses is such a downgrade, a damn shame they had to cut him from the base game.
Because he had too much dialogue and couldn't be finished in time. Most dialogue of any NPC in the game, a dubious honor which now belongs to Cass, Avellone's other companion contribution.
>da bearz
>da bullz
Yeah he was so great. Truly the greatest character to ever grace video games. The absolute fricking state of Obshitidiots.
In the actual game he wasn't going to be completely moronic, moron-kun
Idk about everyone else but I hate Ulysses because
>puts words in my mouth and judges me for beliefs I don't hold
>his whole fricking problem with me is that I, as a mailman, delivered a fricking package
>Decides the best way to get revenge against le evil mailman is to kill a frickton of innocent people and create divide 2.0 regardless of whether or not I'm even affiliated with them
>after going through ALL that bullshit in the divide to get to his little temple, he can be talked down with a couple of speech checks and become my bestie 🙂
Frick this obsessive moron and anyone who insists he has a point. Turning him into a red paste on the silo floor is the only acceptable ending to Lonesome Road.
You know he’s a schizo right?
Honestly his plans are Dick Dastardly levels of evil despite any attempts at philosophy or peace he tries to pass off. For all we know his tribe were cannibals and they have literal brainrot and withdrawal from being civilized.
/vrpg/ was a mistake
So was your mother not swallowing you, you melon headed c**t
I hate them because they talk too much and take me away from the fun part of the game. Hackin' and whackin' and smackin'.
>this setting people like? yeah its actually not very realistic lol
deconstruction is for pseud morons
>Deep down you know they’re right
Ulysses is literally wrong, nothing was my fault.
tfw no murderous psycho sith gf
no i hate Ulysses because of his endless b***hing in his homosexual voice
>knows we've all made some bad choices
>doesn't judge you because he's done so himself
>offers words of warning not just for you but for your soul
I did this DLC right for the first time by not blowing up the homosexual Indian in the baseball cap and then killing Josh immediately and it was pretty okay. Lonesome Road fricking sucks balls, though.
That's nice, but the feeling isn't mutual
Didn't play Kotor because starwars is for manchildren, but Ulysses' DLC was pretty trash. To this day I don't understand why people praise it.
>Duh, here at the end of the game and 3 other DLC let me give your blank slate character a pre-stablished backstory
>You completely decimated a whole city by our own hands you monster
No I didn't Black person, the frick are you talking about? Why the frick do I suddenly have to go "oh well guess I did that when my character's backstory was literally 100% contrary to it! Frick my canon I guess, here I go be railroaded by the GM!"
It's been a long time since I've played that dlc, and even then I only ever played it once
but I'm not gonna lie, I thought he was just confusing us with the "vault dweller" from FO3 because of our pipboy.
maybe I missed some obvious lines where he's talking about me, the fricking courier that died to some drug addicts and a homosexual in a suit who apparently levels an entire city while just traveling west?
if so, that's fricking moronic
I also thought he had the wrong person through the whole DLC. Either that or he was literally crazy. I got really confused at the end when it was played completely straight.
Like, imagine you're playing skyrim and Miirak or whatever his name was from the DLC says "Ey, 'member when you got arrested and got brought to skyrim? Well you actually got arrested because you ate 12 babies in one night and then staged a coup aiding the demons during the oblivion crisis. Yes you did, shut up".
I don’t know, that does sound like something my chaotic evil character would do in a blackout drunken rager of one night stand…
Dang that's what I feel like every time I tried to play chess frick that game
>makes fun of the thing they're doing
this is moronic
Both are a drag to interact with.
Why was Ulyses right?
Legion women can make fun of his dick size.
10/10 GOTY.
>HOW DARE YOU DO DO YOUR JOB AND DELIVER THING, EXCEPT IT HAPPENED BEFORE THE GAME SO NOT ONLY WERE YOU UNAWARE, YOU DIDN'T EVEN DO IT AT ALL! BEAR BULL BULL BULL BEAR BEAR
Damn, he really hit me where it hurts. It's like he looked into my soul.
>EXCEPT IT HAPPENED BEFORE THE GAME SO NOT ONLY WERE YOU UNAWARE, YOU DIDN'T EVEN DO IT AT ALL!
Too bad the lead-in to the dlc isn't picking up a mysterious package and delivering it, which results in the destruction.
That would've been cool
Wouldn't allow people to choose which DLC to play first tho