You will have more fun spending most of the game moving 6" and rolling 3+ then 4+ then you ever will with "stratagems", "metawatch", "symmetrical L-shaped terrain " and whatever other shite they've dreamed up recently
Return to 3rd. Or maybe 4th edition rulebook with the 3rd edition codexes at its release
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>Can't advance
>Necrons are an IWIN button
>Tau JSJ and you never get to retaliate
>Nurgle biker lord reaches your line and shits out 40+ bloodletters and two thirsters.
nah I'll take Age of Capeshit
Necrons weren't that strong, small range too
3 HQs? You sure?
Besides, snivelling little freaks like you will chase that meta anyway. You don't have the soul to pick up an army based on higher goals.
You hurt my feelings now I'm really not gonna play 3rd with you 🙁
>Necrons are an IWIN button
lol no, get gud
I think I'll just play a better edition 😛
No, you have to get gud
No I don't.
YES YOU DO
>Age of Capeshit
Wouldn't that be HH? I mean, the Primarchs are basically the Avengers at this point.
I started playing in 3e. My friend and I split the starter box, I bought a bunch of Wyches and Jetbikes, and I had so much fun until the 4e Dark Eldar book was released halfway through 5e and killed the army because they had no way to reliably deal with 5 parking lots. Frick leafblower players. Literal pay2win cell phone gamers. Anyway I lost interest when the GW balance pendulum swung the other way and no one wants to see my beautifully painted models outside of a tournament.
So I'm inclined to agree but I am ridiculously blinded by nostalgia.
Necrons have always been an army for teenage boys who value edge over winning. Unless something changed over COVID - my last game was in 7e? 8e? - nothing has changed since they came out.
Is this purely a Marine problem? Until Riptides and overwatch nonsense Tau were exceptionally hard to play well even with a netlist.
What? You mean a Demon Prince, right? Thirsters were bait, or proxies. Nobody ran a Nurgle Biker Lord AND a DP, too points heavy. Either they ran two Lords for redundancy, or a DP. Never both. Certainly not 3 HQ choices lmao. Deep striking lesser demons in wasn't the big move you think it was, either. Demons were easily put down compared to their points in CSM. The nurgle bikes, much like my own combat drugged up bikers, were most of the power, because of their mobility and how much effort is involved in taking them off the board. The one thing 5e did well was forcing you to rely on troops so the game wasn't death star herohammer fights. The problem is, non-marines had shit troops prior to 5e, and then they put out GK with their Paladinstars, so most of 5e edition was Marincest.
AdMech seems to be exclusively the province of power gamers, even in real life LGS. I have personally never met AdMech players who genuinely loved their lore and aesthetic. They are all the powergamers who embarass me by association.
Maybe you're different. Maybe I have terrible luck.
this reads like you've never played the game during this edition, definitely not against chaos, you're just throwing buzzwords around.
1. you cannot summon from an unaligned god, i.e. Nurgle summoning Khorne is strictly impossible
same with possession
2. Greater daemons are summoned via possession so you just spent 100 points~ to deploy your demon, remember sqaud champions can literally do that just the same, kinda on a 4 up every turn they have a chance to.
3. chaos lesser daemons were capped at 15 models per unit, so sayth my codex.
in addition this is not nearly as bad as you're indicating.
summoning was explicitly written to be reserve rolls, i.e. from 4+ and had to be base to base with the summoner (could still scatter though). and remember start of the turn, so you'd have to have put your lord in the position you wanted the turn before.
meaning he basically operated as an open topped transport which isn't nearly as strong as you give it credit for, particularly when 1/3rd of your army is in reserve till at least turn 2. the auto summon mark is for chosen so that has to be a lord retinue, which means spending more points.
charge ranges were 6" back then so it's not as harsh as you indicate.
so just to indicate, your opponent in a game system that regularly played 1000-1500 pts spent 100 on an HQ 400 on a troop and 260 base on a GD. the second 260 would be illegal for lacking compulsory troop a and 3rd HQ
that's 760 points before daemonic gifts and 100 is thrown away. and yourlord can still get brained turn 1-2 depending on if the daemons come in.
this reminds me of the guy who claimed that nurgle bikers could take krak missiles to the face ignoring ID was a thing and neither bikes nor MoN protected you from that.
>this reads like you've never played the game during this edition
Because he clearly hasn't. As you said it was impossible for a lord to summon two greater daemons as not only did summoning a GD literally exlode out of your character and kill him, but you were restricted to only one GD in your army.
Not to mention necrons being complete trash and tau being bad.
If he had actually every played 3rd edition, he would have complained about eldar which were completely broken during 3rd ed.
Crons are shit. Frick tau just win on objectives.
>Necrons are an IWIN button
Necrons were fricking terrible. They were incredibly easy to table.
>Necrons are too good
Laughs in battle cannon
You lose out on a lot of units, too. it's easier to wrangle compatibility for your units out of Grimdark Future
You're just making shit up you fricking idiot, you've never even played age of capeshit let alone 3rd edition
Capeshit would be fine if special characters didn’t exist. If you have to make your beatstick HQ your own mechanically and modeling wise it would be a cool concept.
I can't play Admech though.
And no, a single unit in Imperial Guard doesn't really count.
Good, in some ways the long-awaited AdMech army was a bit disappointing. The Heresy army is a bit closer to what I imagined all those years ago but it's still... Off
To be fair, the colour scheme GW uses doesn't do them any favours
There is no army in 40k I find more disappointing than admech.
>tfw fires of cyraxus never
You could actually, there was a "fan" codex written by one of the GW designers.
I miss Citadel Journal something fierce
>WHF halfling army list
>3e Harlequin list
>more sovl i cant remember
Still have the Harley and Halfie journals somewhere
Mod Inquisition armies and you have Admech.
just port the heresy models you have, increase their costs by like 150%, reduce rules and playtest until they're fun and balanced
just combine the 3 editions.
like how no one likes 6 or 7, for good fricking reason even if i think there's a good argument for melee AP
The old artwork by blanche was really fricking great. I still hate that they changed to only using realistic tabletop models in artwork.
because like art, no one working for gw now has a soul
I thought it was because of the chapterhouse shit
... in addition to the whole walking soulless abomination of a company thing
I've got all the books. I just need people to play against
Where do you live? I'll play with you if you live close.
40k is only good as a ruleset when playing narrative campaigns with gentlemen's agreement to build fluffy lists. It still has problems even with those restrictions.
Yeah modern 40k is the worst TT game I have ever played from a gameplay perspective. Good thing Old World is returning at least. 4th was my favorite 40k edition.
Or, get this, you could play games that are NOT Games Workshop properties and are actually worth playing. Crazy, right?
Okay, I want to play a game where I can have between what GW would consider 500-1000 pts of models, has rules that can be quickly learned but also has either strategic depth or very robust narrative content. Oh and since I and all my current gaming friends have sunk cost fallacy I'd like to be able to use my current models and not have to buy a new set of minis, or at least not right away.
What game do I play?
One Page Rules
Well there are the usual suspects of OPR and Xenos Rampant. If you're into Kill Team, you might enjoy A Fistful of Lead: Galactic Heroes, it's a lot of fun. There was at one point a fan-made 40K "expansion" to Chain of Command. I'm not sure if that is still available somewhere but if it is, I would recommend at least taking a look at it and CoC, it's one of my favorite games.
Here ya go bud':
https://gofile.io/d/h2A6bl
Funny enough, GW actually has you covered. Play Middle Earth Strategy Battle Game. It's GW's best ruleset in my opinion. Pretty easy to pick up but still has depth. Also has a bunch of campaign books that give you options for both settings up your own campaigns and reenacting key battles from both the Peter Jackson movies and Tolkien's books.
Nevermind. I didn't see that you want to be able to use the models you already have. Can't do that with MESBG.
>has GW models
>likes GW models
>only likes (old) GW models
Anything else is just a version of 40k anyway, why not play a ruleset that two people actually like and will be willing to play? Every other wargame has shit models and that is the only point of wargaming. Play chess if you're not interested in miniatures.
Anyone tried 5th ed with 3rd edition dexes (but 4th ed space marines)? I’ve heard it’s the best way to play but I’ve only played 4th
5th has its issues because of the changes to LoS; this is where the BS began with, "see a toe, kill entire unit."
It does have the changes to terrain and the addition of running which would be nice. Someday, (and I think that's very soon) the Grogs will sit down and take the best aspects of 2nd-5th and we'll have a living, 4OldyK ruleset. However, the 3rd codices are near perfect.
I agree, especially with the greater exposure to what happened with epic and the community as people dug int the new epic scale game
i think the mass outrage and hatred to 10th is the golden opportunity for a living ruleset to be born from the 3rd-5th rulesets.
I think there's an opportunity there to improve the game beyond the GW slop. For instance, utilizing Priestley's order dice system from Bolt Action, and leaving the UGOIGO turn system. But taking the 3rd core, with the 4th updates, terrain improvements of 5th and the option to run would be great. I've always wanted to try 3rd edition using a more 40k stylized order dice system, it's so smooth and leads to some very tense games.
IN THE GRIM DARKNESS OF MODERNITY, THERE IS ONLY THE FAN SOLUTION:
4OLDYK: A Living Rulebook of the Golden Age
Well? Get thinking!
NTA but for me it's the moment Guilliman wakes up and Primaris come into the picture
it would be an undertaking, and would require a general most likely. but, id love to participate. for instance:
1. do we like herohammer aspects of 2e? do we keep it as is, or tame it a bit? it certainly supports yourdudes and narrative
2. is 3e our core, or is 4e our core?
3. yes or no to the terrain improvements in 5th? i enjoyed the ability to take both the cover save and armor save, but it adds to game length
4. what units get the axe, if any, from the middlehammer editions?
5. city fight 3e or 4e?
6. besides flyers, are there rules that we are abandoning?
what other questions would you anons put out there?
any drawgay willing to make a quick 4OldyK logo?
5th edition as a base with the following:
>4th edition terrain rules and LOS
>modified vehicle damage table, something more like 4th edition, with skimmers moving fast gone
>multi wound model abuse removed
>kill point mission removed
Would be pretty close to good for me.
thank you for adding. anything else you'd suggest? also, why 5th for the base vs 4th or 3rd?
>greentext
So, 4th edition?
love me some moldy-k.
tbh 3.5 is a great specimen for the kind of 40k most people want to play, just fix the parking lot syndrome and it's perfect.
Parking lot syndrome?
>and the addition of running which would be nice
This was added to 3rd in a chapter approved, double move but couldn't charge or fire in the same turn, I thibk they had to take a pinning test if fired at that turn too.
>the Grogs will sit down and take the best aspects of 2nd-5th
Good luck on getting grogs to agree on anything.
4th ed got stratagems, but in cityfights, they actually made something instead of rerolls like giving you deep strike bunker or placing minefields.
Problem with 10th ed is fact it's just shit at it's core and stratagems are just boring.
As God intended. No exceptions.
easy enough for a child to understand, limiting enough to deny BS but inspire creativity, and of course, forces you to create a skirmish force of "your dudes;" the hobby aspect that has seemingly waxed away on the tabletop
It also promoted All comer lists as well, where you had to bring units that provided and answer against other types of units.
absolutely. i remember well the gimmicks falling short to just base tactics and a solid all rounder list, including some of the "busted lists."
Absolutely fricking based.
The OG FOC was fricking perfect, the Rites of war system that moved some models into being troops was a perfect upgrade to that system.
Formations were a mistake outside of Apoc.
The easiest line in the sand to draw is "did they put the troops section before elites". Never go past that line.
I liked that but I like this more.
Not familiar with HH, what's the difference? What's the difference between support and heavy?
Strategems are a great addition to the game.
No
Not trying to start a fight, but why do you think that?
Currently gathering resources to make a better version of 7th ed.
>Gutting formations as is
>Rebalancing psyker powers
>Charger for formations and implimenting a % lmit on free war gear from them.
or
>Putting in a RoW system
Nu hammer fricking sucks, im sick and fricking tired of the shitty ass game its become. The stupid female custode shit is not even what botehrs me, im just over watching the game i enjoyed and spend countless hours into the late night playing with friends and local stores well past their closing hours because the store owner and I were in teh middle of a game, getting turned to shit.
Im going to fricking play the game i enjoyed, and make it the game i want it to be, im tired of GW pissing on the game that i devoted so much time and energy to. Frick GW, Frick nuhammer, you can play the game you like, you can play the edition you like even if its the nu shit, but im tried of this new wave of players that seem to relish and delight in shitting up the lore, hobby, and enjoying the people who build the company getting shit on.
Yes im salty
Yes im tired,
Yes i just wanna go back to rolling dice.
7th is nuhammer.
do you mark 6th or 7th as the birth of NuHammer? im sure im wrong but I count 3E as oldhammer simply because of the 2e models still forming the core of the armies on launch
7th was awful. not attempting to be an ass at all, but curious to understand WHY you'd want 7th over something like the standard grog formula of 4th with 3rd codices or 3rd with 3rd codices? is it the edition you started with??
Because lets not kid ourselves, 7th with out formations is basically 6th ed.
Im picking 7th becuase it has the most codexes out there for it currently so I would not need to go about trying to back port entire factions and codexs to earlier editions of the game.
>7th with out formations is basically 6th ed.
Yeah and 6th/7th were so bad it nearly killed GW. Only a moron who started with them would think returning to that would be good.
>Only a moron who started with them would think returning to that would be good
my only guess as well; maybe an early nostalgic zoomie?
the 7th core rulebook was great. That wasn't the problem with that edition.
I can only say I enjoyed the early years of the HH which was based on 7th and improved it.
6th started out OK. It was a small rulebook update to the 5th. Then, power creep in codecies got out of hand.
i can't imagine anything id want that 3e/4e doesn't have, model wise. 7th rules bloat is outrageous, psychic phase moronic...I think you might be doing this for yourself, as ive never actually heard anyone speak fondly on 7th
flyers don't belong in a skirmish game.
>I think you might be doing this for yourself,
Yes, i am, thats the version i had the most fun with. That said, im willing to give 4th and 5th a go.
?feature=shared
does a good job of showing the overall gameplay and rule system of 3rd if you're unfamiliar
Thank you anon.
Is there a resource for older editions? Also is anyone working to bring newer armies into older editions/rulesets?
For example i like thousand sons, i think it would be neat to have Sehkmet because i enjoyed them.
all the PDFs are readily available, buried on treasure island.
your sehkmets exist in the 3.5 csm codex. you'll have them in all but name. you'll also be able to create wildly fun and unique units with that book; it's acclaimed as being the best codex ever produced.
my 3e force is sisters as well. just port the castigator as a leman russ unit, as you have the option with the witch hunters codex
Do you happen to have a link to a mega for them?
anons ruined it. go back to the general. find treasure island. you'll know it when you see it. either that or just do a web search. i know gays have struggled to find the 3e book, but it is buried on treasure island because i put it there
3,5ed codex just applying mark of chaos changed unit completly and mark of khorne csm were berzerkers and you could. Als there was addon on cult terminators in chapter approved.
So you can have your ts army -birds(you can use them as lost and damned from eye of terror codex tho) and -Magnus.
PDFs are widely avalible.
Thank you anon.
i did not get a chance to play 3rd so im very new to it, are there supplements and other types of rules? One of my all time favorite supplements was planetary onslaught which i would love to see if 3 had rules for it.
3e had city fight and eye of terror.
break from GW mentally: there's NOTHING AND NOBODY stopping you from taking your beloved book and using its concepts and what rules you can apply to your own games. 3e and 4e had dozens of missions encouraged you to come up with and fight your own. a classic is "Orks Drift"
3rd ed you only need main rulebook, chapter approved(additional rules, rules update and codex errata) and codex. If you are playing space marines it's also neat to find old white dwarf with Index Astates article with rules for this chapter(lik IH having terminator sergants and iron fathers, etc) because SM codex was first codex of edition and didn't get 3,5 version.
As for supplements Codex Cityfight detaling fighting in urban environment existed and it was very good and it's what planetary onslaught was based on.
Lexicanum have full list of codexes and supplements and pdf's shouldn't be dificult to find.
>i can't imagine anything id want that 3e/4e doesn't have, model wise.
Sisters have new stuff I'd miss in playing an older edition (specifically sacresants and the castigator). Agree with you on flyers.
7th is nuhammer, we are now in downfallhammer
Genuinely stupid question. But as someone who likes playing Warhammer but got really soured on 9th to the point of not liking 10th is there an alt way to play warhammer armies like the old days? Sort of like an old school remake, I know there's some issues with newer models. But I just want to recapture moving models on the board and not have to deal with constantly buying codex + monthly rules addendums.
not stupid, you're in the right place. here or grog general. a jaded bunch of gents whose hobby cut ties with gw and moved back towards the golden age. for post 2018gays who joined during a more modern time, i know there is a big gathering around "8th with indexes" rn. too modern for me, but the fans are there
Thanks usually used to getting rude responses from these sort of threads.
Its a weird case for me. 40k just feels slow now. I'm not exactly a Grog but i have an immense love for editions I wasn't around for. (Hobby of mine to read old TTRPG and wargames.)
Been playing guard and 9th was such a headache I almost quit entirely cause it would take like 6 hrs min to do 1 game and I cant spare that sort of time anymore. Its a weird case cause I've played warhammer fantasy with a skaven horde army, Mordhiem weekly with mercs.
But imperial guard I love them but something feels slow about current 40k. I just wish the rules were more pick up and play. I hate memorizing an order list, paying for constant rules updates. and not feeling like im getting anything out of it.
I'm not exactly a meta chaser or anything. i love my simple custom guard regiment. but i just find it exhausting to play and was wondering if there was something snappier. or easier to get into that isnt just KT or "10th but smaller point list"
40k has never been a fast game. In fact the slow speed has been one of the biggest criticisms of it in older editions, which some of the changes in newer editions were supposed to address.
there's a shittube link I posted with some bloke solo running the game. just about every rule comes up. he finds that 3e was lighting quick and snappy which thousands support, as do I.
1500 points was/is the standard for 3e. Plays in about 2 hours, faster if you know the rules.
To excite you and help you understand why there's an obsession with 3E: your 3.5 guard codex makes your boys in khaki and green feel deadly with the karskins, mass amounts of armor, and fantastic points costs.
Maybe I'll check it out and convince someone in my card shop sphere to try it with me. Been also considering One page rules but haven't given that a big read or know what the consensus is on it.
Would newer models even work with 3e? I don't have anything crazy but I know a lot of other armies wouldn't work.
Thanks!.
no fliers and mostly it's all hyper specialized shit that's missing. nearly every army received their legendary 3.5 codex which contained specific sections on army and unit tailoring for yourdudes, like here
a tson player here was asking about his models and he'll be able to have them in all but name.
Thanks. While I'll miss fliers doesn't seem like I'm lacking anything that's here. Been feeling kind of down about 40k as I spent hours making my army and felt like it was a hassle to play And I don't want to bench 'em or sell 'em. So 3rd may look fun.
Thanks Anon's going to see if I can fish up a friend to play.
Im right there with you man, im feeling mad down about 40k, have been since 8th psycic awakening, i could tolerate 8th until then.
7th was my best memories but it was because our group was not made up of morons and we never really had arugments over the rules ever. 6th and 7th just blur together for me, i did not get enough games of 5th in to really say i played it.
I’m just exhausted by it honestly. I tire of the increasing expensiveness of mandatory codex, the smugness from both sides of the culture war, I tire of having to have armies changed every few months because some autismo’s play tested with meta builds. I tire of the fact that my basic army gets tabled, not because of bad rolls, tactics, or outmaneuvered but because the army I’m fighting has got special rules that is an I win button, I tire of the fact that this cycle repeats every few years.
All I want to do is play a few games with friends and just have some stories to tell.
It’s exhausting how it’s becoming increasingly hard to enjoy a hobby without the bullshit.
>All I want to do is play a few games with friends and just have some stories to tell.
Bro im with you, still my best memory ever of the hobby was winning the store comp for Armies on parade to get the gold Death wing metal, and playing Herald of Ruin in 7th ed (Which is where most of my 7th ed love comes from) where i delivered the emperors elbow from the top rope with a terminator power fist, i have told that story a few times here.
Look forward to playing older editions. You will only know then how empty your cup was once it was filled by the joys of 3E
>the smugness from both sides of the culture war
Preach
>muh both sides are bad argument
Ah yes, the enlightened fence sitter. That pain in your ass is from the fence pole jammed up it from you sitting on top of it for so long. The thing you don't seem to grasp, is that it's only ever 1 side that attacks and ruins these hobbies. 1 side is constantly trying to change what you love and the other side is trying to stop them and you, have decided that you hate both sides? You are the reason your beloved hobby is in the state it is.
From my point of view, all of you fricks that started after 2008 are already cancer. GW pandered to you first and now it's time to farm another demographic of c**ts.
What's the point in blaming someone for starting in an edition that was fricked up by the company making them?
If you started in a shit edition and bought the shit they put out, then you enabled GW's bullshit and directly contributed to all of this.
In terms of flyers guard can use them and have lot of them in Imperial Armour books, alongside baneblade and multiple leman russ variants, but you should ask your opponent before using IA rules.
Im probably going to get shit on for this, because it is nu hammer slop, but i will give GW credit where credit is due.
Knights really hit home for me, is there any possible way to see them being back ported? I know its most likely not going to be a thing, but i figured i would ask.
You're right, you will get shit on, including by this anon. They're an eyesore, don't fit the aesthetic, lore was weak, and strangely balanced on the table. keep in mind, most oldgays revert additions to get away from models and armies like the knights. Honestly, whatever you like about them can probably be found in a different faction codex in 3e and yourduded up to feel the same
I don't agree with the idea of them being ugly or out of place in the world, but they absolutely don't belong on the tabletop at this scale.
Knights are shit.
While design and lore wise it's up to personal preferences, rulewise having superheavies outside apocalypse was a mistake, biggest mistake of 6th and 7th ed outside of completely unbalanced codexes. They can be ported, everything can be ported but I won't tell you how.
Yeah i figured as much, i just enjoyed the idea of knightly houses and big ass robots going to war with like house guard, if i were to do it, it would be only like 1, MAYBE 2 knights on the table, but then everything else was guard that would be there house milita. Basically treat he knights as guard heavy armor.
>house milita
there's your new project for the future of your hobby, going back to 3E for actual fun: a custom guard army from a feudal world, riding their "steeds" of named heavy armor units into battle. commisars kitbashed with medieval shit, their attached units painted in personal heraldry, a big menagerie of color like the bretonnia armies of old
oH I already have it! i used the solar aux because i loved their models for guards men.
certainly they are nusovl, good taste anon
Holy shit, guard gays are pathetic.
Nuhammer got almost everything wrong, but abolising the moron organization charts, introducing primarchs, fliers and knights were not among those things.
A war in such a setting is much more than dudes hitting or shooting each other in an alley with 3-4 vehicles per side at best, as support.
I swear there are some morons who want to go back to the fricking stone age of the hobby.
Keep the best and leave the rest.
Frick off 3rd and 4th ed gays.
If some has a knight army or primarchs or fliers or what have you, they deserve to have fun too, not ask for permission to play the way they want to.
>abolising the moron organization charts
I too love Elite spam
>introducing primarchs
Stopped reading right there
Herohammer always has been and always will be part of the game. Deal with it.
The real challenge is how to make it just a viable option and not a no brainer for evr8nkery list.
you're a moronic newbie
Frick off moron I've been playing since 1998.
well you played the game wrong and you're moronic
Why do you enter a thread knowing full well it will have stuff that makes you upset? That can't be healthy for your mental well-being.
A full army of knights is quite moronic. Some of the other real armies have been ported.
Playable primarchs was a mistake, even blanche doesn't like them on the table.
“Please” return to your containment game, opinions this trash are not needed here
>"the hobby. the HOBBY!"
pic rel
>If some has a knight army or primarchs or fliers or what have you, they deserve to have fun too
No, actually, what they deserve is a slow death but sadly we live in a civilised society and must abide by the laws of men.
Vehicle design rules are in Chapter Approved that allow you to backport newer units. Your Knights will be overcosted and require your opponent's permission to use. But it's there if you really want to.
It's also how you can get AdMech and Votann. You can use Guard doctrines with vehicle design rules to make the lists. Again, you will need opponent's permission for the vehicles and the rest of your army will be overcosted.
I’m sorry, anon, but this concept is flawed from the outset. Super-heavies (such as knights) and flyers represent the worst of the power- and rulescreep that have made new 40k such a mess. I could write a giant carepost about it (again), but I’d rather not. Instead, I’d urge to try 3rd edition as it is before trying to alter it.
Got it right here if you want a pic from some page
fvck get ready for the SOVL.....regimental doctrines was how you made YOURDUDES. this is the codex where the diehard guard players were born
I can't find that in the GROG folder
3rd is best edition for Guard, they got excelent 3,5 codex with regimental doctrines that changed how your regiment played with heavy yourdudes build your own regiment, nice wargear options etc, your officer could have special rules from having medal or signature item like cane or cigar.
Just if you want to play 3rd you need chapter approved alongside main rulebook because rules for some things like transports changed during edition.
Or you can just play 4th ed, guard still use 3,5 codex there.
Bolt Action is the game you are looking for. It is like 3E 40K even more refined with more fun rules.
>it would take like 6 hrs min to do 1 game
So THIS is the power of grogs..
Just apply yourself a little. Russians have uploaded pretty much every book from 3rd and 4th edition, you can find most of them by using any search engine. Many of them are even on archive.org
I bring knowledge to all of you my lost children:
4th is third edition with just some fixes, it is the gold standard. For the most part is the best 40k edition and probably the only decent one.
It has some weak spots like consolidatong in to melee creating super big boring balls of squads hitting eachother for the rest of the game. Also you can snipe models by forcing LOS but that has not been a real issue for us, it also means that squads with special guns expose more models than just the big guns.
Target checks are not that bad wen you realize that only afects when targeting infantry.
Rending was a bit broken when shooting.
Static gun lines don't work against competent players, this edition requires maneuvering or you will be obliterated by drop pods, genestealers, monoliths, basilisks or a farsight death bomb.
Codex books are good to meh and some are a bit broken.
Early ones are great like Tau, Marines and nids, there is a change of style to 5th edition layout that is boring and a downgrade in terms of customization and power level, chaos and dark angels are the most afected, eldars and orks are the strongest books.
3d edition codex are compatible and viable. 3d edition guard is a bit boring.
Imperial armour books are amazing, great campaigns, super thematic, you also get cool army lists for traitor guad, or elysian.
Regarding 5th, a lot of people started here and has good memories but it's very flawed. If you read White dwarf it's very clear that this is the point where GW went full corpo, model and power creep started here also finecast.
Vehicle rules are worse.
Going to ground was exploitable.
Wound allocation was game breaking and very exploitable.
True LOS was bad and also invalidated many scenary pieces.
Running messed up the balance and made the middle board unattractive for fragile troops, the ones that were also required to cap points.
Broken codex books beyond any imagination, grey knights, dark eldar, nucrones etc
Tyranids were butchered with many unnecessary models fragmentating the role of carnifexes in to many other creatures, options are gone.
Overall 5th is just a straight downgrade from 4th.
Both editions could use a melee rework since it is quite a boring system with no actual gameplay choices.
>Static gun lines don't work against competent players, this edition requires maneuvering or you will be obliterated by drop pods, genestealers, monoliths, basilisks or a farsight death bomb.
Codex books are good to meh and some are a bit broken.
>Early ones are great like Tau,
>Like Tau
Oh ok, you're an assblasted weeb mad about losing your triple ion suits kek. You boomer autists pop up every now and then when GW shafts your codex to try to recruit for when the game was "better" then you quit when nobody joins your troon discord.
Ok I will take the bait. Tell me what's your issue today?
4th edition tau are too strong for you? Literally middle of the pack army in terms of balance, crisis suits can JSJ and also get instant death against S8 guns.
Maybe you belive 4th edition tau are stronger than 3d in some way? Not really since plasma suits were cheaper during 3d and 4th added 2 useles characters and 4 tematic but not competitive profiles.
Then your issue are gun lines? In the edition were you can get raped by full drop pod lists with 2 librarians that can make half your army run away from the table edge.
Then your issue is that people can like tau, a faction made by the same people that did all your other favorite toy soldiers including Jess the Weeb that added a lot more japanese stuff in eldar designs and really liked patlabor, even if then its just a small part of the influences, the others being indian history, nato interventionism, iraq war etc.
And finally if your issue is triple ion nonsense, you are lucky. 4th edition suits can only carry 2 guns (unless TL) ions are mediocre and limited to 1 in the entire army. 3 guns per suit looks bad and was a design mistake triggered by the unstoppable power creep of newer editions. In 4th edition all the crisis guns are useful with the right combinations.
Do you want tips for other factions I play them every week thats more than your single game per year nu hammer gay.
>weeb
>boomer
>autists
>troon
There's a lot to unpack here, are you okay anon? Who hurt you?
Trips demand I answer
There's a lot to unpack here, are you okay anon? Who hurt you?
Bunch of midlifers who use toy soldier meta chaser as a substitute for accomplishment. Had to play their crap
every weekend and it was always the same guy making other people quit.
>4th edition tau are too strong for you?
Nah I played Necrons. Funny as hell
when their skimmer wall was wrecked and they were hiding in a corner with their useless plasma rifle/missile suits because I wasn't a marine kid they could snipe and run from
>Reee reeee reee reee nuhammer
Better balance right now and more consistent updates. Playerbase is as shitty as it ever is but at least the WAACgays burn out faster from rebuying their army every six months.
>more consistent updates
Yeah man love a redshirt trying to sell me army books and index cards that are already out of date. It's gonna be unbalanced no matter what they do.
Who are you trying to impress tough boy?
custodes may be retconned into women, but you will never be a woman
Nta but take your pity (you) and go shit up another thread. You’re not even good at this.
dilate
WD article that corroborates the update that you speak of
Great times with 3rd ed. Got me into the hobby.
>Return to 3rd.
I very much want to but my friend REFUSES to play anything other than *current edition* no matter what.
I hate stratagems so much...
I still want to understand the must play the new edition mindset but I don't think I ever will. The amount of conversations I've had or seen where people are grumbling about the changes, they hate everything different, they wish it didn't happen, and then they shrug their shoulders and play a round of current edition anyway.
Most people play pickup games with randos at the LGS or GW. That necessitates a lingua franca and that's going to be the current edition. A lot if people also have delusions of being tournament players and most "community members" are secondaries and tertiaries anyway and only want to join the only conversation.
Now if you have a club and the club can't be fricked to play an older edition despite hating the current one, the you're all a bunch of gays.
Sometimes you get a perfect answer that should be memorised and this is it, the delusion of 'one day I'll go pro' needs to die. There's also just something fricking weird about many GW fans and their abusive relationship with GW
Happened to me recently. Saw some people in my local wargaming scene FB group grumbling about the AOS armies being squatted and suggested if they don't like it, to just keep playing whatever they are now. They flipped out at me and unironically said they'd rather just outright quit than play something that isn't the latest product. I'd consider the reasoning of
a reasonable excuse, except these aren't people that are playing pickup games, 99% of the time it's the same half-dozen guys playing with each other at the store twice a month. It's crazy to me how GW has somehow managed to cultivate a fanbase of players so meek that they're utterly terrified of falling off the CURRENT THING treadmill.
Time for a Mexican standoff - you need to refuse to play Current Edition until he at least compromises and agrees to alternate. If he won't do that, he's not a friend just someone who sees you as an easy source of games, so eject that homosexual and find some proper gaming buds.
>Return to 3rd. Or maybe 4th edition rulebook with the 3rd edition codexes at its release
guess what, I planned basically this from 6-7ed
I actually played a game of 3ed this sunday, 1500 points of Tyranids vs Dark Angels. Next time we're planning a boarding action, Eldars vs Necrons. I love 3rd ed, it's peak 40K.
Reject nu hammer embrace oldhammer
9th newbie here. Me and my friend would like to try the golden age cause it looks really cool and 10th is mind-numbingly boring. Should we go for 3rd, 4th or 5th? I'm thinking 4th, but we're open to suggestions.
4th with 4th edition codex or with 3.5 codex, both options are good.
If you tell me the factions I can help you more.
Orks (Axez) and Marines (Salamanders). I would very much like to adapt Snikrot.
The profile already exists in 3rd and 4th
Try both codex and find the one that feels better, the 4th ed one is stronger but has the 5th edition layout with less customization.
4th edition space marines have some traits to represent custom chapters.
If you want extra opinions for an especific troop or topic go to dakkadaka and search in the forum, then go to the last page, almost all threads start at the beginning of 4th edition.
>customization
How difficult is it to make custom troops and vehicles anyways? I'm glad to see Snikrot is already in, but I would also like to adapt the Kill Rig.
Very easy in the codex approved book you have rules to make custom imperial tanks, also the 3rd edition ork codex let's you play with looted tanks. People did amazing stuff with customized toys.
Additionally you have extra ork profiles in the forge world imperial armour books.
>How difficult is it to make custom troops and vehicles anyways?
There's some 3rd ed chapter approved with rules to make any kind of vehicle
Not that hard, but you do need to do some guesswork if you aren't using the custom vehicle design rules.
I found the CA sections anon over here
mentioned (they are in '02 and '04), but the datacard shown in the book seems different (and far less customizable) than yours.
Side note, nice to see this is where the Swordfish came. I remember playing some DoW mods that featured it (been a DoW secondary for a very long time).
here it is
No no, that's not what I mean, I located those pages. I was just inquiring about where could I find the template to make a datasheet like yours. Although, I guess I could just replicate it with Writer or Word.
A buddy and I are playing a campaign on Armageddon with very nearly this army/edition setup. The only difference is that he plays Bad Moonz.
Having played all those, my vote is for 4th with 3rd-ed codices. 5th or 3rd are fine second choices, though 3rd has an absolute ton of errata and supplementals you need to catch up on.
I'll take that into account. Thanks fren.
Awesome. Looks like we'll be right at home. Thanks to you too, fren.
You know what? I didn't even stop to consider we were Armageddon-ready. That's great!
>Return to 3rd. Or maybe 4th edition rulebook with the 3rd edition codexes at its release
Holy shit. I thought I was the only one thinking this.
For me it's Oldmunda, the best game GW ever made.
I am still searching for 3rd ed oriignal codexes (I priorize older codexes over newer ones, i look at you, CSM). Maybe in a fuure we should adapt new forces to 3rd ed. in a kind of fan fixed edition. No primaris, just better scaled marines.
What do people think about organizing a group to play online via tabletop simulator? I know a source of pdfs, and the resources are all available. Nu40k and Horus Heresy both have pretty solid groups there.
Do you want pdfs or the actual books?
Pretty sure the /grog/ MEGA has them
I just go to Higherintellect. They got all the 3rd and 4th codexes and rule books there (at least I think so).
My man, I love 3e
If anyone is in New Jersey we play 3e and ToW a lot at Time Warp Comics and Games in Cedar Grove. Come by on Thursday nights.
I'm about two hours away, but shit I might have to check this place out at some point. 3rd was my jam.
Lol, the Osgiliath ruins and tower.
Playing 40k with terrain pieces meant for completely different games is classic wargaming SOVL!
>GW streamlines 40k
>They frick it up with bloat
>GW streamlines 40k
>They frick it up with bloat
How does this keep happening?
Would i better off playing one of the grognard editions or the one page rules game? I tried 8th ed when it was out and got filtered by the rules bloat.
8e isn't too bad if you ignore Primaris and everything after Index
8e was fairly adequate until the game obliterating 2nd space marine codex (unless you happened to like deathwatch or genestealer cults)
OPR as much as I like it. Has the issue of being too simple (funnily enough it is a way better game than 9th and 10th), but it is a good enough game just to play something different without much effort.
Why do people play 40k?
The lore is raped constantly. GW has no respect at all for it.
The rules change literally all the time, usually for the worse. It's a waste of time to learn the rules because they have already changed by the time you internalized them.
The models are comically overpriced and most aren't cool.
Is it just stockholm syndrome? Sunk cost fallacy?
its a captive audience
Because we already have the models and 4th edition is a closed game full of content.
Don't get me wrong it's by no means our main game, it's not great just decent enough to have some nostalgia fun.
Playing 3.5, which armies benefits from jumping to a 4ed Codex too? Customization-wise obviously. Pretty sure that's the case for SM and maybe Nids? No idea about the others though.
Space Marines, Tau, Nids, Eldar 4e + 3e Craftworlds, Dark Eldar need 5e, Orks should arguably get a frankenstein book made from 3e options with 4e profiles. Necrons should also use 5e with broken stuff ripped out, because having less than five usable units is shit.
The Ork and Eldar codices from 4th are better than what they got in 3rd too. Honestly, if I was going to play 3rd I would probably only run the pre-Cityfight codices and WD army lists, once you start getting into the 3.5 era you almost need to start cherrypicking 4th ed codices to bring the earlier-released factions up to standard.
Orks 4th are much stronger but also blander.
Ideally, you use 4th but with 3rd options on gear and upgrades.
I loved 4th edition but it does need a cleanup. Unfortunately no one can decide on what parts need that so there's been a whole bunch of fan versions that change whatever the creators personal hang up is but do absolutely nothing about command or activations, which is frequently the most interesting thing to add to wargames. Flat igougo is a slog.
>People want to play oldgame because it's got less bloat and bullshit in it
>Hey u guise, know what we should add to oldgame? Bloat and bullshit!
Flat IGOUGO is not only fine, it's good and AAgays should get the rope. Having a solid couple of minutes to sit back and appreciate the overall tactical situation and amend your plans without sitting there gurning and wasting your opponent's time is a good thing, actually, and every attempt at "command or activations" tweaking at reinforced platoon-scale wargames I've seen results in one of two things; a system that's ludicrously overtuned and shouldn't be used at anything less than battalion-scale, or an inevitable reduction of the whole game to whatever version of "turn zero" the system went with and so placing even more emphasis on listbuilding and pregame trickery instead of actual, on-table tactical thinking.
And the irony of an AAgay accusing everyone else of focusing on their personal hangups to the detriment of efforts to improve the game is just *chef's kiss* beautiful, absolutely peak unselfawareness right there, your post should be in a museum.
The reality is people need to get away from the design by committee mentality entirely. Pick a baseline, form a group, and change it how *you* like rather than trying to argue the toss with a bunch of online weenies.
All good games have command and activation rules. If that would make the game bloated, cut something else so you can fit it in. Warhammer is at it's worst a tedious mess of half hour turns where all you do is roll armor saves, which is fake gameplay anyway. It's literally only there so the other player has something to do. You may as well simply walk away from the table for all you can affect during your opponents turn. This is a direct address to a major flaw of the game everyone homeruling is always too afraid to tackle.
*chef's kiss* my ass you homo.
*All the games you like have command and activation rules. But we've established that you're a moron so your opinion isn't relevant. People aren't "afraid to tackle" it, they don't agree with your dumb ass that it needs to be tackled. If you don't want to play old 40K, frick off out of the "let's talk about playing old 40K" thread, you absolute mongoloid.
>All the games you like have command and activation rules
Yeah the good ones. Warhammer would be good if they did that too. Instead you literally pretend to still be playing the game by rolling dice that your opponent could be rolling just to maintain a facade of interactivity during their turn. I think you should just keep crying really hard. You can always pretend it means anything if you want to.
>NOOO, ONLY THE GAMES I LIKE ARE GOOD WARGAMES, AND EVERYTHING ELSE IS BABY PRETEND GAMES
also pic related.
>NOOO, ONLY THE GAMES I LIKE ARE GOOD WARGAMES, AND EVERYTHING ELSE IS BABY PRETEND GAMES
You forgot the gigachad image. Even the good warhammer games are the ones with command and activation rules.
Then go off and shit up the threads dedicated to those, you are clearly not welcome nor wanted here.
It's just you crying that I said 4th edition should have a command system. If anyone else wants to have a big sook about that they're free to as well though.
Slagging you off ain't crying buddy, and it's not just one person. Your ideas are dumb, you're dumb, you already have a thread to discuss your shitty games played by three people in Guadalupe , depart there hence and may you enjoy your time there as much as we will enjoy your absence.
Recommend me a good scifi wargame anon, I don't know of any
Infinity N3 was great but now it doesn't have any updates to fix the current mess of N4
A buddy has been shilling infinity for years, it's worse now ?
I'll check those out over the weekend, thanks for the suggestions
I’m not that anon, but here are a few good sci-fi war games:
Tomorrow’s War
Dirtside 2 and Stargrunt 2
Epic: Armageddon
MAC (Mobile Armor Colossus) Attack
All but Tomorrow’s War are available for free.
All of those are shit compared to 40k tho
Epic Armageddon is literally the best GW ruleset.
I think epic will end up being game I really wanted to play. 40k is kind of mashy.
Someday you will realize how mediocre warhammer is compared to other wargames.
Someday you'll realise that different rulesets are attempting to achieve different ends, and not everyone is an autistic armchair general that wants to LARP at attending officer candidate school.
Superheavies should be in the game, as a specific narrative game type representing a desperate ambush on a vehicle attempting to reach the front lines. It should have additional deployment and force composition rules, like a siege game type would.
Honestly, I think they're fine as "opponent's permission". The real problem is people trying to use them create disgusting WAACshit. If your opponent and you want to play a giant game and bring a baneblade, that's cool, and good.
This is more like it. Remember, 40k is not Games Workshop. It's not the models, or the books. It's the community. Updating rules is easy. 3d printing your own models is easy. Having fun with your own creations is easy.
Stop gnashing your teeth about stuff you can't do anything about, leave it to rot and focus on building something for yourself. Making some minor updates and tweaks to 3rd edition rules with the lessons we've learned since then sounds great.
I'm basically a secondary (played a couple of games in 9th). How hard is it to get into 3/4th and do people even play it in TTS (chances of finding people to play 10th where I am are slim, for 3rd — infinitesimal)
>How hard is it to get into 3/4th
Not hard at all, mate. The PDFs are all there to be found online quite easily.
>and do people even play it in TTS
Now that I don't know, never bothered with TTS myself since I have easy access to in person games. Sorry your area sucks for finding players, mate.
Me and some friends went to Warhammer World a few weeks ago and played 4th, it was a fun day but 4th has not aged well. It's just so dated and a lot of elements of it lead to a negative play experience.
We've recently been playing 10th at 1k with highlander rules for everything but battleline and its fun. Just don't play with tourney spergs and ITC and other weirdos and its fine.
> It's just so dated and a lot of elements of it lead to a negative play experience.
homie those are fighting words in this thread. Be specific about the dated elements and what you didn’t like about them.
The game overall has a very high random element especially concerning vehicles. Missions are poorly balanced and even though a lot of them will be decided in the first few turns they're usually not scored until the end of the game meaning there's a lot of going through the motions. Charts and tables were dated at the time and are even more so now, they're also largely unnecessary. You have basically nothing to do in your opponents turn other than roll saves and the occasional attack. Template weapons, and this pains me to say because I want to love them, are a balance nightmare that slow down play. Dreadnoughts fricking suck and are a completely waste of time and points. Among other things.
There's plenty that I did like and would like to see in modern 40k. Vehicles should be immune to small arms, it adds an element of positional play that is missing in the modern game and also moves us away from the utter tedium of the focus on the mathematically best unit against every target type that dominates the game currently. Anti tank units kill tanks, that's their job and them having that job that other units can't do by just rolling 6's is a good thing. It also pairs well with the rules for shooting the closest target, which I would also like to see come back, using vehicles for mobile cover is not only viable in 4th but it thematically works better. The morale rules in previous editions where also more robust and something sorely lacking in the modern game. Unit customisation and freedom of list building were all obviously better and I'd like a return to that.
Like I say I enjoyed playing 4th and I'd do it again at some point since nostalgia is a hell of a drug but I don't want to play it every week, it just wasn't as good as my memories of playing it as a child because lets face it most things aren't. Playing 10th with the mentality of how we used to play 4th is working out well for my group so far.
>Dreadnoughts fricking suck and are a completely waste of time and points.
Opinion discarded. Dirt cheap with the best space marine gun and dropeable by drop pod. It's very hard to not get you points back every single game you use them.
Templates are one of the only ways to avoid moronic parking lots of tanks or balls of infantry trying to exploit every tiny piece of cover.
Do you really want to know what is the best about 4th edition? Fricking centimeters, the game was ported to theetric system.
It's staggering how wrong and moronic you are. It is common knowledge that dreadnought were always shit. They're easy to kill, easy to shut down with basic b***h horde infantry. You have never played 4th and are just some moronic grifter tourist.
I have news from 2004 your common knowledge is wrong go check dakkadakka if you don't belive me.
135 points buys you a unit that can deal with any squad on the table.
You can easily get your 135 points back in the same turn he arrives.
>135 points buys you a unit that can deal with any squad on the table.
Except it literally can't do that you fricking cretin.
>check dakkadakka
>all the morons on a defunct shit hole agree with me
ok.
Last honest chance.
4 shots of the best marine gun strength 6 rending + 4 assault bolter shots and 2+1 I4 power fist attacks to finish it off and that can be deployed anywhere on the table includig behind enemy tanks (extra pen dice with rending against vehicles by the way) or close to expensive and vulnerable squads like broadsides or dark reapers anything goes, you can choose to be far away from any source of danger, you don't even have to fear impassable terrain or enemy units while deep striking with the pod. Only strength 6+ guns can scratch you. All that for the cost of a line squad 105+30p, basic unequipped terminators are 40 points each, this thing + a drop pod will mess up at the very least one enemy unit for 135 points.
If that's not good for you nuhammer has rotted your brain.
>negative play experience
Every time I see these words I know they were typed by some west coast emasculated boi who self-refers as a game "dev," has done away with business cards for "exchanging socials," and makes way too many jokes about "kissing the boys goodnight" and eating each others' ass. You just know.
You cannot be Dev if your allergy list is as long as your pronouns. Dev eats curry that makes my head sweat and would make your feeble stomach collapse into the Eye of Terror in protest. Dev plays Crimson Fists, he's married with kids, generally a chill guy, and absolutely based.
Anyway, you're either replying to a troll or a secondary. Thought you should know, then got distracted.
>secondary
Nice buzzword, which youtuber did you learn it from?
The only people who use the term secondary are secondaries.
>Be specific about the dated elements and what you didn’t like about them
Nta, but here's my issues with 4th:
>all or nothing AP
A major step back from the previous edition, rightly reinstated in modern editions.
>no penalties to hit for cover or range
A Space Marine in 4th Edition who is firing from inside a bunker at maximum range is just as vulnerable to a bolt round as if he were standing ten feet away over open ground.
>firing by squad, not by weapon
Sorry anon, I know you want to fire your missile launcher, but because I took a step this turn and I'm in the same squad as you I'm afraid it's simply impossible for you to fire. And next turn I intend to fire my bolter at those Gretchin, so you'll not be able to destroy that Trukk; you must fire on the Gretchin too. Thanks for understanding mate.
This is all stuff that irritated me as a teenager who started in with 4th ed, and it's nothing fixable- it's holes in the core rules of the game. I can't even call them "dated"; they were new issues introduced to the game in the interests of convincing players that they needed more models on the table for a "proper" battle.
Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't turn down a game of 4th if offered by a friend or even a stranger, but it was never all that.
why would I play a game where a flyrant takes 60 multimelta shots to kill?
I only play 3rd edition 40k and 6th ed WHFB. And all my club does the same (+50 members active). I’m happy. Frick israelites.
You've reached the promised land
Been wanting to return to 5th for some time but I both read and remember that vehicles were pretty oppressive. I’ve also seen the biggest reason for that change was the changed damage table from 4th->5th where back in 4th a glancing blow could still destroy a vehicle. Would reverting that change be enough to fix 5th?
No, 5th is a mess, try 4th
Is 5th the flyer edition?
Yeah, first edition to use them. Part of why I prefer 4th.
IIRC didnt they include flyers, but then like never actually added a way to shoot them down without another flyer? I remember them adding FLAKK missles but never gave points for them until the next edition.
Actually the first imperial armour books had planes during late 3rd early 4th but clearly intended as apocalypse or special scenario units, they had rules for anti air fire and air to air fire.
Herohammer is the gayest fricking shit ever. Yourdudes should be lead by yourcommander, not a fricking living legend of the lore that is a 10000 year old demigod immortal that can be brained by pointing lasguns at him
Doesn't herohammer include having a bunch of yourcommanders going around doing the heavy lifting? It just means having armies built around characters.
It does. No idea what drunk anon is going on about. There's something charming and fun about 2E focus on herohammer that is missing in 3E, and something positive and negative to be said about both. Having started in 2e, I enjoy "mydude of mydudes" being a ball dragging big dick hitter, but balance does go out the window pretty quickly, as it did in 2e
Nah, I'm going to play 8th edition indexhammer, and I'm going to enjoy it.
I'm all on board with stripping the corpse of 40k and making it our own. Is there any reason we couldn't just use the lore up to a certain point (say everything before primaris) and using the one page rules as the game engine? I think alternating activations makes for a better game since there's less waiting around for players between turns and players can be more reactive rather than spending 45 minutes watching their opponent delete half their army off the table before they can retaliate.
That's an easy way. Hell, it's generally easier than convincing people to play older editions because you can type up their army list in five minutes and hand it to them. It's absolutely generic beer and pretzels at best though.
Easy is the point. It's the path of least resistance for hobbyists to quickly pivot away from Gaymes Wokeshit. It's one viral meme away from reality. The barrier of entry is $5 for the one page rules pdf. Getting bogged down rewriting GW trash takes time the hobby doesn't have, and might even attract legal attention.
Yeah but the game is simple to a fault. It's easy to start, hard to maintain. It's definitely not sustaining an entire community once everyone realizes all their armies play the same with a single stat difference and maybe fast/slow.
Keep crying baby.
I think players were already figuring that out that their plastic men are basically identical, it's probably why they added all those goofy ass gotcha stratagems.
Yeah its dead simple. Maybe quality could be split into fight/shoot/morale, but that would mean redoing all of the points calculations of the system.
The game is so locked to its simplicity and the appeal is also in its simplicity, so there's no real point in trying to make it more complicated even to fix obvious faults. It'd be easier to make a new game lol.
But all warhammer editions are shit editions. Funding GW itself is already an ethical quandary if you're trying to minimize shit.
>But all warhammer editions are shit editions
Typical mentality for a person who started in 5th Ed. 40k / 7th Ed. WFB.
>Is there any reason we couldn't just use the lore up to a certain point (say everything before primaris) and using the one page rules as the game engine?
There is nothing stopping. However, the people making these threads don't want to do that. They want to keep making these threads.
>Is there any reason we couldn't just use the lore up to a certain point
I already do this with Gathering Storm onward. Would be kino if writegays started an AU where none of the new bullshit happened and the Imperium is still a stagnant hellhole
newbie here too. I'm a little confused about the situation of using 3rd Codexes with the 4th Rulebook, are these editions so similar the books are interchangeable? Is 4th just an update to 3rd?
Yes.
3rd through 7th (and even HH1 and 2) are fundamentally the same game. Changes do compound, so using a 3e codex in 7e would require tweaking, but the difference between 3 and 4 is so small that some 3e books were used well into 5e.
Because of these threads I started on my own oldhammer retroclone to play with my friends. I literally can't do worse than GW, and it's not gonna be commercial anyways so any "shitty" changes I make only exist because 8 people wanted it to be that way.
Thanks for the inspiration.
Hell yeah, anon, I hope you and your friends have fun sperging out with your own rules set. I did the same with my Dogs of War army book for WHFB 6E.
>Or maybe 4th edition rulebook with the 3rd edition codexes at its release
Not a bad idea actually.
I mostly only painted during 3rd and 4th. Is this codex 3rd? I can’t remember
That's third, yes.
Thanks anons, I'm curious about 3rd and want to give it a go.
I had no one to play with at the time so I never paid much attention to what edition was current when I picked up the codex for painting reference.
Nice to know I at least have the codex for my main army.
Yes, Dark Angels and Dark Eldar both got a slightly edited and re-released codex in third
IG and (famously) Chaos too.
I was splitting hairs anon, Chaos and IG got wholly new codexes whilst DA and DE got the same codex just errata'd
Looks like it to me.
Anyone have the old creature feature rules?
If you know which WD it is I can dig it out sometime the next few days, I have every issue from around 189 to 320ish stashed away in the loft
It's kinda weird, I've started to miss templates
I always did.
t. sob guy
Are there any good list building programs for 3rd or 4th? Or is pen and paper the way to go?
there's a battlescribe dataset for 3rd, some factions aren't 100% accurate tho
I like 4th ed.
I like boobs bigly.
4th edition rulebook with 3rd edition codexes is peak 40K. Everything else that came after that is worse.
4th Edition with HH Reactions and backported units/armies. Could it be kino?
At this point, I'd just frankenstein my favorite edition together.
>4th Edition base
>Mostly 3e books and some backported stuff
>Reactions
>Hull points but conservative
>Cover modifies to hit roll
>Movement value
>Minor psychic powers
>Walkers are monstrous creatures
>Light keyword system to delineate effectiveness of different types of weapons against different types of units
>AP modifies armor
>Skimmers and consolidating into melee unfricked
>Everyone gets Morale nerfs across the board to make it matter more and a failed Break test can have different results like getting pinned or shooting with shitty BS at the nearest target
Off the top of my head.
WTF are you me?
People on /40kg/ were talking about a 4th edition fan supported edition with backported models post released after 4th edition added to the roster of usable models.
Maybe its time to take inspiration from Warhammer Armies Project and make our own version of Warhammer 40k?
If you think about it, it might work out quite nicely. We can use Wahapedia to get the stats of the new models and there will be a nice balance of alternatives for Warhammer 40k if GW screws up an edition.
>fan made fourth edition for those who like crunch and are more 40k purists
>OPR for those who like shrimplified and hate IGOUGO
Let a man dream, but are you guys on board with making this dream a reality?
The hardest part with a project like this is the administration of it. Someone has to set up a Facebook group/discord server/website, take responsibility for maintaining everything while also not getting full creative control, setting up a system for contributions or picking contributors, a voting system, and all the other administrative work. Then actually keeping the grogs focused enough to actually work on the project.
But it has happened before, WAP, 9th Age, Broheim, Net Epic, WMR, so maybe someone will do it.
I agree with you anon, but remember that a community can get set up somehow.
I kind of yearn for the days of when /tg/ would get shit done.
I wouldn't mind doing it (the admin work) personally, I have done moderator work before on a forum but these days I'd rather just set up a discord server. I suppose the worst that could happen is that I waste an afternoon one weekend setting it up, making a thread, then crossposting to /grog/ and /40kg/ looking for contributors only to get zero responses.
There is apparently 8 people (if I counted right) in this thread alone talking about doing this alone. Maybe they could handle having to reach a consensus with others.
>3 hours ago
Still here?
There's now a homebrew thread on it, anon.
Its called "Project Fourkhammer"
Honestly what's funny about this going on, is this is starting to look like a WotC and Pizo thing all over again where WotC made their own competition when they moved from 3.5e to 4th.
Disenfranchised a bunch of their fans who all said frick it, we will make our own.
Then bam, pathfinder.
Paizo was a company that was publishing modules and a magazine for 3.5
They only made PF because WotC stopped selling 3.5 books and the license for 4e was intentionally terrible.
>AP modifies armor
Mmmmm no
I would suggest doing it this way
AP < sv value equals no save
AP > sc value equals a save
AP = SV value equals save -1 (ie AP 2 weapon vs sv 2+ becomes a 3+)
This gives termites the much needed but they need, especially in earlier renditions where the 1 wound termite was rough but also makes it so you have to bring the right tools for the right jobs
Also if you are home brewing that much, look into using breaching(x/y) where x is the to wound value and y is the value the AP goes up to that AP.
Example chain weapons would be breaching 6/3, roll a 6 to wound it's an AP 3
Please go back to your 7th edition baby containment game.
>Hull points but conservative
To the trash it goes.
Most of your ideas don't fix anything and cause new issues.
Do you think I give a rat's ass about fixing anything?
No, but since you are sharing your terrible ideas I'm free to tell you how moronic they are.
HH is the perfect comfy zone for me right now but I would like to play an older edition of 40k with my 3rd ed style nids at some point
>if I ever paint the rest of the army other than the tyrant and carnifex
I fricking hate strategems.
Is there any good fan rules that import alternating turns into 4th ed rules? Off the top of my head I can’t think why alternating turns wouldn’t work out of the box. Not sure what you’d need to change
While you'd definitely have a couple hiccups, yeah I thought it would be worth a shot just to quickly play out all turn sequence with one unit at a time. You might want to collapse it down further than that but I don't see too many reasons you couldn't. You'd just mostly need to address things like multiple melees.
The melee would just count as whoever is in the melee's activation?
Yeah, it's just when you have multiple melees in a row. Like someone charges someone, then three other units charge the same dudes in later activations. You generally would either go "you only fight back once" or fight back but with a degraded statline.
I think perhaps adapting the MESGB turn structure might be a smoother solution. Roll at top of game turn for priority, then take turns going through each game phase. Both players do their movement phase, shoot, combat, whatever until the turn runs down and you start again.
Sell me on fourth edition.
Why is it so good? What does it have that makes it so good?
>t. was finally able to afford Warhammer during 8th edition
what is the best way to play old apocalypse?
i think we mainly played apocalypse in 4th edition
4th ed Apocalypse was just "40k, but these super heavies frick your normal troops to death."
It was fun, in a fashion, but without alternating activations, the bigger a 40k game gets, the easier it is to just alpha strike your opponent and beat them in the first round.
Whenever I visit the game store these days I always laugh at the pile of Space Marines hiding behind a tall building so that they don't get killed to the man by the opening salvo.
has someone made an alternative actions gamemode for 40k apocalypse?
So the /40pkg/ OP's TQ is talking about 4th Edition being a fan supported OP, and another thread
has anons talking about a 4th edition legacy fan supported edition too.
I guess 10th edition is so bad that people are now going "screw it we'll make our own 40k edition that is closer to 40k than OPR."
>I guess 10th edition is so bad that people are now going "screw it we'll make our own 40k edition that is closer to 40k than OPR."
About time
10th is indeed so bad people are even going back to 9th. It's amazing.
3rd was the edition I started with. Played all the way from release until 4th came out. I saw how little GW respected their fans even then.
>"The plastic models will decrease the cost of all the specialty armies and make the game generally more affordable anon!"
Yeah, how did that shit work out?
I dropped 40k and never looked back. The intervening shit show between then and now has been pure hilarity for me.
And for some time that was actually true, metal armies were very expensive back then, and big plastic boxes had good prices. But then everyone knows what happened.
I just played a game of warhammer 40,000! So I moved my space marine squad 6 inches and then I needed to roll 3+ to hit and 4+ to wound... My opponent made saves on 3+ and every fail was a wound! Cool!
Which edition did we play?
One of the good editions
>plays marines vs marines
Anon don't do this. In fact help a marinegay and burn his models.
Agree
3rd was a mistake and beginning of the end. 2nd ed was flawed but could have been fixed but they threw the baby out with the bath water. Apparently Chambers wanted a more streamlined game but his rule set was too different and they backed it down into this compromise which had to re-add the depth removed with special rules up the wazoo because they were allergic to modifiers because it would be too hard for a dumbed down edition for children.
Is there a rule set that preserves all the flavor of 40k's factions but uses alternating activations?
40k Apocalypse