Your character is having a conversation about ethics with Niccolo Machiavelli, how does it go?
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Your character is having a conversation about ethics with Niccolo Machiavelli, how does it go?
Given that the advice in "the prince" is entirely sarcastic critique describing the failing system he directly observed, i think we'd get along okay
Was it really satire?
No, midwits like calling it satire because they think it makes them seem smart. Also OP is a no games homosexual.
Why do people constantly say oh op plays no games. Is this some concentrated fed effort to make this board insufferable.
Most of "The Prince" is a case study of Cesare Borgia (Duke Valentino for those who read it but don't know history) so it's not even a question of what Niccolo Machiavelli would do, it is an analysis of what Cesare Borgia did and the extent to which it actually worked and why.
You should read it not because it will make you a Machiavellian genius, but because Cesare Borgia is an absolute mad lad and the book is extremely entertaining. Then follow up with "My Life" by Benvenudo Cellini for the full Cinquecento experience.
What Niccolo Machiavelli actually wanted is more a question for his other works.
You seem to be informed about machiavelli. Did machiavelli not write about ethics in the discourses of livy?
It was published 5 years after he died, but written within 5 years of being accused of conspiracy and tortured by the medichis. Would a torture victim be an amoral authoritarian? Would an amoral authoritarian not publish their great work on amoral authoritarianism? You decide
You also could read it and see what his arguments are.
Reading books is a bannable offence on nu/tg/
no, it was a job application, he wanted to impress the reader into hiring him
IIRC he wanted to help a friend.
>le satire midwits
Political realism was never about rejecting morality, merely the understanding that mixing morality and international affairs can only lead to the degradation of both (something Richelieu agreed with). Think of how midwits insist on framing certain conflicts in terms of good and evil and how it only forms an obstacle to timely conflict resolution (because why negotiate with the forces of evil?).
Also, the points made in The Prince simply make too much sense for satire. Does satire involve bringing up historical examples that prove the point you're making?
Satire is when a dumbass says something portrayed as good or correct is actually bad or wrong. The more good or correct it is, the more satirer it is.
Terribly. My character is supposed to bring real arguments in a manner that convinces onlookers and himself, but not Machiavelli… however, I suck at playing AND rhetorics so everything that comes out will basically be out of character.
>Get exiled by the aristocrats
>Write a satirical book about how the aristocrats are sociopaths
>They start using it as a training manual
Frick
It's one of the three biggest misunderstandings between author and audience in the whole damn history of literature. Together with 1984 and Modest Proposal.
I remind him that Italians are bad at warfare and he shits himself with coping that they’re good at diplomacy despite duped into collectively agreeing to Soanish hegemony over Italy.
Entirely fine. I point out that Machiavelli was actually a fairly nebbish civil servant. He was so low on the rung that after a government inquiry, it turned out that government actually owed him some money in back pay.
Everyone remembers his book, but he wasn't really in a position to live out what he wrote. It's the same way that De Sade never actually did all that stuff to women, he just wrote about it.
>It's the same way that De Sade never actually did all that stuff to women, he just wrote about it.
Part of his writing is documentary in intend. As in he tried to document all the ways people could get off. That kind of became his long-term project he pursued in prison, even when he was denied access to writing materials.
Other parts are parodistic, as in he wrote a porn parody of Candide and wrote another porn parody in which a buncha deviants swing seamlessly between being sex criminals and quoting enlightenment philosophy to argue that a sex crime is a good thing, actually.
>It's the same way that De Sade never actually did all that stuff to women, he just wrote about it.
He tried. There was a reason he was being kept in the Bastille, and there's a reason why the Revolutionaries put him straight back in prison once they spent time around him (ironic considering his imprisonment was a cause celebre that motivated the storming of the bastille in the first place (he had already been transferred elsewhere along with most of the prisoners)
We frame our discussion with the ideas of Sun Tzu & Frantz Fanon, get pissed together at the pub, & then go agitate the eschaton.
> The canals in Camden are filled with bottles tonight.
I, a proud condotiero, tackle him to the ground and start beating him up for slandering my vocation.
You know that proverb about how you can't beat a pigeon in chess? I'm the pigeon.
>Actually no, loyalists won’t turn on you the moment situation starts to look grim. The thing is, being loved is not really an option in most situations while being feared is usually fast, easy and gets the job done well enough.
Renegade Orlanthi initiate of Zorak Zoran.