it seemed so good at the time but replaying it in Classic made me realize it's everything that went wrong with WoW (raidlogging, minmaxing, endgame is the only thing that matters, death of socialization, datamining)
Pretty much. Only thing you left out is how most classes essentially became demigods overnight. >pull more than 2-3 mobs at once in TBC: frick >pull less than 5 mobs in wotlk: lmao
I miss actually using CC in MMOs. Or having pulling / threat being an actual mechanic. The fact that most dungeons in most games now are just speedrun blenders feels so boring to me.
Where is the danger or risk to anything outside the hardcore raids?
>I miss actually using CC in MMOs. Or having pulling / threat being an actual mechanic. The fact that most dungeons in most games now are just speedrun blenders feels so boring to me.
Same. It felt like you were actually playing co-op and trying to reach the same goal together. Not so much now where it's basically just a measuring contest where other people are nothing more than loot-competition. >Where is the danger or risk to anything outside the hardcore raids?
In PvP I suppose, but that too became funky after wrath where it was turned into a burst-fest. People routinely got blown up in seconds before they could react with resi-gear only buying you a little more time, until MOP where they gave everyone a gorillion base-resilience (iirc) but also gave everyone the ability to do basically anything.
Bring the player not the class has been a disaster. Retail paladins have a brez now its moronic. Not saying it should be 1 shaman per group like in TBC but having 2 sometimes 3 classes that can do the same job is perfect. Think mages getting timewarp in cata. Now every class can increase movement, interrupt, hard cc, aoe and almost every spellbook is >filler garbage spell so you don't fall asleep >dot >builder >big spender >button you never press unless shiny
Often a spell is a combination of two of those
And it only made class stacking worse
What the frick are you on about? Don't you think there's no datamining, minmaxxing or raidlogging in classic tbc or classic vanilla? If anything classic wotlk is superior than both of them in terms of minmaxxing and raidlogging because in regards to minmaxxing, classes in wotlk matters more because all classes has some usefulness to them compared to vanilla where some were just straight up useless, and raidlogging was actually less common in classic wotlk because leveling and gearing was way faster which means you had more alts to raid on, this is the reason the population peaked in early wotlk (almost doubled the all time high of classic vanilla) before the raids got too hard for vanilla boomers, everyone had alts to raid on. I love vanilla but let's not pretend all that shit started in classic wotlk kek'd
Mid 2000s era gamers--casuals, shitters, fat/ugly girls. Classic was a rough lesson in "we can never go back" for me. I didn't want to believe it for so long.
5 months ago
Anonymous
None of those are game features
There are still plenty of ugly casual girls on retail too
5 months ago
Anonymous
I'd argue that the community of a MMO should be considered a "game feature" but I don't want to waste your time with my pedantry haha. I just really miss when most people online were some flavor of dork and it always bleeds out of me when I talk about WoW.
5 months ago
Anonymous
I agree with you that it was a feature. A ton of my memories about vanilla come from the type of people that played then, which really made the game play differently than it does now. When everyone follows a script to do every single thing, the game plays completely differently.
5 months ago
Anonymous
It's a feature *in* the game, not *of* the game. It's not something that's fully in the game dev's control
5 months ago
Anonymous
It's more in control than it isn't. The reason shit players demanding BIS carries are able to do such is because of things like phasing and megaservers. Not having a small, tight knit community means people can act like whatever they want and get away with it. Remove that element and see how quickly it reverses. Blizzard simply doesn't care to address it.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Phasing has literally nothing to do with people pugging you stupid Black person
It's only shit players complaining about others not inviting them to groups, the good players invite each other.
5 months ago
Anonymous
This is cope speak. You're missing the point, too. It's not about pugging, or gatekeeping, or anything. It's about how utterly unnecessary it is to do such. You can carry half a group of morons through BFD as it is now and still clear, yet people demand otherwise because they get away with it. Thing is, they're not "better" players in almost every case. They've spent the time to get better gear, certainly, but they're probably equally as shit.
You used to invite people that were more fun to play with. You don't know this. You are a zoomer. You will literally never believe this because you never got a chance to see it.
We still cleared, pugging and all, 20 years ago, and we didn't have to take the annoying shitheads to do it. The only reason you personally get away with acting like an ultrahomosexual in game is because nothing ever sticks to your name like it would have 20 years ago with smaller servers.
5 months ago
Anonymous
MMOs were always better when it was just an autistic hang out with other morons instead of everyone pretending they were trying out for a raiding esports team
5 months ago
Anonymous
i miss when damage meters didnt exist in everything
i dont even play dps anymore because of it, its just not fun to constantly feel like im being judged by everyone and under stress even in casual shit
5 months ago
Anonymous
I would love to see the timeline where they tried to keep third party forums verboten and merged servers to keep the community concentrated much earlier. The day people stopped using realm forums in favor of MMO champ and reddit is the day the game began to lose a very important aspect. It's way too late to fix now.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>There are still plenty of ugly casual girls on retail too
cool it with the transphobic remarks, also >None of those are game features
that's the point
5 months ago
Anonymous
>mid 2000s era gamers
When they did classic back in 2019, this is when I realized that no matter what they did or could have done, you weren't ever going to get that comfy feeling of MMOs again. This pretty much applies to all other games too, not just WoW.
>but replaying it in Classic made me realize it's everything that went wrong with WoW
yes, playing original wow then playing classic wow is what made me realize Wotlk is where the fanbase went to complete shit and the game could never recover
The main source of information on items was wrong about a ton of them for literal years in 2004-2007. It wasn't until wowhead started datamining fully much later that you could trust anything on them fully. This is a fact and no zoomer gaslighting will change it.
Playing through BC Classic was the biggest vidya wake up call I've ever got. I remember it being an amazing victory lap of the original game but so many systems and design-philosophy I hate in the modern game are present in BC, on top of the world being thrown together with absolutely no cohesion or artistic thought whatsoever. It's cack.
>mid 2000s era gamers
When they did classic back in 2019, this is when I realized that no matter what they did or could have done, you weren't ever going to get that comfy feeling of MMOs again. This pretty much applies to all other games too, not just WoW.
2019 was still fun and better than retail but I agree. the problem is when you play as an adult you minmaxx and try to optimaze your playtime.
As a kid you play more casually and there is a sense of wonder and mistery. i remember my first character took me 30 play days yo reach max level, in 2019 it took me 8 and I actually finished all dungeons...
>villian shows every 5 quests and does nothing >kills you at the end >but GOOD MUST ALWAYS WIN >wintersgrasp was ruined adding player limits IN A FRICKING MMORPG >missing the whole underground zone thats bigger than northrend itself
na frick off
Most memorable wintergrasp I did was full raid of horde Vs a single gnome DK, he had the outnumbered buff stacked so high he was unkillable and oneshot anyone he touched, but with enough cc and distractions we could pull him away from objectives long enough.
>only one offhand reference to ner'zhul even existing in the entire expansion >alliance only >every five seconds it's ARTHAAS
I get Arthas was interesting but WC3 ended with "now, we are one" not "hat get"
It was rife >forsaken ambush everyone at the wrathgate >blight is so devastating that even the lich king has to retreat from it >rebel forsaken immediately go sit in under city and wait to die >both factions wade through oceans of the blight like it's nothing in the process of killing them >forsaken plot just ends there, it's paladins and death Knights all the way down for the rest of the expansion
for me its >building a literal circus in his backyard >technical limirations are the only reason it wasn't in the front yard (crystalsong) >killing each other for shits and giggles while he does nothing >instead of sending half of his army to wipe the floor with us he sends a few clowns to job for our amusement >surprise there are nerubians beneath. Just like fricking icecrown leveling quests
Either that or Dr*kuru
Plus it came out only 4 months after Ulduar, which cut its life short. And then you had the extremely long content drought after ICC. They could have easily delayed ToC for another 2 months to give the expansion time to cook. Many people complained that it came out too soon and made Ulduar obsolete.
limirations are the only reason it wasn't in the front yard (crystalsong)
That was just a lie, Azjol'Nerub zone and Crystalsong Forest quests got the cut due to time constraints.
The November 2008 launch was harsh when TBC just launched in early 2007.
for me it was Ragnarok Online, I've never seen any other MMO with such a wide variety of builds per class (that actually feel different from one another); and that each shines in a niche.
My homie. The sourcecode was leaked and the game was datamined to hell and back, but nobody even GameFAQs could tell what was the "optimal" build of each class back in the day.
It was the beginning of the end.
The story and quests were good but nothing else was. After ulduar it became a slog. And then came the ilvl and achievement checks to do literally anything.
If you didn't have a guild of friends you had the noobtards pretending to be competitive.
It wad also peak lazy design as healing and tanking was op.
BC was the beginning of the end. Wrath of the Casuals solidified it. Cata was pretty much when anyone with any senses quit playing and the community as a whole was largely insufferable at this point.
iirc it was common knowledge at this point the original 4mil who played during vanilla were long gone by the end of Wrath probably before. I know all my friends were gone by the time Trials was released.
>A raid boss having different modes in the way you fought it was peak design.
Yeah mechanically unlocking the hard mode of a boss will always be way more enjoyable than just a "heroic" raid toggle. Shit is so souless
>guild lasts from 2019 to wotlk launch >Everyone quits after the first few ulduar clears >Guild disbanded
Wrath sucks, we're all back on sod now though.
The phasing they just released destroyed that, you're playing solo Wrath in vanilla zones. It's nothing like vanilla in any way. Not even the client feels the same, the core gameplay itself.
No it's not. It changed major systems every patch and the content is extremely uneven. The incompetence and greed of blizzard despite having such a lucrative game is insane when you think about it.
Wrath was the peak of MMO design, and unfortunately doubling down on everything that took away the social aspect of the game during it was what killed WoW
I don't think I've ever met anyone nostalgic for Cata or thinking that it was their favorite expac. I didn't mind Cata all that much but it always felt pretty middle of the road as far as content went for WoW
I've known a few people who were deep into that shit back in the day and would probably jizz over doing Firelands again.
If raiding is all you give a shit about I can kind of understand it, sans the last tier obviously.
I don't think I've ever met anyone nostalgic for Cata or thinking that it was their favorite expac. I didn't mind Cata all that much but it always felt pretty middle of the road as far as content went for WoW
classic mazies are already coping and saying that it's better than wrath to hype it up
lmao
You already have people starting to look forward to cata because of them being disappointed in how TBC and WOTLK classic turned out because of how easy the raiding was.
At this point, one has to wonder why they don't just bother with retail raiding if that was their angle all along.
I've known a few people who were deep into that shit back in the day and would probably jizz over doing Firelands again.
If raiding is all you give a shit about I can kind of understand it, sans the last tier obviously.
>Firelands
I guess that's a good point. I kind of hated Dragon Soul so it sours my opinion on a lot of Cata
As somebody who didn't completely hate Cata (I liked Firelands and fondly remember the PvP) it will be DoA. SoM is more to classicgay tastes. An active sub is an active sub so I don't think Blizzard will care too much.
>vanilla zones fricked and changed forever and only SLIGHTLY unfricked nearly a decade later by bronze dragons taking us back in time >the new music, while not bad, sucks in comparison to the vanilla music >dungeons and raids are good until too many casual morons cry that they're too hard, when they were in fact not >only cool thing about cata was deathwing flying through every zone and murdering everyone, but that had to be removed because morons hate fun and cool things, looking at you fricking Black folk that cried about the woltk prelaunch event >all cata zones suck ass with the only exception being the underground zone >was the start of the OLD GODS OLD GODS HAHA OLD GODS shit even though ulduar was the catalyst for that >that's not even touching upon the further lore rapes, desecration of all the comfy zones and quests in favor of le funny may mays and epic references to pop culture when they were mostly in the background in vanilla, tbc, and wotlk, the end of wrath again funny enough being the catalyst
cata was shit back then and it's still shit
and raids are good until too many casual morons cry that they're too hard, when they were in fact not
I blame WotLK for this too.
Piss easy heroics really spoiled the playerbase. Trash packs having actual mechanics that made you have to think for a second instead of mindlessly AOEing them down alone was enough to absolutely mindbreak people.
My main complaint about Cata heroics is that they took away all of my fun spells as a healer. I went from having a variety of spells meant for different kinds of healing situations, to being stuck just casting "Heal" over and over if I didn't want to run out of mana. That, plus other players didn't understand that I needed to drink to recover mana between pulls, but this is related to the Wrath mindset you mentioned.
>cata pre-patch >see the Skywall dungeons floating in the distance over Uldum from Tanaris, feel excited to finally get to go there >actually questing in Uldum weeks later
This piece of shit expansion killed MMOs. Raid difficulty modes was the worst thing to ever happen to pve MMO content. There's like 10 other similar things in the form of gatekeeping the MMO environment the game selfishly tore down to prop up it's short term metrics. You can't scrub the stain this expac created out and it's lingered in the form of player entitlement ever since. It nuked the genre. Frick it forever.
I think M+ and Blizzards pursue of it killed WoW, or rather turned into the shit it is now. Raid difficulties weren't bad backthen. Split IDs would allow you to do comfy 10-man heroic runs with your guild.
>Split IDs would allow you to do comfy 10-man heroic runs with your guild.
Depends on the guild. I remember kind of hating that shit because there were some pieces (like trinkets) that were still really good even from the lower ilevel. So you were kind of expected to almost double raid until you got a few of your pieces and then it created some random drama as well with people being pissed they were excluded from the smaller groups and ended up with a few additional cliques forming.
It turns even the most shit, green-parsing wannabe into some hyper "competitive" monkey, who follows the meta to the end. I've tanked s1 up to KMS and I didn't enjoy even a second of it, I sometimes ask myself why I did that in the first place.
The timer, the score and all that shit brings and forces out the most shit behavior from someone. It got worse over the years.
I'm not that guy but adding a timer to anything I'm doing to chill (PvE) makes it instantly unfun to me.
It also imported the kind of attitude/culture I remember hating about League of Legends when it started to get big. You would queue up for a game, not talk to anybody unless it was to call them a homosexual or whatever, and be done in 20-30 mins only to throw yourself back in queue (or LFG, in M+'s case). People who play online games with other people and don't WANT the social aspect of the game took over how online games are designed.
The social aspect of WoW was guild drama, powertripping guild leader tyrants, guild leader gfs, women in general, constant high school bullshit, insufferable incorrect memes and absolutely deliberate lore ignorance.
There was never a social benefit to WoW, Warcraft 3: RoC was always a more civil game that fostered a more mature and good-natured community.
>guild leader gfs, women in general
I could give you a countdown(in weeks) about how long it will take until the guild disbanded whenever a woman reaches officer status. I was in three guilds during Wrath+Cata where my bros and I invested solid time in those, and all three got disbanded because of some chick chat-fricking the GM.
Most of the prostitutes causing drama in my WoW life were later revealed to be men LARPing for special treatment. There was one (1) instance where pussy pics confirmed otherwise, but in general I think a lot of those stories are girl(male) driven.
I also have a funny story about how a guy (shaman) in my old Horde guild got cucked through WoW and the girl (hunter) and guy she left with (warrior) are happily married with children years later, lol.
The two actual girls I did know were fine, oddly enough. One loved to fish and was an AH goblin and the other would start arguments in trade and then log off which I also started to do.
5 months ago
Anonymous
The social aspect of WoW was guild drama, powertripping guild leader tyrants, guild leader gfs, women in general, constant high school bullshit, insufferable incorrect memes and absolutely deliberate lore ignorance.
There was never a social benefit to WoW, Warcraft 3: RoC was always a more civil game that fostered a more mature and good-natured community.
When the game's victory condition (getting all the loot from all the raids for free) is granted by playing the "social game", why would anyone willingly play the inferior class MALE instead of the superior class FEMALE with massive advantages and no accountability?
That's social gaming for you, buddy. Aren't you so fricking happy that World of Warcraft is a social game!?
all I ever did in WOW was level new characters. I'd get to level 80. do some dungeons and gear up, then when it came time to have to talk to actually have to talk to people and raid I got bored and started a new toon. Ieveled every single class to 80
game died in 3.2
it seemed so good at the time but replaying it in Classic made me realize it's everything that went wrong with WoW (raidlogging, minmaxing, endgame is the only thing that matters, death of socialization, datamining)
Pretty much. Only thing you left out is how most classes essentially became demigods overnight.
>pull more than 2-3 mobs at once in TBC: frick
>pull less than 5 mobs in wotlk: lmao
I miss actually using CC in MMOs. Or having pulling / threat being an actual mechanic. The fact that most dungeons in most games now are just speedrun blenders feels so boring to me.
Where is the danger or risk to anything outside the hardcore raids?
>I miss actually using CC in MMOs. Or having pulling / threat being an actual mechanic. The fact that most dungeons in most games now are just speedrun blenders feels so boring to me.
Same. It felt like you were actually playing co-op and trying to reach the same goal together. Not so much now where it's basically just a measuring contest where other people are nothing more than loot-competition.
>Where is the danger or risk to anything outside the hardcore raids?
In PvP I suppose, but that too became funky after wrath where it was turned into a burst-fest. People routinely got blown up in seconds before they could react with resi-gear only buying you a little more time, until MOP where they gave everyone a gorillion base-resilience (iirc) but also gave everyone the ability to do basically anything.
Bring the player not the class has been a disaster. Retail paladins have a brez now its moronic. Not saying it should be 1 shaman per group like in TBC but having 2 sometimes 3 classes that can do the same job is perfect. Think mages getting timewarp in cata. Now every class can increase movement, interrupt, hard cc, aoe and almost every spellbook is
>filler garbage spell so you don't fall asleep
>dot
>builder
>big spender
>button you never press unless shiny
Often a spell is a combination of two of those
And it only made class stacking worse
What the frick are you on about? Don't you think there's no datamining, minmaxxing or raidlogging in classic tbc or classic vanilla? If anything classic wotlk is superior than both of them in terms of minmaxxing and raidlogging because in regards to minmaxxing, classes in wotlk matters more because all classes has some usefulness to them compared to vanilla where some were just straight up useless, and raidlogging was actually less common in classic wotlk because leveling and gearing was way faster which means you had more alts to raid on, this is the reason the population peaked in early wotlk (almost doubled the all time high of classic vanilla) before the raids got too hard for vanilla boomers, everyone had alts to raid on. I love vanilla but let's not pretend all that shit started in classic wotlk kek'd
>Don't you think there's no datamining, minmaxxing or raidlogging in classic tbc or classic vanilla?
there is, and it all started with original wotlk
>but replaying it in Classic made me realize it's everything that went wrong with WoW
>in Classic
What content is missing in classic that would have made the game not be a raidlog sim?
Mid 2000s era gamers--casuals, shitters, fat/ugly girls. Classic was a rough lesson in "we can never go back" for me. I didn't want to believe it for so long.
None of those are game features
There are still plenty of ugly casual girls on retail too
I'd argue that the community of a MMO should be considered a "game feature" but I don't want to waste your time with my pedantry haha. I just really miss when most people online were some flavor of dork and it always bleeds out of me when I talk about WoW.
I agree with you that it was a feature. A ton of my memories about vanilla come from the type of people that played then, which really made the game play differently than it does now. When everyone follows a script to do every single thing, the game plays completely differently.
It's a feature *in* the game, not *of* the game. It's not something that's fully in the game dev's control
It's more in control than it isn't. The reason shit players demanding BIS carries are able to do such is because of things like phasing and megaservers. Not having a small, tight knit community means people can act like whatever they want and get away with it. Remove that element and see how quickly it reverses. Blizzard simply doesn't care to address it.
Phasing has literally nothing to do with people pugging you stupid Black person
It's only shit players complaining about others not inviting them to groups, the good players invite each other.
This is cope speak. You're missing the point, too. It's not about pugging, or gatekeeping, or anything. It's about how utterly unnecessary it is to do such. You can carry half a group of morons through BFD as it is now and still clear, yet people demand otherwise because they get away with it. Thing is, they're not "better" players in almost every case. They've spent the time to get better gear, certainly, but they're probably equally as shit.
You used to invite people that were more fun to play with. You don't know this. You are a zoomer. You will literally never believe this because you never got a chance to see it.
We still cleared, pugging and all, 20 years ago, and we didn't have to take the annoying shitheads to do it. The only reason you personally get away with acting like an ultrahomosexual in game is because nothing ever sticks to your name like it would have 20 years ago with smaller servers.
MMOs were always better when it was just an autistic hang out with other morons instead of everyone pretending they were trying out for a raiding esports team
i miss when damage meters didnt exist in everything
i dont even play dps anymore because of it, its just not fun to constantly feel like im being judged by everyone and under stress even in casual shit
I would love to see the timeline where they tried to keep third party forums verboten and merged servers to keep the community concentrated much earlier. The day people stopped using realm forums in favor of MMO champ and reddit is the day the game began to lose a very important aspect. It's way too late to fix now.
>There are still plenty of ugly casual girls on retail too
cool it with the transphobic remarks, also
>None of those are game features
that's the point
>mid 2000s era gamers
When they did classic back in 2019, this is when I realized that no matter what they did or could have done, you weren't ever going to get that comfy feeling of MMOs again. This pretty much applies to all other games too, not just WoW.
>but replaying it in Classic made me realize it's everything that went wrong with WoW
yes, playing original wow then playing classic wow is what made me realize Wotlk is where the fanbase went to complete shit and the game could never recover
>classic tbc or classic vanilla? If anything classic wotlk is superior than both of them
>classic classic classic
The main source of information on items was wrong about a ton of them for literal years in 2004-2007. It wasn't until wowhead started datamining fully much later that you could trust anything on them fully. This is a fact and no zoomer gaslighting will change it.
That's how I felt about BC, then I realized it might be the most bare bones expansion of all.
Playing through BC Classic was the biggest vidya wake up call I've ever got. I remember it being an amazing victory lap of the original game but so many systems and design-philosophy I hate in the modern game are present in BC, on top of the world being thrown together with absolutely no cohesion or artistic thought whatsoever. It's cack.
yep vanilla was peak kino
this looks cool, wasit gud?
2019 was still fun and better than retail but I agree. the problem is when you play as an adult you minmaxx and try to optimaze your playtime.
As a kid you play more casually and there is a sense of wonder and mistery. i remember my first character took me 30 play days yo reach max level, in 2019 it took me 8 and I actually finished all dungeons...
True. Both quality and subscriber numbers went down afterwards.
subs plateaued in wrath
>villian shows every 5 quests and does nothing
>kills you at the end
>but GOOD MUST ALWAYS WIN
>wintersgrasp was ruined adding player limits IN A FRICKING MMORPG
>missing the whole underground zone thats bigger than northrend itself
na frick off
all i ever did in wintergrasp was fish
i know . i reported the same bot for months in the same lake just when i arrived to start botting
Most memorable wintergrasp I did was full raid of horde Vs a single gnome DK, he had the outnumbered buff stacked so high he was unkillable and oneshot anyone he touched, but with enough cc and distractions we could pull him away from objectives long enough.
>only one offhand reference to ner'zhul even existing in the entire expansion
>alliance only
>every five seconds it's ARTHAAS
I get Arthas was interesting but WC3 ended with "now, we are one" not "hat get"
>gearscore crap
your shit expansion ruined the genre
OP here, pic unrelated btw
I'LL GET YOU NEXT TIME GADGET
For me, it's when he walks in on your duel with his servant, watches you win, then tells you "ok but next time you won't win" and goes away
It was rife
>forsaken ambush everyone at the wrathgate
>blight is so devastating that even the lich king has to retreat from it
>rebel forsaken immediately go sit in under city and wait to die
>both factions wade through oceans of the blight like it's nothing in the process of killing them
>forsaken plot just ends there, it's paladins and death Knights all the way down for the rest of the expansion
for me its
>building a literal circus in his backyard
>technical limirations are the only reason it wasn't in the front yard (crystalsong)
>killing each other for shits and giggles while he does nothing
>instead of sending half of his army to wipe the floor with us he sends a few clowns to job for our amusement
>surprise there are nerubians beneath. Just like fricking icecrown leveling quests
Either that or Dr*kuru
>We go from fighting a literal god
>And a literal avatar of the gods that can destroy the entire planet
>NEXT RAID TIER
>....fight a frickin yeti
goddamn what was blizz thinking with TOC
Plus it came out only 4 months after Ulduar, which cut its life short. And then you had the extremely long content drought after ICC. They could have easily delayed ToC for another 2 months to give the expansion time to cook. Many people complained that it came out too soon and made Ulduar obsolete.
limirations are the only reason it wasn't in the front yard (crystalsong)
That was just a lie, Azjol'Nerub zone and Crystalsong Forest quests got the cut due to time constraints.
The November 2008 launch was harsh when TBC just launched in early 2007.
I thought this shit was so cool back when I was 10
I did too.
Arthas was like a corny anime villain and I loved it.
Enter.
>Themepark
>Peak MMO
lmao
Space and all things to do with space are Reddit.
But you are living on a planet that is in space
Sorry, Reddit, space isn't real.
What do you call all that emptiness in your head then?
Free real estate.
I wish wrathboomers would just shut up already
for me it was Ragnarok Online, I've never seen any other MMO with such a wide variety of builds per class (that actually feel different from one another); and that each shines in a niche.
My homie. The sourcecode was leaked and the game was datamined to hell and back, but nobody even GameFAQs could tell what was the "optimal" build of each class back in the day.
you misspelled FFXI
It was the beginning of the end.
The story and quests were good but nothing else was. After ulduar it became a slog. And then came the ilvl and achievement checks to do literally anything.
If you didn't have a guild of friends you had the noobtards pretending to be competitive.
It wad also peak lazy design as healing and tanking was op.
BC was the beginning of the end. Wrath of the Casuals solidified it. Cata was pretty much when anyone with any senses quit playing and the community as a whole was largely insufferable at this point.
iirc it was common knowledge at this point the original 4mil who played during vanilla were long gone by the end of Wrath probably before. I know all my friends were gone by the time Trials was released.
I still think Ulduar was where Blizzard peaked with raids
It really was.
I meant after ulduar it was the decline.
A raid boss having different modes in the way you fought it was peak design.
>A raid boss having different modes in the way you fought it was peak design.
Yeah mechanically unlocking the hard mode of a boss will always be way more enjoyable than just a "heroic" raid toggle. Shit is so souless
Except Ulduar didn't have a single good fight
Don't kill some trash in the corner isn't interesting in the slightest
>You might not like it
Correct
>this is peak MMO design
Wrong
It was the best expansion overall but frick leveling gear, frick dailies and most of all frick death knights.
It was so bad that it made me quit WoW until Legion
>guild lasts from 2019 to wotlk launch
>Everyone quits after the first few ulduar clears
>Guild disbanded
Wrath sucks, we're all back on sod now though.
But that's just Wrath in vanilla zones
Yeah that's the thing wrathbabby, the best part about vanilla is the zones, the world matters and everyone is out in it.
The phasing they just released destroyed that, you're playing solo Wrath in vanilla zones. It's nothing like vanilla in any way. Not even the client feels the same, the core gameplay itself.
No it's not. It changed major systems every patch and the content is extremely uneven. The incompetence and greed of blizzard despite having such a lucrative game is insane when you think about it.
If you didn't level a character to 55, kill it and delete it, then make a Death Knight of the same name and race, you didn't beat the game.
You'd have to wait a month for the name to become available though. Characters that high level "reserve" the name for a certain amount of time
What comes to wotlk, classic reminded me never to believe what boomers say. They have been wrong and continue to be wrong
>boring quest hubs
>zero grinding
>piss easy raids
>instances
>zero socialization
nah
Wrath was the peak of MMO design, and unfortunately doubling down on everything that took away the social aspect of the game during it was what killed WoW
>gearscore
>the rise of gdkps
>legendaries every raid
>reusing content with bigger numbers
take off the glasses
>my favourite MMO is the best MMO. Everything else is garbage lol
Let's hit bump limit again, guys.
Anything else is uncivilized.
My brother in arms.
Have we come full circle to Cata being remembered fondly yet, or will the classic realms be dead on arrival?
I don't think I've ever met anyone nostalgic for Cata or thinking that it was their favorite expac. I didn't mind Cata all that much but it always felt pretty middle of the road as far as content went for WoW
I've known a few people who were deep into that shit back in the day and would probably jizz over doing Firelands again.
If raiding is all you give a shit about I can kind of understand it, sans the last tier obviously.
classic mazies are already coping and saying that it's better than wrath to hype it up
lmao
You already have people starting to look forward to cata because of them being disappointed in how TBC and WOTLK classic turned out because of how easy the raiding was.
At this point, one has to wonder why they don't just bother with retail raiding if that was their angle all along.
>Firelands
I guess that's a good point. I kind of hated Dragon Soul so it sours my opinion on a lot of Cata
As somebody who didn't completely hate Cata (I liked Firelands and fondly remember the PvP) it will be DoA. SoM is more to classicgay tastes. An active sub is an active sub so I don't think Blizzard will care too much.
>SoM
SoD, my bad. The people who don't like SoD will kill HLK once if they haven't already, then probably uninstall WoW for good.
>vanilla zones fricked and changed forever and only SLIGHTLY unfricked nearly a decade later by bronze dragons taking us back in time
>the new music, while not bad, sucks in comparison to the vanilla music
>dungeons and raids are good until too many casual morons cry that they're too hard, when they were in fact not
>only cool thing about cata was deathwing flying through every zone and murdering everyone, but that had to be removed because morons hate fun and cool things, looking at you fricking Black folk that cried about the woltk prelaunch event
>all cata zones suck ass with the only exception being the underground zone
>was the start of the OLD GODS OLD GODS HAHA OLD GODS shit even though ulduar was the catalyst for that
>that's not even touching upon the further lore rapes, desecration of all the comfy zones and quests in favor of le funny may mays and epic references to pop culture when they were mostly in the background in vanilla, tbc, and wotlk, the end of wrath again funny enough being the catalyst
cata was shit back then and it's still shit
and raids are good until too many casual morons cry that they're too hard, when they were in fact not
I blame WotLK for this too.
Piss easy heroics really spoiled the playerbase. Trash packs having actual mechanics that made you have to think for a second instead of mindlessly AOEing them down alone was enough to absolutely mindbreak people.
My main complaint about Cata heroics is that they took away all of my fun spells as a healer. I went from having a variety of spells meant for different kinds of healing situations, to being stuck just casting "Heal" over and over if I didn't want to run out of mana. That, plus other players didn't understand that I needed to drink to recover mana between pulls, but this is related to the Wrath mindset you mentioned.
>cata pre-patch
>see the Skywall dungeons floating in the distance over Uldum from Tanaris, feel excited to finally get to go there
>actually questing in Uldum weeks later
>Literally no mention of actual gameplay
Every time, just say you got bodied by Halfus and rage quit, we all know the truth
shut the frick up and reread my post you stupid cata Black person
Yeah and thats the problem, the genre never evolved past that point.
nope lineage 2 in 2004 was peak mmo
This piece of shit expansion killed MMOs. Raid difficulty modes was the worst thing to ever happen to pve MMO content. There's like 10 other similar things in the form of gatekeeping the MMO environment the game selfishly tore down to prop up it's short term metrics. You can't scrub the stain this expac created out and it's lingered in the form of player entitlement ever since. It nuked the genre. Frick it forever.
I think M+ and Blizzards pursue of it killed WoW, or rather turned into the shit it is now. Raid difficulties weren't bad backthen. Split IDs would allow you to do comfy 10-man heroic runs with your guild.
>Split IDs would allow you to do comfy 10-man heroic runs with your guild.
Depends on the guild. I remember kind of hating that shit because there were some pieces (like trinkets) that were still really good even from the lower ilevel. So you were kind of expected to almost double raid until you got a few of your pieces and then it created some random drama as well with people being pissed they were excluded from the smaller groups and ended up with a few additional cliques forming.
What's wrong with M+? I'm not informed much about it since I never played when it was introduced.
It turns even the most shit, green-parsing wannabe into some hyper "competitive" monkey, who follows the meta to the end. I've tanked s1 up to KMS and I didn't enjoy even a second of it, I sometimes ask myself why I did that in the first place.
The timer, the score and all that shit brings and forces out the most shit behavior from someone. It got worse over the years.
I'm not that guy but adding a timer to anything I'm doing to chill (PvE) makes it instantly unfun to me.
It also imported the kind of attitude/culture I remember hating about League of Legends when it started to get big. You would queue up for a game, not talk to anybody unless it was to call them a homosexual or whatever, and be done in 20-30 mins only to throw yourself back in queue (or LFG, in M+'s case). People who play online games with other people and don't WANT the social aspect of the game took over how online games are designed.
The social aspect of WoW was guild drama, powertripping guild leader tyrants, guild leader gfs, women in general, constant high school bullshit, insufferable incorrect memes and absolutely deliberate lore ignorance.
There was never a social benefit to WoW, Warcraft 3: RoC was always a more civil game that fostered a more mature and good-natured community.
>guild leader gfs, women in general
I could give you a countdown(in weeks) about how long it will take until the guild disbanded whenever a woman reaches officer status. I was in three guilds during Wrath+Cata where my bros and I invested solid time in those, and all three got disbanded because of some chick chat-fricking the GM.
Most of the prostitutes causing drama in my WoW life were later revealed to be men LARPing for special treatment. There was one (1) instance where pussy pics confirmed otherwise, but in general I think a lot of those stories are girl(male) driven.
I also have a funny story about how a guy (shaman) in my old Horde guild got cucked through WoW and the girl (hunter) and guy she left with (warrior) are happily married with children years later, lol.
The two actual girls I did know were fine, oddly enough. One loved to fish and was an AH goblin and the other would start arguments in trade and then log off which I also started to do.
When the game's victory condition (getting all the loot from all the raids for free) is granted by playing the "social game", why would anyone willingly play the inferior class MALE instead of the superior class FEMALE with massive advantages and no accountability?
That's social gaming for you, buddy. Aren't you so fricking happy that World of Warcraft is a social game!?
The best WoW expansions were the ones I played and the worst ones were the ones that I didn't play.
facts and hell yeah
>peak mmo design
Literally who cares
>get max level
>now you do only do the same daily dungeons for 1 piece of gear
>when get them now you do dungeon every week for 1 piece of gear
Oh boi i cant w8 to pay blizzard real money so i can go on my daily weekly job.
Honestly surprised even after Classic Wrath's launch people praise this mid unfinished expansion
A lot of it's flaws come from TBC though, Wrath just made it worse
But that's not Lineage 2 C4.
all I ever did in WOW was level new characters. I'd get to level 80. do some dungeons and gear up, then when it came time to have to talk to actually have to talk to people and raid I got bored and started a new toon. Ieveled every single class to 80
Is it really?
Because I'm playing it now as a hunter to do some solo stuff and it does seem more fun than vanilla