Anyone remember the Joel Steudler custom campaigns for Starcraft 1? They were awesome. He even did a custom opening cinematic.
https://lotc.fandom.com/wiki/LotC:_Fallen_Angel_(StarCraft:_Original)
https://www.campaigncreations.org/starcraft/legacy_of_the_confederation/past_purposes
https://www.campaigncreations.org/starcraft/legacy_of_the_confederation/dawn_of_darkness
The sc2 zerg campaign? That is worse than dogshit in every way. Story, characters, level design, etc. It forced an OP hero unit and your army was worthless in comparison, including how you chose to upgrade it. It was made during peak dota seethe by blizzard. Only the epilogue is worse.
3>4>5>2>1>6
I love fighting for Aiur missions. Shame that story about it went so moronic there but opening was very atmospheric. +For UED, i like their story
Okay, I think Broodwar Protoss is worst just due to the story being about Artanis acting as Shakuras janny on a quest for shiny rocks. Original zerg is also kinda shit. Others are all good. I'll just say 3>5>6>1>2>4, but the first four can be a toss-up. I guess 1 was a piece of shit because Terrans are insufferable to play at times, but the story carries it. Meanwhile 5 had a really good story and less shit Terrans. 3 was really fun because Protoss are so different and the end is nice. 6 might take the cake, but some of the missions are just pure fricking cancer (Overmind and that random ZvZ one that has you kill scientists).
I like Broodwar Protoss because you can't just Carrier and Archon spam to win except for the very final level. My only beef with it is the Artanis space platform level is way too long and tedious.
UED is fricking based even if DuGalle turning on Stukov is badly presented (though well voice acted).
>Can't carrier spam >But you can Scout spam from moment one and its even more powerful than Carriers
Granted, Terran is just BC spam and Zerg is Muta+Brood+Devourer
>. Original zerg is also kinda shit.
Original zerg made way too little sense, you spend half of it babysitting kerrigan only for her to become irrelevant anyway, then it ends with overmind prematurely manifesting thereby ensuring his defeat.
>prematurely manifesting
what would be the mature time to manifest? After total annihilation of all protoss and terrans? Does mold wait for you to move out of the house before it spreads and fricks up your food?
Keep in mind there wasn't any other way to destroy the Overmind, they had to perform a kamikaze strike fueled by the strongest templar in the universe and all his psionic force. >only for her to become irrelevant anyway
oh come the frick on, she's the central plot point of all 3 expansion campaigns. The original campaign is kerrigan's origin story, brood war is her rise to power.
it always bugged me that kerrigan, who is seemingly so powerful psionic that confederacy had to readjust their psionic evaluation scale just to measure her potential, somehow hangs out with rebel group and confederacy isnt bothered with that at all, instead of you know, making her elimination high priority (killing mengsk/Sons of korhal being good bonus for them as well).story in sc1/pre brood war gives me vibe that she was powerful/skilled ghost, but still just regular ghost in grand scheme of things and all power wanks comes from books/other sources. (i dont have such problem with infested kerrigan as its reasonable that if theyre gonna infest her might as well add some upgrades regarding said psionic powers).
i also bit annoyed how they explained in books why raynor is such powerhouse compared to regular marines (while for all intents and purposes being just regular marine/dude in story) as being ex special forces war hero/ex deserter and criminal instead of being regular guy cough in events way bigger then he is. (although dialogue in ep1 suggest me that literally EVERYONE in story was some kind of veteran from previous wars so i give it a pass)
she didn't "hang out" with rebels, she deserted confederacy and Mengsk supposedly saved her life. >making her elimination high priority
you mean like mengsk and raynor? Confederacy is filled with incompetent inbred pencil pushers, every human colony has their own government, goals and resources. What makes you think they have the capability of hunting down stray rebel leaders? Duke is supposedly leading the most elite ALPHA SQUADRON and he jobs hard throughout the entire campaign, getting btfo'd by some minor irrelevant zerg brood. There's no Boba Fett in starcraft to send after the main characters
Duran was sent to kill Stukov, but he did it with the support and transport of UED forces
Nova was a vaporware character until they made her canon and relevant in SC2, and yes, she could work as a bounty hunter assassin. Sadly the plot is shit in SC2
i know that confederacy was on its last legs but it seems stupid that didnt deployed some elite ghosts to terminate kerrigan (highly psionic ghost) or mengsk (rebel who gains more and more supporters in outer systems) but i think you might have a point that confederacy was on last legs AND incredible incompetent to do something even if they wanted too.
There is Nova who can act like an assassin/bounty hunter
I suppose Samir Duran would kind of fit the bill
yeah, at start of ep 1 there should have been more nova/kerrigan tier in ghost corps that could've taken out kerrigan/mengsk
>what would be the mature time to manifest?
After beating the toss enough to make sure he didn't get beaten back. He's already aware that there are dark templar around who are capable of killing cerebrates and giving him a seizure in the process. Risking falling into the hands of the protoss was pretty reckless.
>oh come the frick on, she's the central plot point of all 3 expansion campaigns
Sure, in the expansion. Meanwhile in the original story it's a bunch of buildup with no payoff. I mean, it could have been any other story with the same outcome: Overmind drops it like a rock the moment he finds out where aiur is.
Because hes making like 3 dollars to play a 20 second TTS message several times an hour? God bless the literal morons who are amused by that shit though. I used to watch forsen back when he played miracle rogue but hearing that shit makes me feel like I'm going to have an aneurysm now
trinidad and tobago tomato tomato trinidad and tobago tomato potato trinidad and tobago tomato tomato trinidad and tobago tomato potato trinidad and tobago tomato tomato trinidad and tobago tomato potato trinidad and tobago tomato tomato trinidad and tobago tomato potato trinidad and tobago tomato tomato trinidad and tobago tomato potato trinidad and tobago tomato tomato trinidad and tobago tomato potato trinidad and tobago tomato tomato trinidad and tobago tomato potato trinidad and tobago tomato tomato trinidad and tobago tomato potato trinidad and tobago tomato tomato trinidad and tobago tomato potato trinidad and tobago tomato tomato trinidad and tobago tomato potato trinidad and tobago tomato tomato trinidad and tobago tomato potato trinidad and tobago tomato tomato trinidad and tobago tomato potato trinidad and tobago tomato tomato trinidad and tobago tomato potato trinidad and tobago tomato tomato trinidad and tobago tomato potato trinidad and tobago tomato tomato trinidad and tobago tomato potato trinidad and tobago tomato tomato trinidad and tobago tomato potato
I just played through all 6 again after like 15 years. The first three were a slog, but then there's a huge jump in quality in BW. It's as if they suddenly decided to do some actual level design. Even steered away from the oversimplified plot and did a lot more with the characters.
6>4>5>3>2>1
I liked episode 3 but wish terrans were more present there. At one point you encounter a battlecruiser and 10 wraiths, that's the entire terran forces you face in the whole episode
Why Raynor in coop spams marines like crazy? Wasn't in story his faction was basically 1 battlectuise full of veterans? And yet in coop he spams them like he's freaking mengsk with whole dominion worth of expendable troops? >Inb4 it's not sc1 related
Didn't wanted to create new thread + Jim in sc1 is same as sc2, as in 1 ship full of badass dudes.
Also. Why aldaris and conclave were so moronic?
And how the frick kerrigan mind controlled freaking matriarch (whilos like thousand years protoss and in theory should be way more refined and mastered spionics compared to kerrigan who became protoss tier spionic recently)
Raynor was one of the first commanders when co-op had different standards and a different target audience. He plays more like ladder terran than any other because of that, for better and for worse (most of it is for worse). Mengsk was released like 5 years after Raynor and is basically a developer response to how shitty/boring Raynor is and how cool he could be. The same thing could be said for Han and Horner, which Mengsk also mogs with many of the same mechanics and playstyles but just way better.
>Why aldaris and conclave were so moronic?
Were they? In mission 2 Tassadar tells us to just go and assasinate cerebrates knowing damn well we can't since we don't have dark templars with us. At that point of the story Aldaris was already suspicious of Tassadar because he just cut all contact with Aiur. Despite that he still decided to go along with the assasination plan. The conclave didn't take any actions to stop Tassadar until his plan backfired and got Fenix killed for no reason and at that point it was reasonable for them to think he's up to something stupid and they should stop him.
Makes sense, as mengsk is THE EMPEROR of TERRAN DOMINION, not some rebel jimbo or merc bosslady
Was meant for
Raynor was one of the first commanders when co-op had different standards and a different target audience. He plays more like ladder terran than any other because of that, for better and for worse (most of it is for worse). Mengsk was released like 5 years after Raynor and is basically a developer response to how shitty/boring Raynor is and how cool he could be. The same thing could be said for Han and Horner, which Mengsk also mogs with many of the same mechanics and playstyles but just way better.
Raynor was one of the first commanders when co-op had different standards and a different target audience. He plays more like ladder terran than any other because of that, for better and for worse (most of it is for worse). Mengsk was released like 5 years after Raynor and is basically a developer response to how shitty/boring Raynor is and how cool he could be. The same thing could be said for Han and Horner, which Mengsk also mogs with many of the same mechanics and playstyles but just way better.
Give raynor tech reactors too so he doesn't have to build 12 production structures every single game. There's no reason swann should only get them. He would be really fun and streamlined with that, and his early game wouldn't be complete cancer especially with b+ or higher and weekly mutations.
Raynor/Kerrigan/Artanis are proxies of campaign gameplay, and they are OK if you go play with them understanding this, and while they feel very basic compared to other commanders, all 3 have great ways of staying in fight and bringing in reinforcements fast. imo they are well balanced as they are now and are great approximations of campaign gameplay
Most of the commanders have heavy influence from the campaigns, that's not a reason or an excuse. Kerrigan is considered the best f2p commander and is pretty good overall where she can do very well against mutators and weekly mutations, no problems there. Artanis is both noob friendly (unlike Raynor despite him being advertised that) and robust, he's typically on the lower end of commander rankings but he has his niches and is fun to play especially with the arkship commandant prestige dropping super archons everywhere.
It's just Raynor. He sucks, he's hard to play, he's very punishing, he's slow to ramp up, his detection is frustrating, he's a trap for most people new to co-op. You could still keep his core playstyle if you just tweaked a few things to speed up his early game and made his macro easier. Just having to look at your base for 2 seconds to drop mules can lose your entire army on mutators like going nuclear.
the free commanders could use some redesign and buffs; both to their core gameplay and units as well as their prestiges.
mostly raynor, a bit less artanis, and least of all three kerrigan. kerrigan's only "issue" is lack of truly compelling spread creep outside the worms for p1. but overall she has a decent if boring macro army and good mastery set to support it.
the real fricking question is why doesnt artanis have scouts/arbiters/carriers/motherships or even corsairs/voidrays whereas fenix and karax have carriers, fenix has scouts and vorazun voidrays. or invisible melee assassin from the gateway or even a sentry like unit
P1 Kerrigan is the worst, it has uses like lurker defense on dead of night and for hydralisks against missile command but other commanders are always better for that kind of thing. Her p1 is the noob prestige that many people on random queue use despite them being terrible at creep spread, I swear half of them don't even make queens. It also doesn't help her air. Still Kerrigan is good and any prestige is fine.
Artanis is my favorite of the free, specifically p3. His ground army lacks aoe with zealots being a shitty mineral dump that just die (especially on p3). Reavers are all he has and they kind of suck and take a while to tech to, but they do get the job done on infested maps. Immortals really aren't much better than dragoons at all. I agree his air units are shit and literally deleting his stargate would improve him for half of the Artanis players on random queue. Phoenixes are too frail even with guardian shell and can't lift the units you actually want lifted, their dps is shit too. Tempests are another noob trap that have only meme niches done better by other commanders. It'd be nice if he got something hitscan especially for antiair for missile command and zerg air, maybe scouts would be nice for that even though technically their hitscan attack is antiground. I hate having to make high templar to storm zerg air, they suck so much even on p1.
Raynor's shit. Little things like giving him tech reactors, his bunkers starting with 6 capacity, and having all of his CCs start as orbitals including the one he spawns with (even if they have to start with 0 energy) would help him so much. The latter would be great to teach noobs that orbitals are really good, since many Raynors never make them.
But none of this matters when all of them are stuck at level 5 for a week every game update because Blizzard is incompetent and their offices are empty. Maybe the AI and pajeet customer support will fix it one day.
hey so I just saw your effort response
I think it's rather bad that so many p1 prestiges are either noob traps or straight out bad
For example, artanis p2 is the most interesting but he is only really able to warp in and out through the call down warp field which costs 25 energy each time (what no mothership does to a mf)
I also think it's absurd that for a prestige meant to augment unit abilities p1 makes them cost 30 fricking percent more, on a very resource starved macro commander to boot too (lmao)
It would make more sense to make artanis p1 units cheaper and faster to tech into (think kerrigan masteries set as a comparison) and maybe take off guardian shell from that prestige
Instead p3 should work with a charge system with lower cooldowns on your energy based weapons from spear of adun, with increased energy. However, it is this prestige that should suffer a slight price increase while having guardian shell apply only to your own units instead of your allies (reverse situation of p1)
And for god's sake, expand the unit roster on most macro commanders especially the f2p
All of these are a pipe dream but it's infuriating to have raynor and mengsk in the same game with h&h existing as a middle ground
4 months ago
Anonymous
The p2 warp field used to only cost 10 energy but got nerfed because it was too "overpowered." (Similarly Raynor used to have double mules instead of armor increasing unit hp, although that was kind of degenerate since it encouraged mining out the map with a billion marines, barracks, and CCs.) I don't think p2 Artanis is even that good in theory since faster attack speed from the mastery doesn't help projectile based attacks much due to overkill. If you were massing immortals against ground comps then it would be based I guess.
P1 issue is it buffs zealots and HT the most, but zealot/HT is p0's weakest comp and like you said it takes forever to get all of the HT upgrades and finally make a few of them. Some mutators like evasive maneuvers completely shut it down too. P1 is bad because dragoons get no buff at all, and other unit buffs are trash. Immortals are only tankier, phoenix pickup cooldown is halved but most fights will be over before you can use it again, tempest damage over time is doubled but who cares, etc. Reavers with the full energy cooldown mastery don't need the prestige buff for faster reaver production either, they almost always have enough on p0/p3.
I like p3 the most because it gives the player more choices in how to approach the game so more fun, and guardian shell just doesn't help much against many mutators. And like p2 it can project power across the map even if your army is out of position. It also lets you fast expand on nearly every map with the starting adun energy mastery.
It's nice you noticed the similarities between Mengsk and HH/Raynor. Mengsk was literally developed in response to the co-op devs noticing how shit the others are. His units, topbars, and prestiges are just Raynor/HH strategies but better. >troopers/marines, including orbital drop >bunkers >royal guard/horner units >han death abilities and his p3 >ESOs and strike fighters
Still can't play Artanis because he's level 5 btw.
4 months ago
Anonymous
you can still mine maps with high number of cc though. I am also mad that specifically the three f2p commanders are mostly macro focused and based on campaigns and generic but they also have a rather lackluster unit
ie no "frontline"/fighter unit from factory for raynor, lack of mobile detection, lack of medivacs (FRICKING MENGSK HAS THEM FFS) shitty medics and overall masteries and lvl bonuses are just hp and attack speed bonus which arent bad, p2 raynor has silly attack speed mechs to be fair (p2 should give afterburners automatically as raynor gives stimpack automatically)
Medics cost 75m 50g 2pop for some goddamn reason instead of 50m 25g 1pop (they are over half the cost of a medivac and the same pop to boot, the absolute state)
Commanders like stettman get all the great units (endlessly spamming infestors, immortal lings and ultralisks) while with raynor you have 149hp marines if you go p1. Just kek. the best way to play p1 is usually to open barracks then add starport later on to use your gas slowly replacing most mineral heavy units with bcs primarily
4 months ago
Anonymous
The p2 warp field used to only cost 10 energy but got nerfed because it was too "overpowered." (Similarly Raynor used to have double mules instead of armor increasing unit hp, although that was kind of degenerate since it encouraged mining out the map with a billion marines, barracks, and CCs.) I don't think p2 Artanis is even that good in theory since faster attack speed from the mastery doesn't help projectile based attacks much due to overkill. If you were massing immortals against ground comps then it would be based I guess.
P1 issue is it buffs zealots and HT the most, but zealot/HT is p0's weakest comp and like you said it takes forever to get all of the HT upgrades and finally make a few of them. Some mutators like evasive maneuvers completely shut it down too. P1 is bad because dragoons get no buff at all, and other unit buffs are trash. Immortals are only tankier, phoenix pickup cooldown is halved but most fights will be over before you can use it again, tempest damage over time is doubled but who cares, etc. Reavers with the full energy cooldown mastery don't need the prestige buff for faster reaver production either, they almost always have enough on p0/p3.
I like p3 the most because it gives the player more choices in how to approach the game so more fun, and guardian shell just doesn't help much against many mutators. And like p2 it can project power across the map even if your army is out of position. It also lets you fast expand on nearly every map with the starting adun energy mastery.
It's nice you noticed the similarities between Mengsk and HH/Raynor. Mengsk was literally developed in response to the co-op devs noticing how shit the others are. His units, topbars, and prestiges are just Raynor/HH strategies but better. >troopers/marines, including orbital drop >bunkers >royal guard/horner units >han death abilities and his p3 >ESOs and strike fighters
Still can't play Artanis because he's level 5 btw.
also: dragoons are the worst shooty/2pop ranged unit by far; stalkers would have been better even if your micro is shitty, a blink once 10secs would be invaluable, guardian shell is way too nerfed and its mastery is laughable (+15per cent more regn for 30pts wowzers!)
Artanis when non p3 is way too reliant on spamming his orbital strikes and often enough ends up with less energy with worse results,
hts still suck even with full upgrades: storms cant damage enemy buildings nor can they refresh your own building's shields (why? it's not as if artanis would be a defense monster with it when storm costs 75 energy on a 200gas unit)
As a f2p guy, kerrigan is generally the main go to pick who is overall far more solid and reliable due to strong hero and strong support masteries
4 months ago
Anonymous
[...]
also: dragoons are the worst shooty/2pop ranged unit by far; stalkers would have been better even if your micro is shitty, a blink once 10secs would be invaluable, guardian shell is way too nerfed and its mastery is laughable (+15per cent more regn for 30pts wowzers!)
Artanis when non p3 is way too reliant on spamming his orbital strikes and often enough ends up with less energy with worse results,
hts still suck even with full upgrades: storms cant damage enemy buildings nor can they refresh your own building's shields (why? it's not as if artanis would be a defense monster with it when storm costs 75 energy on a 200gas unit)
As a f2p guy, kerrigan is generally the main go to pick who is overall far more solid and reliable due to strong hero and strong support masteries
The p2 warp field used to only cost 10 energy but got nerfed because it was too "overpowered." (Similarly Raynor used to have double mules instead of armor increasing unit hp, although that was kind of degenerate since it encouraged mining out the map with a billion marines, barracks, and CCs.) I don't think p2 Artanis is even that good in theory since faster attack speed from the mastery doesn't help projectile based attacks much due to overkill. If you were massing immortals against ground comps then it would be based I guess.
P1 issue is it buffs zealots and HT the most, but zealot/HT is p0's weakest comp and like you said it takes forever to get all of the HT upgrades and finally make a few of them. Some mutators like evasive maneuvers completely shut it down too. P1 is bad because dragoons get no buff at all, and other unit buffs are trash. Immortals are only tankier, phoenix pickup cooldown is halved but most fights will be over before you can use it again, tempest damage over time is doubled but who cares, etc. Reavers with the full energy cooldown mastery don't need the prestige buff for faster reaver production either, they almost always have enough on p0/p3.
I like p3 the most because it gives the player more choices in how to approach the game so more fun, and guardian shell just doesn't help much against many mutators. And like p2 it can project power across the map even if your army is out of position. It also lets you fast expand on nearly every map with the starting adun energy mastery.
It's nice you noticed the similarities between Mengsk and HH/Raynor. Mengsk was literally developed in response to the co-op devs noticing how shit the others are. His units, topbars, and prestiges are just Raynor/HH strategies but better. >troopers/marines, including orbital drop >bunkers >royal guard/horner units >han death abilities and his p3 >ESOs and strike fighters
Still can't play Artanis because he's level 5 btw.
finally, for artanis, a charge system on some of his top bar with improved base energy regen would be a lot better (a charge system for p2 warp for example would ensure you would be "forced" to use it a bit more proactively than just camping for 10+mins then only use it in very small bursts to snipe objectives/enemy waves while giving it an energy cost reduction and a buff to energy regen as well)
Terran 1 was cool as a child but its very easy and the winning strat is always super fricking boring, the only cool mission is the one with Duke on the Platform
- music is great though
Zerg 2 is also boring as frick, but at least controlling zerg units is more fun and Kerrigan's PsiStorm and cloak with consume is based
- the theme is really badass, every building being guts and gore is amazing
- guardians are very satisfying against AI
Protoss 3 has lots of very interesting units and mechanics, great hero units, far cooler mission design and the finale with Raynor and Tassadar is cool as frick
Protoss 4 is unbelievably boring, all of the missions are just braindead easy, the objectives are either sitting on your ass and macroing up one big army which then insta wipes the enemy, or you sniping one objective. At least the final mission is cool.
Terran 5 is very good since you have such a variety of creative mission designs, some of the missions are quite tough and they all implement terrain in an interesting way. A shame the final mission gave you access to battlecruisers, otherwise it would've been very interesting.
Zerg 6 has the highest difficulty which by itself makes it interesting. To Slay The Beast and OMEGA are some of my favourite missions. I like how you're forced into using mixed unit comps unlike with the toss and terran campaigns where you just macro tanks/goliaths/dragoons/zealots or capital ships. Hydra Ling Guardian is cool as frick to macro and micro and difficult even as an adult.
Terran 1 is cool as frick, your character being the Magistrate and having an actual character is great
Zerg 2 is also cool as frick, "awaken my child and embrace the glory that is your birthright" - probably the sickest shit in the whole series, the cerebrates are cool and so is kerrigan, the whole perspective of controlling the disgusting hiveminded aliens you've been slaughtering in the terrain campaign and learning they've got a deity-like consciousness and multiple independently thinking bosses is great.
Protoss 3 is also cool as frick, the hero units are all incredibly voice acted and characterised. Terran and Zerg were cool too, but the gritty space warriors who go back into battle even after they've been gimped in mecha-spiders is based as frick. Fenix, Tassadar, Zeratul were just based. I like how little the game tells you about protoss before you get to play as them and I like how you get to see them first from a moment of desperation.
Protoss 4 is likewise really fricking cool, Artanis takes up a little too much screentime but the story really picks up, the permanent cycles of backstabbing via Kerrigan really complicates things. Shakuras was cool and I liked that most missions were building towards the finale with the Temple and the Crystals. Aldaris being moronic is a major complaint of mine though.
Terran 5 is just great, "Earth" Terrans appearing and being this hammer of military might is real good. Unfortunately stukov being moronic and not telling DuGalle about Duran is just really fricking stupid and I don't like stories that need their characters to act moronic for conflict. Taming the Zerg is giga based however.
Zerg 6 is the fricking apex of the story, things get gritty, everyone's getting desperate, betrayals are in overdrive, I think it's a very bold move of Blizzard to make the hiveminded gore-insect alien race come out as the winner.
Overall: 6 = 3 = 2 >= 5 =4 =1
Basically they're all elder god tier.
>I like how little the game tells you about protoss before you get to play as them
This. Whole SC1 is filled with mystery aura. From the intro cinematic and capaign selection screen to the last mission. I love it.
>I think it's a very bold move of Blizzard to make the hiveminded gore-insect alien race come out as the winner.
I was also very shocked by this back when the game dropped (i was about 10 years old). I read somewhere that when they made that decision blizzard thought they were going to be making SC2 very soon therafter so it would be a good way to wet people's appetite, but then warcraft 3 overperformed so they invested everything on WOW.
They did the same with Diablo letting the Wanderer get away with the Soulstone and in 2 having the Worldstone destroyed that kept hell at bay. And ofc in WC3 with Arthas becoming the Lich King. Really bad endings that you should avoid to achieve as player for the gameworlds.
Terran 1 is cool as frick, your character being the Magistrate and having an actual character is great
Zerg 2 is also cool as frick, "awaken my child and embrace the glory that is your birthright" - probably the sickest shit in the whole series, the cerebrates are cool and so is kerrigan, the whole perspective of controlling the disgusting hiveminded aliens you've been slaughtering in the terrain campaign and learning they've got a deity-like consciousness and multiple independently thinking bosses is great.
Protoss 3 is also cool as frick, the hero units are all incredibly voice acted and characterised. Terran and Zerg were cool too, but the gritty space warriors who go back into battle even after they've been gimped in mecha-spiders is based as frick. Fenix, Tassadar, Zeratul were just based. I like how little the game tells you about protoss before you get to play as them and I like how you get to see them first from a moment of desperation.
Protoss 4 is likewise really fricking cool, Artanis takes up a little too much screentime but the story really picks up, the permanent cycles of backstabbing via Kerrigan really complicates things. Shakuras was cool and I liked that most missions were building towards the finale with the Temple and the Crystals. Aldaris being moronic is a major complaint of mine though.
Terran 5 is just great, "Earth" Terrans appearing and being this hammer of military might is real good. Unfortunately stukov being moronic and not telling DuGalle about Duran is just really fricking stupid and I don't like stories that need their characters to act moronic for conflict. Taming the Zerg is giga based however.
Zerg 6 is the fricking apex of the story, things get gritty, everyone's getting desperate, betrayals are in overdrive, I think it's a very bold move of Blizzard to make the hiveminded gore-insect alien race come out as the winner.
Overall: 6 = 3 = 2 >= 5 =4 =1
Basically they're all elder god tier.
Terran 1 had a great narrative
Backwater Station leading into the Desperate Alliance evacuation
Jacobs installation for a small-scale change of pace, and then everything culminating with the psi emitters and intrigue.
Zerg 2 continuing the story of Kerrigan, culminating in zerg 6 and its final mission against all comers for ultimate supremacy.
I'm biased against the Protoss story because I don't find them very interesting. It's the interplay between Terran and Zerg for me. Protest could be stripped from the setting entirely and I couldn't care less.
>he would be fine if he had a raynor hero; his early game is terrible and you gotta go 3-5 orbitals to get your eco going and start raining down troops.
I actually think Raynor would be perfectly balanced if his command centers just built as orbitals, including the one he starts the game with so he can drop a mule at the 0:01 second mark. It would give him the ramp up boost but not be broken like double mules were, his endgame power would still be the same. P0/P2 for proper bio/tank play benefit the most, P3 is already his strongest prestige so doesn't need to benefit as much, and P1 is a shitty prestige for noobs that will be relatively even worse and discourage people from using it. Win-win-win.
Raynor would still have tons of problems like needing to look at his base to macro, poor mobility, and bad answers to baneling/viper and disruptor/reaver comps, so it's not like he would be overpowered.
Give raynor tech reactors too so he doesn't have to build 12 production structures every single game. There's no reason swann should only get them. He would be really fun and streamlined with that, and his early game wouldn't be complete cancer especially with b+ or higher and weekly mutations.
How I see it p1 is early sc1/sons of korhal or early sc2/wol Raynor. He doesn't have much, but his guys have seen a lot of action. P0/P2 is bw era Raynor or end of wol/post wall Raynor. Adaptable, have tools for pretty much any mission. P3 Raynor is lotv, high ranking commander of valerians dominion, so he has access to big fleets /armada of battlecruisers.
I maybe be autistic though as I view all of other commanders prestiges as them bring portrayed at x point in campaign/what ifs scenarios
>gameplay
Z1, T2, T1, P2=Z2, P1 >narrative
Z1, T1, P1, T2, P2=Z2
It's a pretty typical (bad) RTS campaign experience for the time, the base story is mostly decent-great but holy hell is Broodwar moronic.
enjoyed it but i'm just being honest with myself, going on bnet to play UMS was much more fun. Blizzard didnt make a compelling rts campaign until Warcraft III
Correct take. The campaign was never boring, but there were a lot of bullshit missions spread throughout and story McGuffins out of the ass.
It was right at the crosspoint of traditional RTS campaigns that rarely had more than "Kill all enemy doodz!" to them, and later campaigns with competent writing and narrative (Warcraft 3).
enjoyed it but i'm just being honest with myself, going on bnet to play UMS was much more fun. Blizzard didnt make a compelling rts campaign until Warcraft III
Anyone remember the Joel Steudler custom campaigns for Starcraft 1? They were awesome. He even did a custom opening cinematic.
https://lotc.fandom.com/wiki/LotC:_Fallen_Angel_(StarCraft:_Original)
https://www.campaigncreations.org/starcraft/legacy_of_the_confederation/past_purposes
https://www.campaigncreations.org/starcraft/legacy_of_the_confederation/dawn_of_darkness
Brood war and sc1 had a lot of character development and grey morality which is basically the main ingredients you need if your story isnt going to be some cheesy heroez vs bad guyz, save-the-world, michael bay-esque “narrative”. In good stories you are asking yourself a lot “is my character doing the right thing? What does this mean?” They invite contemplation... bad stories just straight up tell you “hey ur a good guy” or “ur a villain in thIs GamE”. No thought needed!
Over the course of sc1 and bw you witness:
Mengsk evolve from freedom fighter to ruthless tyrant concerned only with his own personal power
Kerrigan gradually lose her humanity and become the embodiment of the zerg (unity through conquest).
Reynor go from a man trying to do the right thing to embittered, disillusioned and obsessed with revenge.
Tassadar/aldaris and zeratul overcome a centuries long enmity/prejudice and band together against the zerg.
Brood war in particular had lots of grey morality. Your pov character in each of the campaigns switches sides at least once. You see lots of major characters make “deals with the devil” - the UED trying to use the zerg as attack dogs instead of destroying them, Kerrigan manipulating zeratul and others to do her dirty work for her, etc.
i really wish there were UED commander in coop, especially since bw established UED doctrine of infantry battalions supported by armor and air dominance (marines + medics + tanks, valkyries & battlecruisers)
I really wish there was some kind of "open world/galaxy" 4x game like Stellaris in the SC2 setting, with all the various in-game commanders and characters as subfactions. It could be like like the co-op game-mode where your chosen commander changes and specializes your faction's options and gameplay. Maybe the game could even mix the combat between traditional RTS/basebuilding on planets and space stations, as well as having Stellaris/Sins of A Solar Empire space fleet combat.
The only campaign that I ever felt like replaying was the Zerg one from the baseline. Played it grand total of thrice.
And I don't even remember what was the Terran campaign in BW
it always bugged me that kerrigan, who is seemingly so powerful psionic that confederacy had to readjust their psionic evaluation scale just to measure her potential, somehow hangs out with rebel group and confederacy isnt bothered with that at all, instead of you know, making her elimination high priority (killing mengsk/Sons of korhal being good bonus for them as well).story in sc1/pre brood war gives me vibe that she was powerful/skilled ghost, but still just regular ghost in grand scheme of things and all power wanks comes from books/other sources. (i dont have such problem with infested kerrigan as its reasonable that if theyre gonna infest her might as well add some upgrades regarding said psionic powers).
i also bit annoyed how they explained in books why raynor is such powerhouse compared to regular marines (while for all intents and purposes being just regular marine/dude in story) as being ex special forces war hero/ex deserter and criminal instead of being regular guy cough in events way bigger then he is. (although dialogue in ep1 suggest me that literally EVERYONE in story was some kind of veteran from previous wars so i give it a pass)
Do you have a favourite moment in the Starcraft 1 or Brood War campaign?
It sounds simplistic but I really enjoyed the first Protoss mission and witnessing just how powerful Zealots and Dragoons were when compared to Zerglings and Hydralisks
It really felt like the Protoss units were a cut above everyone else
I love playing as zerg in general. I loved how the overmind felt as this impersonal creature that only cared about conquering the galaxy while his cerebrates were more humanlike in their personalities, with their own wants and needs. I gave a sort of heartless corporation board feel with this old and wise monster at the top of it, and I wonder if that was their initial intention.
Story: 1>3>2>5>6>4
Gameplay: 5>6>2>4>1>3 (frankly 1-3 and 4-6 are mostly equal in their groups, with 4-6 being better than 1-3)
Anyone who geniunely likes the "I le mindcontrolled yuo ally"/sudden moronitis attacks of brood wars' story should kill themselves
I enjoy the UED the most out of all the factions and do enjoy the little interactions they have with other terrans that are surprised to see them. Such as Duke taking a moment in dialogue to express how surprised he was that earthers were stealing their battle cruisers and not some rogue rebel militia.
Zerg are alright kinda just there for me overall, although they do get one of my favourite cutscenes with the cold fusion nuke in 2nd campaign.
Protoss are alright and the final mission of 3 is fun, but a lot of their missions just felt grindy. Then there's the whole matriarch mind control I always forget about until someone mentions it in these threads.
I'm going to be getting back into StarCraft's third episode soon so I can move onto Brood War.
Is there anything significantly different with the port on Battle.net or is it no different than an ISO install?
Correct take. The campaign was never boring, but there were a lot of bullshit missions spread throughout and story McGuffins out of the ass.
It was right at the crosspoint of traditional RTS campaigns that rarely had more than "Kill all enemy doodz!" to them, and later campaigns with competent writing and narrative (Warcraft 3).
The moment to moment writing and voice acting sells it to me. >You speak of knowledge, Judicator? You speak of experience? I have journeyed through the darkness between the most distant stars. I have beheld the births of negative-suns and borne witness to the entropy of entire realities... Unto my experience, Aldaris, all that you've built here on Aiur is but a fleeting dream. A dream from which your precious Conclave shall awaken, finding themselves drowned in a greater nightmare.
It's supposed to be the same but I feel like the non-remastered graphics on the b.net version look worse than the original game. I'm too lazy to actually go reinstall the original to check whether that's true thoughever.
Also, for some really fricking weird reason, having Battlenet on my computer instantly turns the base game's exe which is a cool wraith sprite into a shitty 3D version of it and I have to keep changing it back. I gave up at this point and just play on Battlenet, but I wanted to share this info with someone before I died
The Brood War intro and Diablo 2 cutscene with Baal, Mephisto and Diablo are forever imprinted into my head
but the truth is, Anon. Even modern Blizzard is capable of making incredible cinematics. Diablo 4 Inarius vs Lilith in hell. Overwatch Honor and Glory. Starcraft 2 Hearts of the Swarm and Legacy of the Void intro.
We are lying to ourselves if we think that modern Blizzard has bad cinematics
Brood war sucked ass and was just Kerrigan power wank but the UED was at least somewhat cool even if they were terminally moronic. Why the frick would an admiral trust some backwater morons opinion over his own best friend and high ranking officer.
both narratively and overall game design I would say. last mission was okay. the secret origins hidden mission was kino. the ued was very good
the zerg campaign was absolute cringe though, except that weird interlude mission with fenix
I dont like the protoss missions either. They have strong units but in the campaign everyone you're fighting already has a base and protected as shit. in pvp you can comfortable trade units because you're fighting resources, reavers do that for you. Campaign Terran lets you fortify against dumb AI while zerg you can deathball everything relatively well
>Terran
9 out of the 10 maps are just tutorial missions >Zerg
I fricking hate Reavers >Protoss
When things actually ramp up, best final mission >Dark Templar
6 out of 8 maps are a cakewalk >UED
the perfect campaign, love playing it >Brood War
has the hardest map in the game but overall pretty good
any /vst/ard know why I get the error "unable to start correctly 0xc0000142" and how do I fix it? I haven't finished brood war since my "friend" deleted my progress like 16 years ago.
1 > 6 > 2 > 3 > 4 > 5
Anyone remember the Joel Steudler custom campaigns for Starcraft 1? They were awesome. He even did a custom opening cinematic.
https://lotc.fandom.com/wiki/LotC:_Fallen_Angel_(StarCraft:_Original)
https://www.campaigncreations.org/starcraft/legacy_of_the_confederation/past_purposes
https://www.campaigncreations.org/starcraft/legacy_of_the_confederation/dawn_of_darkness
https://web.archive.org/web/20090608022401/https://www.campaigncreations.org/starcraft/legacy_of_the_confederation/past_purposes
https://web.archive.org/web/20090609053302/https://www.campaigncreations.org/starcraft/legacy_of_the_confederation/dawn_of_darkness
Story:
1 = 2 = 3 > 4 = 5 = 6
Campaign:
4 = 5 = 6 > 1 = 2 = 3
Sc2 story was fricking shit in other words. Missions were a lot more fun though.
Why are you calling brood War starcraft 2
Because I forgot brood war exists and figured 4 5 6 were the 3 StarCraft 2 campaigns.
Essentially I am fricking moronic.
Frick u
Wings of Liberty is the best star craft campaign, prove me wrong
i like the zerg one better tbh.
It's unironically the worst in terms of narrative though. It does have some good missions but also some of the most forgettable ones
The sc2 zerg campaign? That is worse than dogshit in every way. Story, characters, level design, etc. It forced an OP hero unit and your army was worthless in comparison, including how you chose to upgrade it. It was made during peak dota seethe by blizzard. Only the epilogue is worse.
troll
Every good Heart of the Swarm mission was a better WoL mission first.
Except Fire in the Sky, that one's solid. (If you turn voices off. "AMMA BOUT TO DESTROY YOUUU KERRIGAN" -the greatest strategic mind in the dominion)
for me it's.
LotV = WoL > HotS
3>4>5>2>1>6
I love fighting for Aiur missions. Shame that story about it went so moronic there but opening was very atmospheric. +For UED, i like their story
3>5>1>2>6>4
Dislike the Zerg and Protoss remastered models. Don't like the Marine gun.
The classic episode selection menu is superior.
Okay, I think Broodwar Protoss is worst just due to the story being about Artanis acting as Shakuras janny on a quest for shiny rocks. Original zerg is also kinda shit. Others are all good. I'll just say 3>5>6>1>2>4, but the first four can be a toss-up. I guess 1 was a piece of shit because Terrans are insufferable to play at times, but the story carries it. Meanwhile 5 had a really good story and less shit Terrans. 3 was really fun because Protoss are so different and the end is nice. 6 might take the cake, but some of the missions are just pure fricking cancer (Overmind and that random ZvZ one that has you kill scientists).
I like Broodwar Protoss because you can't just Carrier and Archon spam to win except for the very final level. My only beef with it is the Artanis space platform level is way too long and tedious.
UED is fricking based even if DuGalle turning on Stukov is badly presented (though well voice acted).
>Can't carrier spam
>But you can Scout spam from moment one and its even more powerful than Carriers
Granted, Terran is just BC spam and Zerg is Muta+Brood+Devourer
>. Original zerg is also kinda shit.
Original zerg made way too little sense, you spend half of it babysitting kerrigan only for her to become irrelevant anyway, then it ends with overmind prematurely manifesting thereby ensuring his defeat.
>prematurely manifesting
what would be the mature time to manifest? After total annihilation of all protoss and terrans? Does mold wait for you to move out of the house before it spreads and fricks up your food?
Keep in mind there wasn't any other way to destroy the Overmind, they had to perform a kamikaze strike fueled by the strongest templar in the universe and all his psionic force.
>only for her to become irrelevant anyway
oh come the frick on, she's the central plot point of all 3 expansion campaigns. The original campaign is kerrigan's origin story, brood war is her rise to power.
she didn't "hang out" with rebels, she deserted confederacy and Mengsk supposedly saved her life.
>making her elimination high priority
you mean like mengsk and raynor? Confederacy is filled with incompetent inbred pencil pushers, every human colony has their own government, goals and resources. What makes you think they have the capability of hunting down stray rebel leaders? Duke is supposedly leading the most elite ALPHA SQUADRON and he jobs hard throughout the entire campaign, getting btfo'd by some minor irrelevant zerg brood. There's no Boba Fett in starcraft to send after the main characters
There is Nova who can act like an assassin/bounty hunter
I suppose Samir Duran would kind of fit the bill
Duran was sent to kill Stukov, but he did it with the support and transport of UED forces
Nova was a vaporware character until they made her canon and relevant in SC2, and yes, she could work as a bounty hunter assassin. Sadly the plot is shit in SC2
i know that confederacy was on its last legs but it seems stupid that didnt deployed some elite ghosts to terminate kerrigan (highly psionic ghost) or mengsk (rebel who gains more and more supporters in outer systems) but i think you might have a point that confederacy was on last legs AND incredible incompetent to do something even if they wanted too.
yeah, at start of ep 1 there should have been more nova/kerrigan tier in ghost corps that could've taken out kerrigan/mengsk
>what would be the mature time to manifest?
After beating the toss enough to make sure he didn't get beaten back. He's already aware that there are dark templar around who are capable of killing cerebrates and giving him a seizure in the process. Risking falling into the hands of the protoss was pretty reckless.
>oh come the frick on, she's the central plot point of all 3 expansion campaigns
Sure, in the expansion. Meanwhile in the original story it's a bunch of buildup with no payoff. I mean, it could have been any other story with the same outcome: Overmind drops it like a rock the moment he finds out where aiur is.
Brood War does a lot more with the mission variety and unit unlocks. The voice acting is great even if some of the plot beats are a little dumb.
5(UED) > 6(Kerrigan) > 4(Zeratul) > 2(Overmind) >1(Raynor) >3(Tassadar)
mario
yoshi
bowser
peach
their crotches
I hate Artosis streams, why does he allow that shit
Because hes making like 3 dollars to play a 20 second TTS message several times an hour? God bless the literal morons who are amused by that shit though. I used to watch forsen back when he played miracle rogue but hearing that shit makes me feel like I'm going to have an aneurysm now
trinidad and tobago tomato tomato trinidad and tobago tomato potato trinidad and tobago tomato tomato trinidad and tobago tomato potato trinidad and tobago tomato tomato trinidad and tobago tomato potato trinidad and tobago tomato tomato trinidad and tobago tomato potato trinidad and tobago tomato tomato trinidad and tobago tomato potato trinidad and tobago tomato tomato trinidad and tobago tomato potato trinidad and tobago tomato tomato trinidad and tobago tomato potato trinidad and tobago tomato tomato trinidad and tobago tomato potato trinidad and tobago tomato tomato trinidad and tobago tomato potato trinidad and tobago tomato tomato trinidad and tobago tomato potato trinidad and tobago tomato tomato trinidad and tobago tomato potato trinidad and tobago tomato tomato trinidad and tobago tomato potato trinidad and tobago tomato tomato trinidad and tobago tomato potato trinidad and tobago tomato tomato trinidad and tobago tomato potato trinidad and tobago tomato tomato trinidad and tobago tomato potato trinidad and tobago tomato tomato trinidad and tobago tomato potato
hm, damn
3>5>6>4>2>1
I think that's how I'd put them.
UED were quite fun, but peak were vanilal protoss.
also: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_a3VYRgrYI
Protoss campaigns were really stupid plotwise. For example, Tassadar surrendering to the conclave just so you have to bail him out the next mission.
Tau>Nids>Imperials
BW Terran>SC Terran>BW Zerg>SC Toss>SC 2 Terran>SC Zerg>SC Toss>SC2 Toss>Taking bong rips of an old mans Farts>SC2 Zerg
I just played through all 6 again after like 15 years. The first three were a slog, but then there's a huge jump in quality in BW. It's as if they suddenly decided to do some actual level design. Even steered away from the oversimplified plot and did a lot more with the characters.
6>4>5>3>2>1
You listed SC Toss twice
I like the last mission in 6 narratively thoughever
>You listed SC Toss twice
Whoops, BW toss after BW zerg.
Terran-chads, we can't stop winning
I liked episode 3 but wish terrans were more present there. At one point you encounter a battlecruiser and 10 wraiths, that's the entire terran forces you face in the whole episode
Why Raynor in coop spams marines like crazy? Wasn't in story his faction was basically 1 battlectuise full of veterans? And yet in coop he spams them like he's freaking mengsk with whole dominion worth of expendable troops?
>Inb4 it's not sc1 related
Didn't wanted to create new thread + Jim in sc1 is same as sc2, as in 1 ship full of badass dudes.
Also. Why aldaris and conclave were so moronic?
And how the frick kerrigan mind controlled freaking matriarch (whilos like thousand years protoss and in theory should be way more refined and mastered spionics compared to kerrigan who became protoss tier spionic recently)
Raynor was one of the first commanders when co-op had different standards and a different target audience. He plays more like ladder terran than any other because of that, for better and for worse (most of it is for worse). Mengsk was released like 5 years after Raynor and is basically a developer response to how shitty/boring Raynor is and how cool he could be. The same thing could be said for Han and Horner, which Mengsk also mogs with many of the same mechanics and playstyles but just way better.
>Why aldaris and conclave were so moronic?
Were they? In mission 2 Tassadar tells us to just go and assasinate cerebrates knowing damn well we can't since we don't have dark templars with us. At that point of the story Aldaris was already suspicious of Tassadar because he just cut all contact with Aiur. Despite that he still decided to go along with the assasination plan. The conclave didn't take any actions to stop Tassadar until his plan backfired and got Fenix killed for no reason and at that point it was reasonable for them to think he's up to something stupid and they should stop him.
Makes sense, as mengsk is THE EMPEROR of TERRAN DOMINION, not some rebel jimbo or merc bosslady
Are you sure you replied to the right person
Sorry
Was meant for
>Jim in sc1 is same as sc2
Hell no, Jim in SC1 is our guy, he's a turbo-simp who puts hoes before bros in SC2.
The ESL poster meant that Jim's playstyle theme was the same between sc1 and sc2, not his character development.
Raynor/Kerrigan/Artanis are proxies of campaign gameplay, and they are OK if you go play with them understanding this, and while they feel very basic compared to other commanders, all 3 have great ways of staying in fight and bringing in reinforcements fast. imo they are well balanced as they are now and are great approximations of campaign gameplay
Most of the commanders have heavy influence from the campaigns, that's not a reason or an excuse. Kerrigan is considered the best f2p commander and is pretty good overall where she can do very well against mutators and weekly mutations, no problems there. Artanis is both noob friendly (unlike Raynor despite him being advertised that) and robust, he's typically on the lower end of commander rankings but he has his niches and is fun to play especially with the arkship commandant prestige dropping super archons everywhere.
It's just Raynor. He sucks, he's hard to play, he's very punishing, he's slow to ramp up, his detection is frustrating, he's a trap for most people new to co-op. You could still keep his core playstyle if you just tweaked a few things to speed up his early game and made his macro easier. Just having to look at your base for 2 seconds to drop mules can lose your entire army on mutators like going nuclear.
the free commanders could use some redesign and buffs; both to their core gameplay and units as well as their prestiges.
mostly raynor, a bit less artanis, and least of all three kerrigan. kerrigan's only "issue" is lack of truly compelling spread creep outside the worms for p1. but overall she has a decent if boring macro army and good mastery set to support it.
the real fricking question is why doesnt artanis have scouts/arbiters/carriers/motherships or even corsairs/voidrays whereas fenix and karax have carriers, fenix has scouts and vorazun voidrays. or invisible melee assassin from the gateway or even a sentry like unit
P1 Kerrigan is the worst, it has uses like lurker defense on dead of night and for hydralisks against missile command but other commanders are always better for that kind of thing. Her p1 is the noob prestige that many people on random queue use despite them being terrible at creep spread, I swear half of them don't even make queens. It also doesn't help her air. Still Kerrigan is good and any prestige is fine.
Artanis is my favorite of the free, specifically p3. His ground army lacks aoe with zealots being a shitty mineral dump that just die (especially on p3). Reavers are all he has and they kind of suck and take a while to tech to, but they do get the job done on infested maps. Immortals really aren't much better than dragoons at all. I agree his air units are shit and literally deleting his stargate would improve him for half of the Artanis players on random queue. Phoenixes are too frail even with guardian shell and can't lift the units you actually want lifted, their dps is shit too. Tempests are another noob trap that have only meme niches done better by other commanders. It'd be nice if he got something hitscan especially for antiair for missile command and zerg air, maybe scouts would be nice for that even though technically their hitscan attack is antiground. I hate having to make high templar to storm zerg air, they suck so much even on p1.
Raynor's shit. Little things like giving him tech reactors, his bunkers starting with 6 capacity, and having all of his CCs start as orbitals including the one he spawns with (even if they have to start with 0 energy) would help him so much. The latter would be great to teach noobs that orbitals are really good, since many Raynors never make them.
But none of this matters when all of them are stuck at level 5 for a week every game update because Blizzard is incompetent and their offices are empty. Maybe the AI and pajeet customer support will fix it one day.
hey so I just saw your effort response
I think it's rather bad that so many p1 prestiges are either noob traps or straight out bad
For example, artanis p2 is the most interesting but he is only really able to warp in and out through the call down warp field which costs 25 energy each time (what no mothership does to a mf)
I also think it's absurd that for a prestige meant to augment unit abilities p1 makes them cost 30 fricking percent more, on a very resource starved macro commander to boot too (lmao)
It would make more sense to make artanis p1 units cheaper and faster to tech into (think kerrigan masteries set as a comparison) and maybe take off guardian shell from that prestige
Instead p3 should work with a charge system with lower cooldowns on your energy based weapons from spear of adun, with increased energy. However, it is this prestige that should suffer a slight price increase while having guardian shell apply only to your own units instead of your allies (reverse situation of p1)
And for god's sake, expand the unit roster on most macro commanders especially the f2p
All of these are a pipe dream but it's infuriating to have raynor and mengsk in the same game with h&h existing as a middle ground
The p2 warp field used to only cost 10 energy but got nerfed because it was too "overpowered." (Similarly Raynor used to have double mules instead of armor increasing unit hp, although that was kind of degenerate since it encouraged mining out the map with a billion marines, barracks, and CCs.) I don't think p2 Artanis is even that good in theory since faster attack speed from the mastery doesn't help projectile based attacks much due to overkill. If you were massing immortals against ground comps then it would be based I guess.
P1 issue is it buffs zealots and HT the most, but zealot/HT is p0's weakest comp and like you said it takes forever to get all of the HT upgrades and finally make a few of them. Some mutators like evasive maneuvers completely shut it down too. P1 is bad because dragoons get no buff at all, and other unit buffs are trash. Immortals are only tankier, phoenix pickup cooldown is halved but most fights will be over before you can use it again, tempest damage over time is doubled but who cares, etc. Reavers with the full energy cooldown mastery don't need the prestige buff for faster reaver production either, they almost always have enough on p0/p3.
I like p3 the most because it gives the player more choices in how to approach the game so more fun, and guardian shell just doesn't help much against many mutators. And like p2 it can project power across the map even if your army is out of position. It also lets you fast expand on nearly every map with the starting adun energy mastery.
It's nice you noticed the similarities between Mengsk and HH/Raynor. Mengsk was literally developed in response to the co-op devs noticing how shit the others are. His units, topbars, and prestiges are just Raynor/HH strategies but better.
>troopers/marines, including orbital drop
>bunkers
>royal guard/horner units
>han death abilities and his p3
>ESOs and strike fighters
Still can't play Artanis because he's level 5 btw.
you can still mine maps with high number of cc though. I am also mad that specifically the three f2p commanders are mostly macro focused and based on campaigns and generic but they also have a rather lackluster unit
ie no "frontline"/fighter unit from factory for raynor, lack of mobile detection, lack of medivacs (FRICKING MENGSK HAS THEM FFS) shitty medics and overall masteries and lvl bonuses are just hp and attack speed bonus which arent bad, p2 raynor has silly attack speed mechs to be fair (p2 should give afterburners automatically as raynor gives stimpack automatically)
Medics cost 75m 50g 2pop for some goddamn reason instead of 50m 25g 1pop (they are over half the cost of a medivac and the same pop to boot, the absolute state)
Commanders like stettman get all the great units (endlessly spamming infestors, immortal lings and ultralisks) while with raynor you have 149hp marines if you go p1. Just kek. the best way to play p1 is usually to open barracks then add starport later on to use your gas slowly replacing most mineral heavy units with bcs primarily
also: dragoons are the worst shooty/2pop ranged unit by far; stalkers would have been better even if your micro is shitty, a blink once 10secs would be invaluable, guardian shell is way too nerfed and its mastery is laughable (+15per cent more regn for 30pts wowzers!)
Artanis when non p3 is way too reliant on spamming his orbital strikes and often enough ends up with less energy with worse results,
hts still suck even with full upgrades: storms cant damage enemy buildings nor can they refresh your own building's shields (why? it's not as if artanis would be a defense monster with it when storm costs 75 energy on a 200gas unit)
As a f2p guy, kerrigan is generally the main go to pick who is overall far more solid and reliable due to strong hero and strong support masteries
finally, for artanis, a charge system on some of his top bar with improved base energy regen would be a lot better (a charge system for p2 warp for example would ensure you would be "forced" to use it a bit more proactively than just camping for 10+mins then only use it in very small bursts to snipe objectives/enemy waves while giving it an energy cost reduction and a buff to energy regen as well)
Gameplay:
Terran 1 was cool as a child but its very easy and the winning strat is always super fricking boring, the only cool mission is the one with Duke on the Platform
- music is great though
Zerg 2 is also boring as frick, but at least controlling zerg units is more fun and Kerrigan's PsiStorm and cloak with consume is based
- the theme is really badass, every building being guts and gore is amazing
- guardians are very satisfying against AI
Protoss 3 has lots of very interesting units and mechanics, great hero units, far cooler mission design and the finale with Raynor and Tassadar is cool as frick
Protoss 4 is unbelievably boring, all of the missions are just braindead easy, the objectives are either sitting on your ass and macroing up one big army which then insta wipes the enemy, or you sniping one objective. At least the final mission is cool.
Terran 5 is very good since you have such a variety of creative mission designs, some of the missions are quite tough and they all implement terrain in an interesting way. A shame the final mission gave you access to battlecruisers, otherwise it would've been very interesting.
Zerg 6 has the highest difficulty which by itself makes it interesting. To Slay The Beast and OMEGA are some of my favourite missions. I like how you're forced into using mixed unit comps unlike with the toss and terran campaigns where you just macro tanks/goliaths/dragoons/zealots or capital ships. Hydra Ling Guardian is cool as frick to macro and micro and difficult even as an adult.
Gameplay Overall: 6 > 5 = 3 > 4 > 2 > 1
Story/theme wise:
Terran 1 is cool as frick, your character being the Magistrate and having an actual character is great
Zerg 2 is also cool as frick, "awaken my child and embrace the glory that is your birthright" - probably the sickest shit in the whole series, the cerebrates are cool and so is kerrigan, the whole perspective of controlling the disgusting hiveminded aliens you've been slaughtering in the terrain campaign and learning they've got a deity-like consciousness and multiple independently thinking bosses is great.
Protoss 3 is also cool as frick, the hero units are all incredibly voice acted and characterised. Terran and Zerg were cool too, but the gritty space warriors who go back into battle even after they've been gimped in mecha-spiders is based as frick. Fenix, Tassadar, Zeratul were just based. I like how little the game tells you about protoss before you get to play as them and I like how you get to see them first from a moment of desperation.
Protoss 4 is likewise really fricking cool, Artanis takes up a little too much screentime but the story really picks up, the permanent cycles of backstabbing via Kerrigan really complicates things. Shakuras was cool and I liked that most missions were building towards the finale with the Temple and the Crystals. Aldaris being moronic is a major complaint of mine though.
Terran 5 is just great, "Earth" Terrans appearing and being this hammer of military might is real good. Unfortunately stukov being moronic and not telling DuGalle about Duran is just really fricking stupid and I don't like stories that need their characters to act moronic for conflict. Taming the Zerg is giga based however.
Zerg 6 is the fricking apex of the story, things get gritty, everyone's getting desperate, betrayals are in overdrive, I think it's a very bold move of Blizzard to make the hiveminded gore-insect alien race come out as the winner.
Overall: 6 = 3 = 2 >= 5 =4 =1
Basically they're all elder god tier.
>I like how little the game tells you about protoss before you get to play as them
This. Whole SC1 is filled with mystery aura. From the intro cinematic and capaign selection screen to the last mission. I love it.
>I think it's a very bold move of Blizzard to make the hiveminded gore-insect alien race come out as the winner.
I was also very shocked by this back when the game dropped (i was about 10 years old). I read somewhere that when they made that decision blizzard thought they were going to be making SC2 very soon therafter so it would be a good way to wet people's appetite, but then warcraft 3 overperformed so they invested everything on WOW.
It's "whet" an appetite
They did the same with Diablo letting the Wanderer get away with the Soulstone and in 2 having the Worldstone destroyed that kept hell at bay. And ofc in WC3 with Arthas becoming the Lich King. Really bad endings that you should avoid to achieve as player for the gameworlds.
>Zerg 6 is the fricking apex of the story
idk there's like 4 missions that are just Kerrigan and Duran with no other characters to interact with
This is objectively correct.
More like
3 > 5 > 2 > 6 > 4 > 1
The level Valkyries are introduced is filled with scourges, that's not how you want to make your new expansions units look impressive.
3 > 5 > 2 > 1 > 6 > 4
Terran 1 had a great narrative
Backwater Station leading into the Desperate Alliance evacuation
Jacobs installation for a small-scale change of pace, and then everything culminating with the psi emitters and intrigue.
Zerg 2 continuing the story of Kerrigan, culminating in zerg 6 and its final mission against all comers for ultimate supremacy.
I'm biased against the Protoss story because I don't find them very interesting. It's the interplay between Terran and Zerg for me. Protest could be stripped from the setting entirely and I couldn't care less.
>he would be fine if he had a raynor hero; his early game is terrible and you gotta go 3-5 orbitals to get your eco going and start raining down troops.
I actually think Raynor would be perfectly balanced if his command centers just built as orbitals, including the one he starts the game with so he can drop a mule at the 0:01 second mark. It would give him the ramp up boost but not be broken like double mules were, his endgame power would still be the same. P0/P2 for proper bio/tank play benefit the most, P3 is already his strongest prestige so doesn't need to benefit as much, and P1 is a shitty prestige for noobs that will be relatively even worse and discourage people from using it. Win-win-win.
Raynor would still have tons of problems like needing to look at his base to macro, poor mobility, and bad answers to baneling/viper and disruptor/reaver comps, so it's not like he would be overpowered.
Give raynor tech reactors too so he doesn't have to build 12 production structures every single game. There's no reason swann should only get them. He would be really fun and streamlined with that, and his early game wouldn't be complete cancer especially with b+ or higher and weekly mutations.
How I see it p1 is early sc1/sons of korhal or early sc2/wol Raynor. He doesn't have much, but his guys have seen a lot of action. P0/P2 is bw era Raynor or end of wol/post wall Raynor. Adaptable, have tools for pretty much any mission. P3 Raynor is lotv, high ranking commander of valerians dominion, so he has access to big fleets /armada of battlecruisers.
I maybe be autistic though as I view all of other commanders prestiges as them bring portrayed at x point in campaign/what ifs scenarios
>gameplay
Z1, T2, T1, P2=Z2, P1
>narrative
Z1, T1, P1, T2, P2=Z2
It's a pretty typical (bad) RTS campaign experience for the time, the base story is mostly decent-great but holy hell is Broodwar moronic.
Z2 narrative is based though, ending with Kerrigan finally taking on everyone after a long series of betrayals
>Starcraft 1 has a bad campaign
enjoyed it but i'm just being honest with myself, going on bnet to play UMS was much more fun. Blizzard didnt make a compelling rts campaign until Warcraft III
Correct take. The campaign was never boring, but there were a lot of bullshit missions spread throughout and story McGuffins out of the ass.
It was right at the crosspoint of traditional RTS campaigns that rarely had more than "Kill all enemy doodz!" to them, and later campaigns with competent writing and narrative (Warcraft 3).
Suggest some good campaigns other than WCIII
Here
Brood war and sc1 had a lot of character development and grey morality which is basically the main ingredients you need if your story isnt going to be some cheesy heroez vs bad guyz, save-the-world, michael bay-esque “narrative”. In good stories you are asking yourself a lot “is my character doing the right thing? What does this mean?” They invite contemplation... bad stories just straight up tell you “hey ur a good guy” or “ur a villain in thIs GamE”. No thought needed!
Over the course of sc1 and bw you witness:
Mengsk evolve from freedom fighter to ruthless tyrant concerned only with his own personal power
Kerrigan gradually lose her humanity and become the embodiment of the zerg (unity through conquest).
Reynor go from a man trying to do the right thing to embittered, disillusioned and obsessed with revenge.
Tassadar/aldaris and zeratul overcome a centuries long enmity/prejudice and band together against the zerg.
Brood war in particular had lots of grey morality. Your pov character in each of the campaigns switches sides at least once. You see lots of major characters make “deals with the devil” - the UED trying to use the zerg as attack dogs instead of destroying them, Kerrigan manipulating zeratul and others to do her dirty work for her, etc.
I have only played Starcraft 1
But Protoss > Zerg > Terran
Going from Marines to Hydralisks to Dragoons was cool
Just mind the stairs
Personally enjoyed the UED chapter because they're humans, from EARTH.
i really wish there were UED commander in coop, especially since bw established UED doctrine of infantry battalions supported by armor and air dominance (marines + medics + tanks, valkyries & battlecruisers)
>Yes, cerebrate?
>Hmm...
>A bold move
>On my way...
>grrrh...
I really wish there was some kind of "open world/galaxy" 4x game like Stellaris in the SC2 setting, with all the various in-game commanders and characters as subfactions. It could be like like the co-op game-mode where your chosen commander changes and specializes your faction's options and gameplay. Maybe the game could even mix the combat between traditional RTS/basebuilding on planets and space stations, as well as having Stellaris/Sins of A Solar Empire space fleet combat.
The only campaign that I ever felt like replaying was the Zerg one from the baseline. Played it grand total of thrice.
And I don't even remember what was the Terran campaign in BW
I am playing Mass Recall and it seems actually good
its great, i prefer it way more to SC1
It's good but it's not the same
it always bugged me that kerrigan, who is seemingly so powerful psionic that confederacy had to readjust their psionic evaluation scale just to measure her potential, somehow hangs out with rebel group and confederacy isnt bothered with that at all, instead of you know, making her elimination high priority (killing mengsk/Sons of korhal being good bonus for them as well).story in sc1/pre brood war gives me vibe that she was powerful/skilled ghost, but still just regular ghost in grand scheme of things and all power wanks comes from books/other sources. (i dont have such problem with infested kerrigan as its reasonable that if theyre gonna infest her might as well add some upgrades regarding said psionic powers).
i also bit annoyed how they explained in books why raynor is such powerhouse compared to regular marines (while for all intents and purposes being just regular marine/dude in story) as being ex special forces war hero/ex deserter and criminal instead of being regular guy cough in events way bigger then he is. (although dialogue in ep1 suggest me that literally EVERYONE in story was some kind of veteran from previous wars so i give it a pass)
Do you have a favourite moment in the Starcraft 1 or Brood War campaign?
It sounds simplistic but I really enjoyed the first Protoss mission and witnessing just how powerful Zealots and Dragoons were when compared to Zerglings and Hydralisks
It really felt like the Protoss units were a cut above everyone else
>Do you have a favourite moment in the Starcraft 1 or Brood War campaign?
So fricking cool discovering this for the first time, the unsettling atmosphere of interacting with each stasis cell is etched in my brain
I love playing as zerg in general. I loved how the overmind felt as this impersonal creature that only cared about conquering the galaxy while his cerebrates were more humanlike in their personalities, with their own wants and needs. I gave a sort of heartless corporation board feel with this old and wise monster at the top of it, and I wonder if that was their initial intention.
1- revegne of the sith
2- A new hope
3- empire strike back
4- phantem menace
5-attach of the clones
but all are very good thank you
Story: 1>3>2>5>6>4
Gameplay: 5>6>2>4>1>3 (frankly 1-3 and 4-6 are mostly equal in their groups, with 4-6 being better than 1-3)
Anyone who geniunely likes the "I le mindcontrolled yuo ally"/sudden moronitis attacks of brood wars' story should kill themselves
5>6>1=2>4=3
I enjoy the UED the most out of all the factions and do enjoy the little interactions they have with other terrans that are surprised to see them. Such as Duke taking a moment in dialogue to express how surprised he was that earthers were stealing their battle cruisers and not some rogue rebel militia.
Zerg are alright kinda just there for me overall, although they do get one of my favourite cutscenes with the cold fusion nuke in 2nd campaign.
Protoss are alright and the final mission of 3 is fun, but a lot of their missions just felt grindy. Then there's the whole matriarch mind control I always forget about until someone mentions it in these threads.
anything that has kerrigan post-zerg'd is best, her ass is the best
5>1>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>shit
SHARTOSIS...
why was artosis never able to recover
RT is doing a special stream today for the lonely guys in the chat like myself that spend the christmas eve alone
we are watching wardi
twitch.tv/wardiii
when will you have a nice day?
you first
I'm going to be getting back into StarCraft's third episode soon so I can move onto Brood War.
Is there anything significantly different with the port on Battle.net or is it no different than an ISO install?
It's no different.
The moment to moment writing and voice acting sells it to me.
>You speak of knowledge, Judicator? You speak of experience? I have journeyed through the darkness between the most distant stars. I have beheld the births of negative-suns and borne witness to the entropy of entire realities... Unto my experience, Aldaris, all that you've built here on Aiur is but a fleeting dream. A dream from which your precious Conclave shall awaken, finding themselves drowned in a greater nightmare.
It's supposed to be the same but I feel like the non-remastered graphics on the b.net version look worse than the original game. I'm too lazy to actually go reinstall the original to check whether that's true thoughever.
It's the same, trust me.
Also, for some really fricking weird reason, having Battlenet on my computer instantly turns the base game's exe which is a cool wraith sprite into a shitty 3D version of it and I have to keep changing it back. I gave up at this point and just play on Battlenet, but I wanted to share this info with someone before I died
I haven't seen a thor for months
finally some good news
Why is the sound of the terran academy a scream?
I'm scared of it
because they're training with knife fights
the academy scream is actually a sound design joke/stock scream, like the wilhlem scream.
Howie Scream + it's because they go through a murderous training from hell.
>Why can you hear screams from the building that makes experiments with marines?
5 > 1 > 3 > 6 > 2 > 4
sc2 sucks
happy new year /scv/
One year closer to Starcraft 3
Duke is my favorite character in all of Starcraft
What does that say about me?
soulles zoomer trash. why is Edmund Duke so fricking young here? he looks 30.
he looks 45, maybe older.
>amused by your shit
>dies by some bug b***h's hand
early blizzard (diablo 1, diablo 2, warcraft 2, starcraft 1) cinematics had more soul than literally any other game cinematic ever made prove me wrong
The Brood War intro and Diablo 2 cutscene with Baal, Mephisto and Diablo are forever imprinted into my head
but the truth is, Anon. Even modern Blizzard is capable of making incredible cinematics. Diablo 4 Inarius vs Lilith in hell. Overwatch Honor and Glory. Starcraft 2 Hearts of the Swarm and Legacy of the Void intro.
We are lying to ourselves if we think that modern Blizzard has bad cinematics
wtf is this shit scbros?
I'm in the last zerg mission of brood war
Any tips?
maek hydralisk
frick i'm redownloading the fricking launcher
2>1>3>5>4>6
Brood war sucked ass and was just Kerrigan power wank but the UED was at least somewhat cool even if they were terminally moronic. Why the frick would an admiral trust some backwater morons opinion over his own best friend and high ranking officer.
1 > everything else.
The charm was excellent. It all went wacko nuts in mysticism afterwards
6=5>2=3>1>4
This is really hard, and I'm not even sure this is my definitive answer.
So going through the thread people can mostly agree on one thing. 4 aka BW Toss sucks.
both narratively and overall game design I would say. last mission was okay. the secret origins hidden mission was kino. the ued was very good
the zerg campaign was absolute cringe though, except that weird interlude mission with fenix
gameplay
6>4=5 >1=2=3
Story
1= 2 > 6 >5 > 3=4
ya i dont like protoss missions.
I dont like the protoss missions either. They have strong units but in the campaign everyone you're fighting already has a base and protected as shit. in pvp you can comfortable trade units because you're fighting resources, reavers do that for you. Campaign Terran lets you fortify against dumb AI while zerg you can deathball everything relatively well
Just posting soul. Feel free to post the simulacre.
it would help if I posted the image.
That pic looks like he's shitting a giant log
BW terran (5) > SC terran (1) > SC zerg (2) > BW zerg (6) > SC protoss (3) > BW protoss (4)
would switch sc zerg and protoss but I otherwise agree
Decades later and I'm still a little upset that Aldaris got iced in a really contrived way after having a good character arc
it was a suitable death, he was the one who always distrusted kerrigan and could potentially thwart her plans somewhere down the line
>Terran
9 out of the 10 maps are just tutorial missions
>Zerg
I fricking hate Reavers
>Protoss
When things actually ramp up, best final mission
>Dark Templar
6 out of 8 maps are a cakewalk
>UED
the perfect campaign, love playing it
>Brood War
has the hardest map in the game but overall pretty good
so yeah
5 > 6 > 3 > 4 > 2 > 1
Top episode of StarCraft: Brood War was "multiplayer"
Anyone played the cut Terran campaign missions? Were they good? There were 2 of them.
what are the two cut missions?
Biting the Bullet - with Jim and Duke in a siege tank in which the protoss arrive to help them
Has cut voice dailouge and a briefing
Siren scream - with Sarah on tarsonis as the emitters are going on line
Not any cut dialouge just reused from the big push
Both maps were reused in enslavers
Modding site or somewhere you
And on old discs they were included
does anyone know how to sign up for the internet
Obviously you need DirectX 5 first
press S moron, the hotkey buttons are highlighted
any /vst/ard know why I get the error "unable to start correctly 0xc0000142" and how do I fix it? I haven't finished brood war since my "friend" deleted my progress like 16 years ago.