Pretty much. TTYD does get glorified a bit too much at times, but at least the gameplay is pretty fun and interesting beyond the backtracking. I just don't find Super's gameplay to be all that engaging, and it's certainly not do to the shift in direction
Super Paper Mario is underrated nowadays. Most people cannot look past that it's no longer turn-based but more so action adventure with some RPG elements.
I love how the story is a huge improvement over TTYD and the villain actually has a proper motive and character, which the Shadow Queen feels poorly done.
>the story is a huge improvement over TTYD
Lmao.
TTYD is shonen kino. You're going on a huge adventure with your friends to stop this evil organization from opening that big ass door. You find out that the underground city was where they defeated some horrible monster and that they're trying to wake it up. You get acquainted with so many cool characters, including mafia pianta bosses, wrestlers and shit.
SPM is shonen kino on the cringier side. The love story is generic and boring. It's not the same to try to hype your inner kid with these shonen-y plotlines than to try to go all emotional on you with a barebones love story. You still get some really cool parts like the heaven/hell substory, but it just doesn't work the same.
Also, SPM has much, much less worldbuilding than TTYD. That's what's missing. Not RPG fighting. 3D worlds full of life, not pixel shit.
It really doesn't help that the main premise of the game was dimension hopping, so the worlds were completely disconnected from each other. It truly felt like you're just visiting individual levels, unlike TTYD.
>Most people cannot look past that it's no longer turn-based but more so action adventure with some RPG elements.
BS. The problem is that the gameplay just isn't that interesting. They kind of had something going with the Pixls, but in practice they're not really that interesting nor necessary much of the time. That's not to even mention how poorly they differentiated the four main characters in combat. As a platformer, the game also isn't that amazing. There's hardly any interesting challenges with it, and on the converse it doesn't feel good since the physics were just taken from TTYD. In fact, the game as a whole feels way too floaty, and certainly doesn't let you do enough in the air to justify that. I guess I can shake the Wii remote after EVERY jump for extra experience and a second and a half long cheer from a random audience. That's not even to mention the level design. I'll admit that it's one of the areas in TTYD that could have been better, but SPM is worse and sticks out more due to its shift in genre.
>Only graphic wise
Music too
It's got my favorite soundtrack ever. I love the mix of classical sounding music and rock, gives the game a really unique feel.
lmao this game has never been overrated.
[...]
Only graphic wise
While Origami King has good graphics, the locations are soulless so it doesn't matter. And the white outline/paper shit all over the place just doesn't work. It's done EXTREMELY COMPETENTLY, of course, but it's just shit as an idea
I'll give you that. Not all locations were soulless, but I wouldn't call them great either. They had some good artists on their team, but a lack of direction means they can only make superficial stuff
This is the game that's overrated.
It's a little bit better than color splash. Okay, it's still shit.
But people pretend like that slight improvement suddenly made it the best game ever. It's still dogshit and boring.
>The overworld exploration is the most tedious part of any Paper Mario. >Let's make the whole series revolve around overworld exploration, and also get rid of all the partners and unlockable abilities that make interacting with it interesting.
It boggles the mind.
>jokes >visual
I feel like all the nu-Paper Mario games and especially Origami King are the perfect npc test. If you enjoy the humor you probably like every Marvel movie ever made >hit tree with hammer >coins fall out >Toad 1: wow why were there coins in that tree? >Toad 2: is the a coin tree or are those apples just shiny? >Toad 3: darn I put all my money in that tree >Toad 4: why would you hammer that tree? That's a weird thing to do >Toad 5: Ouch! That's what I'd say if I was a tree and you hit me
Repeat for every single screen of the entire game and every single mundane thing you could find
>with emulation making it better
Emulating TTYD sucks ass. I get so many bugs with it, mostly visual but sometimes the game even crashes. Really hope they re-release it eventually.
"They were so boring I played all of them to talk about how boring they are"
Seek help, moron-kun. It's a good series that, like most other long running series, got worse and worse over time.TTYD was peak, the Wii one was interesting, anything after that is garbage and lost what made the series in the first place.
/v/irgins don’t play games, so something genuine or something only people that have played said game would know basically doom the thread to die before it reaches 10 whole posts.
Anger fuels the populous in the age of no emotional control.
I replayed TTYD and finished it yesterday. It was my favorite game as a kid and I have to say, the backtracking does piss me off. Some people say "it's not as bad upon replaying", but I think it's way worse and noticeable now that I'm not a kid with all the time in the world anymore. >Chapter 1: Go to Shwonk fortress to get the sun and moon stones, then go all the way back to Hooktail's castle
Not the bad type of backtracking and pretty excusable since most people would simply skip the enemies on their way back and it takes about two minutes to backtrack from the very end to the very start. >Chapter 2: Go all the way to the end, go all the way back to the beginning to get the necklace, then go back to the end to get Flurrie, then go slightly back to the tree
This one's more annoying, but still alright since you can easily dodge the enemies on the way back again. >Chapter 3
Not sure if anything in this chapter counts as backtracking since it's more of a central hub with stuff around it. The monotonous fights are more annoying than when the concept was new to me, though. >Chapter 4: Go all the way to the end, go all the way back to the start to get Vivian, go all the way back to the end again to get the name, go all the way back to the start again to say the name, go all the way back to the end again to fight Doo liss
It's probably what everyone thinks of first when they hear "backtracking", and for good reason. It's an insane amount of just going back and forth and it's pretty hard to avoid encounters. >Chapter 5: Go all the way to the end to find Bobbery, go back to the start to Flavio, (go back to the end for a coconut, go back to the start to give it to him), go back to the end to save Bobbery, go back to the start to get Flavio, go back to the end to enter the Grotto
Worse than Ch. 4 on the first playthrough when you don't know that you need a coconut yet. Also, why didn't Flavio just come with you as soon as he gives you the Chuckola Cola?
>Chapter 6
Reminds me of Chapter 3 a bit with how it's sort of a "central hub", but since it's more of a straight line, the backtracking is more annoying. Especially going from the very back to the very front to get an autograph and to go all the way back again. And the end when you have to discover the Smorg at the very front and exit the train in the back. Still not too bad since there are no encounters. >Chapter 7: Go to basically every place you've been at to find General White
Not as bad as people remember as you can just warp to most places he was at, except Glitzville. Still annoying and shitty padding, but I think it's meant to make you re-visit every area one last time. >Chapter 8
No backtracking here. Except the straight and empty hallway from Gloomtail to the puzzle tower.
What's more annoying are the sidequests that just involve going somewhere, getting the quest, going somewhere else, talking to a guy, going back, getting the reward. They put zero effort or creativity into making these sidequests and honestly, none of them are worth doing. Not even the Ms. Mowz one because I didn't really use her. Of the ones I did, the hot dog sidequest was the worst. You go to Petalburg where a guy asks for a hotdog (which he couldn't just do in the trouble center description itself for some reason), you go all the way to Glitzville, all the way back, give it to him, and then he wants a second hotdog. Is this supposed to be satire or something?
Writen this before seeing your other chapter but it still stands >Chapter 6:Run up and down the train talking to NPC's, Stop at a train station to run down and up the stairs then continue
Not as bad but the fact most of the gameplay of chapter 6 is just talking to NPC's is backtracking, even if the NPC'S are funny >Chapter fricking 7
Pffffffffft I shouldn't have to mention that white bobomb the little prick, this joke only works if you HADN'T made everyone walk back and forth though the fricking game. Moon is good. >Chapter 8
Actually the one chapter where the backtracking is gone since it's a long gauntlet until you need to fricking restock before the final boss which you probably will at least once due to fighting several bosses and dozens of enemies in which it's ALL the back out and to where you left off again.
I'm willing to admit thats more situational but 64 had shops within the final dungeon and a quick way out once you reached bowser. No fricking excuse.
I think you hit alot of the points on the head but i'm tired of people pretending it's a 10/10. People have created a cult out of it to the point they aren't willing to look at the flaws
>Chapter 6
Reminds me of Chapter 3 a bit with how it's sort of a "central hub", but since it's more of a straight line, the backtracking is more annoying. Especially going from the very back to the very front to get an autograph and to go all the way back again. And the end when you have to discover the Smorg at the very front and exit the train in the back. Still not too bad since there are no encounters. >Chapter 7: Go to basically every place you've been at to find General White
Not as bad as people remember as you can just warp to most places he was at, except Glitzville. Still annoying and shitty padding, but I think it's meant to make you re-visit every area one last time. >Chapter 8
No backtracking here. Except the straight and empty hallway from Gloomtail to the puzzle tower.
What's more annoying are the sidequests that just involve going somewhere, getting the quest, going somewhere else, talking to a guy, going back, getting the reward. They put zero effort or creativity into making these sidequests and honestly, none of them are worth doing. Not even the Ms. Mowz one because I didn't really use her. Of the ones I did, the hot dog sidequest was the worst. You go to Petalburg where a guy asks for a hotdog (which he couldn't just do in the trouble center description itself for some reason), you go all the way to Glitzville, all the way back, give it to him, and then he wants a second hotdog. Is this supposed to be satire or something?
Backtracking isn't much of an issue. chapter 4 has one too many trips to the church, but it's still fine. You get experience and all.
The issue with TTYD is limited/small scale level design. Still a fantastic game, but that's where 64 wins.
it also shows a staggering lack of perspective on the genre
these kinds of people would lose their fricking minds playing something like megaman battle network
You can thank Tanabe for attarcting these kinds of people to the series despite Color Splash and Sticker Star on a blind playthrough having backtracking too
These are the kind of people who hate Banjo-Tooie for not letting them collect everything in one go in each stage. How dare the game expect you to get new abilities to solve old problems?
God help us if they discover the Metroidvania genre.
You know, if you have a problem with my criticism, you can just talk to me directly and try to disprove anything instead of making up some weird shit like "they're the kind of people who X". I like Metroidvanias and I like Banjo Tooie, but I still find TTYD's backtracking moronic and uncreative. At least in Metroidvanias and Banjo Tooie you can fast travel and also decide when you want to backtrack. For example, I cool the water in Hailfire Peaks and go back to Jolly Roger's Lagoon to get my Jiggy, and decide to also do the Tiptup Jiggy while I'm there because I knew I got the hatching move for that an hour ago.
But TTYD just says "you just walked in a straight line, now walk the same straight line back. now do it again".
It's different. Also don't talk about how "people nowadays don't have patience" if you don't wanna read my post. At least I'm not asking you to re-read my post backwards.
The world doesn't revolve around (you), little snowflake.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Makes no sense. I'm not asking Nintendo to make a game for me, I'm just stating what I and a million other people dislike about this otherwise great game. If you have a problem with my criticism, then, by your logic, I guess you're a special snowflake who wants every Ganker post tailor made for them.
>dont care about how mad you are about having to revisit locations in a jrpg
Normal JRPGs have fast travel for this very reason and have never bugged me.
it also shows a staggering lack of perspective on the genre
these kinds of people would lose their fricking minds playing something like megaman battle network
>It's not bad because there's a whole genre of bad games!!!!
I actually really liked sticker star. The combat system lets you do whatever you'd like. TOK is still the best game in the series next to 64, but I wishes they didn't totally drop status effects. The boss fights in SS are awesome if you don't spam damage thing stickers
All this talk of story between TTYD and SPM has got me thinking. Any story/lore elements you guys would like to see in your hypothetical dream Paper Mario Game?
Instead of one single bad guy and his/her minions, how about having multiple villains each working independently from each other in the hopes of becoming top dog? I know in practice that may not be all that different from the first three games but I always thought it would be cool to have each chapter take place in a kingdom that has their own Bowser equivalent. This idea has kind of been played with mildly in the past such as Wart being the ruler of Subcon while for the Beanbean Kingdom, Cackletta was to Bowser as Prince Peasly was to Mario. It would also be interesting to see how Bowser and his forces would interact with multiple opposing forces.
>Any story/lore elements you guys would like to see in your hypothetical dream Paper Mario Game?
It's not really "story" but I'd like the harem elements from TTYD to come back. Paper Mario is basically just anime with a Mario theme to it, so that kind of stuff felt very at home. I used to think there was no chance they'll ever bring that back, BUT with Xenoblade having Rex canonically impregnate 3 women at the same time, maybe Paper Mario can have some light flirting.
Take the 'Bowser Chapters' in TTYD, except expand them into actual Chapters. Have the Chapters being set parallel to the Mario Chapters,
Hell, let a Chapter near the end be one where you play through the same story as both Mario and Bowser, just one after another, so you can see the area in a different view
Yeah sure, the Final Chapter is probably going to end with Mario kicking Bowser's Ass, but it'd be fricking great knowing what he went through completely to get to that point
>64
8/10
Largely an inferior version of TTYD, though it had a few advantages like less backtracking >TTYD
9/10
Amazing, but a bit inconsistent. The train and wrestling chapters were 10/10 but then you had the boring Boggly Woods and Twilight town chapters dragging the game down a bit with tedious backtracking. >SPM
7/10
Interesting story and characters, although a bit outlandish, but the gameplay is horrible. It would be lower if this were not a story based game. >SS
0/10
Complete trash with no value whatsoever. >CS
6/10
Not as bad as SS, not as good as the others. A mediocre game but not bad. >Origami King
8/10
Incredible music and visuals with likeable characters and fun environments to explore. The battle system is terrible and drags down a game that would otherwise be the best in the series.
I share your opinion but i'd bump up 64 for being a much more consistent experience than TTYD. Unlike the latter, there's virtually zero low points and every chapter is still fun on a replay.
To me the atmosphere of TTYD puts it above 64 even if it falls behind with consistency. 64's world is very generic Mario whereas TTYD does some more outlandish things. The gameplay in 64 is also a bit too easy to break by using the metal hat item. This was a major oversight by the developers.
I actually like 64's atmosphere better. The pop-up kid's picture book aesthetic meshes together perfectly with the charming somewhat simplistic story while TTYD has this weird almost edgy grit to it that doesn't really blend with the artstyle that much.
>weird almost edgy grit to it that doesn't really blend with the artstyle that much.
It does though.
64 is like you said a kid's picture book.
TTYD is a comic book.
I'm fricking tired of people pretending that color splash was significantly better than sticker star, it's the same exact shit. It literally doubled down on everything sticker star did; trash combat system, shitty paper puns, Things, toad galore, trash story, etc. It only made those elements slightly less bad, yet people are pretending it's some massive improvement
if sticker star is 0/10 (which it is) then color splash is maximum 4/10 if you're feeling generous
I may be somewhat biased in this comparison because I hate the 3DS in general. Piece of shit hardware with a tiny screen and bad controls. I had one but there's no game I'd consider good on it.
It's debatably worse in some ways due to you >Actually being 100% forced to use Things against bosses, even if you hack the game you cannot kill them until you use the needed Thing card >The menuing for combat is worse and slower alongside animations >It has plenty of segments of you getting a Game Over spontaneously from a random event like the Chain Chomp chasing you >You can get 9999 coins to have 0 issue before Lemmy >Worst of all there is 0 way to tell how much damage you're dealing to an enemy since it's all based on their body being painted which is a cute visual in a way but taking out any and all numbers just makes it so much harder to be actually strategic while being resourceful
Also this is more subjective but I'll always hate how they gave everything a shitty outline alongside everything having choppy animation.
Fixed >64
9/10
A consistent experience and neatly balanced game with better bosses and music than its brother. Level design is pretty good in this one. Its much better than TTYD because it doesn't try to bloat it battle system >TTYD
7/10
Retains the battle elements from its brother, but ruins it by adding extra crap like giving mario 7 hp bars, enemies that barely reach HP count of the pervious game, garbage rng from the stage and audience. The overworld exploration and level design is complete garbage, left to right trash (backtracking included) >SPM
0/10
Attempts to take the edgy trash like shadow peach and run with it, but this time the whole game is about count cuck who is sad! The gameplay loves to waste your time, like running on a wheel for 15 minutes, having to write down a long passcode, etc. The combat is Mario bros 1 if it was bad. The fact anyone likes this game tells me they'll put up with served shit if it has sprinkles on it (OCs and Story)
SS
8/10
A very bland game on the surface, but its pretty interesting with how you can complete the entire game out of order. Since there is no story, the level design gets a boost in quality and the combat system is fine. Bosses are pretty tough too.
CS
6/10
Its SS 2, but worse, its slower in all areas. They ruined the boss fights by forcing you to use weakness cards on them, taking an incentive to experiment or have a fun fight and tossing in the trash. The areas are more interesting, but the pacing is awful with the first boss fight being 3 hours in and fighting nothing but shy guys
TOK
9/10
focusing on not being a weird version of the PM battle system and running with a true puzzle system works in this title as seen by the boss fights, truly spectacular fights, however the normal fights are serviceable at best. Overworld enemies are a great addition to the series and the multiple ways of traversal shake things up. Game strives in variety.
>64
9/10
Systemically it's worse than TTYD, but a lot of gameplay design elements are better. The overworld is a big one, even if it's less inspired on a story/style level. >TTYD
9/10
Better systems, worse world design, significantly more interesting writing. Very inconsistent. >SPM
6/10
A downgrade in a lot of respects. Still playable, still interesting in writing terms, but suffers. >SS
2/10
Nothing going for it other than it wasting a few hours of your life without breaking horribly. >CS
4/10
A slightly improved version of SS. Literally nothing else. >OK
6/10
A slightly improved version of CS that pays some lipservice to the older games.
Throwing "but you have to play a puzzle to line up the enemies" into common battles and making boss fights into another type of gimmick is a slight improvement.
Given that the last two games have both gotten progressively better, do you think the next PM game will cross the line into being great again? Seems like all they mostly need to do is get rid of ring battles and add more badges.
The ironic thing is that Tanabe said he created the ring battle system for the hardcore audience. So he actually made the gimmick for us not for casuals.
It's definitely more difficult than just choosing attacks in a menu, but more difficult isn't automatically a good thing. If you had to file your taxes every time you started a battle, that would be harder but I wouldn't enjoy it.
>It's definitely more difficult than just choosing attacks in a menu
that mentality is why we keep getting shit like this
2 years ago
Anonymous
I think the reason we keep getting stuff like this is because Nintendo doesn't believe JRPGs can sell well, but that doesn't mean making it half JRPG half I don't even know what is going to make it sell more. They need to either commit to the core RPG audience or try out a different genre entirely like action.
It's not. But it does have a lot of areas of opportunity that the sequels could've improved upon had Nintendo not dropped the formula with Sticker Star.
Improvements that the sequels could've had: >an actual post-game >meaningful sidequests >partners being more involved in the story beyond their introduction chapter >meaningful Po100T >completionist rewards
>an actual post-game
Well it's already really long. Like REALLY long. And there's the pit. I think it's a good reward. >meaningful sidequests
True. >partners being more involved in the story beyond their introduction chapter
I'd say they could solve it by having defined partners talk instead of the one you've got currently on. So maybe they could even interact.
He goes about saying that TOK is a decent/good game only brought down by the battle system.
This is wrong. TOK is bad on so many levels that calling it a decent game or worse, a good one, means you're either an actual kid or an easily impressed moron. It's full of glaring, obvious issues that have nothing to do with the battles.
>How are the villains looking for the second Crystal Star without the map??
I thought they explicitly stated that the X-nauts knew the locations of three of the stars: The one in Hooktail's Castle, Boggly Woods, and the one they had. They just found those through...intel or something. I mean, they've been looking for the Crystal Stars for way longer. Also, they had Beldam on their side, who was probably present when the Crystal Stars were created.
I prefer TTYD since as much as PM64 is my favorite game I feel like stunning your party member just makes the pace of fights a bit of a slog, especially with fights like the Lantern Ghost and final Bowser.
TTYD's partner system needs a rebalance to prevent you from having 6 meat shields available at all times. Maybe have a lot more attacks that focus Mario. Or maybe Mario gets handicapped when a partner dies.
>returning to Fleep with toilet paper >getting the Cragnon password >finding all three parts for the elemental pillars >going to the bottom of the Underwhere staircase for a key item >Chapter 7-3 in general
There's five really good examples of backtracking in the game.
I'll post this again
Anything after SPM is irredeemable shit and an embarrassment to the series as a whole
64 >= TTYD >>> SPM >>>>>>>>>>>>> TOK >>>>> CS >>> SS
It really isn't.
Like, we've been chasing the polygon meme for the past 20 years, because that's what the gameshow watchers want. They put so much effort into making things realistic, and then they fail to do anything fantastic with that realism aside from MAYBE a giant monster. OH MY GAWRD ITS GODZIRRA.
This is just paper, a story book coming to life and doing paper things. How isn't that cool? Things can be so crazy and wild, but crazy and wild means risky business venture.
Know what's more unnerving than your homosexual fricking Indiana Jones villains? Blood-crying baby with a wicker puppet that's trying to tear you into pieces.
>64
10/10. Great pacing, great look, great level design, great gameplay. The whole game is the good part of the game. >TTYD
9/10. Upgraded combat compared to 64. Backtracking/bloat/worse level design knocks it down a point. Some chapters and segments are not great. Still great to play though >Super Paper Mario
5/10. Completely different. If you like it, good for you. Some okay ideas/execution >Every Paper Mario game after SPM
0/10 unless you are an actual baby. >erm but erm technically Origami King erm acktually improved on a concept that erm Sticker Star originall-
Nobody cares. You are comparing 3 month old dogshit to 10 month old dogshit. You have bad tastes
Mostly agree but let's end the whole 64>TTYD meme. Better level design and harder enemies doesn't make up for much less interesting substories/writing/setting/world.
Not him
They're about equal but it comes down to one's own preference in the end.
There isn't much of a reason to debate these two when there are CS and TOK trannies gaslighting 64 and TTYD enthusiasts into thinking their games weren't good in the first place
For me it's just subjective. If you are more of a story person or really like the setting and characters in TTYD. I totally get it. I really love some of the areas and characters in TTYD. If I was rating both games on their first playthrough I'd just give both a 10. I just really do think replaying TTYD you notice some of the weaker chapters or sections that aren't very fun to do again. If TTYD had a fricking spindash I'd give it a 10
Agreed that's it's subjective. I personally think SOUL and writing is what sets TTYD apart, otherwise you might as well be playing Bug Fables (aka the real new Paper Mario).
For me it's just subjective. If you are more of a story person or really like the setting and characters in TTYD. I totally get it. I really love some of the areas and characters in TTYD. If I was rating both games on their first playthrough I'd just give both a 10. I just really do think replaying TTYD you notice some of the weaker chapters or sections that aren't very fun to do again. If TTYD had a fricking spindash I'd give it a 10
It really isn't.
always had been. Paper Mario was never good.
spbp
Different strokes for different folks. I hate turn-based combat.
You've got to be one jaded edgy frick to not enjoy this game in some capacity. It's charming as hell.
This. I'm not a big RPG fan but I love this game.
This is more overrated
You're wrong but that's ok, you can have that opinion.
Agreed
This is just trolling.
I liked the arcade in this one. Do the games after this still have arcades?
No, they don't. SPM is still the peak of the series.
Pretty much. TTYD does get glorified a bit too much at times, but at least the gameplay is pretty fun and interesting beyond the backtracking. I just don't find Super's gameplay to be all that engaging, and it's certainly not do to the shift in direction
Super Paper Mario is underrated nowadays. Most people cannot look past that it's no longer turn-based but more so action adventure with some RPG elements.
I love how the story is a huge improvement over TTYD and the villain actually has a proper motive and character, which the Shadow Queen feels poorly done.
>the story is a huge improvement over TTYD
Lmao.
TTYD is shonen kino. You're going on a huge adventure with your friends to stop this evil organization from opening that big ass door. You find out that the underground city was where they defeated some horrible monster and that they're trying to wake it up. You get acquainted with so many cool characters, including mafia pianta bosses, wrestlers and shit.
SPM is shonen kino on the cringier side. The love story is generic and boring. It's not the same to try to hype your inner kid with these shonen-y plotlines than to try to go all emotional on you with a barebones love story. You still get some really cool parts like the heaven/hell substory, but it just doesn't work the same.
Also, SPM has much, much less worldbuilding than TTYD. That's what's missing. Not RPG fighting. 3D worlds full of life, not pixel shit.
It really doesn't help that the main premise of the game was dimension hopping, so the worlds were completely disconnected from each other. It truly felt like you're just visiting individual levels, unlike TTYD.
>Most people cannot look past that it's no longer turn-based but more so action adventure with some RPG elements.
BS. The problem is that the gameplay just isn't that interesting. They kind of had something going with the Pixls, but in practice they're not really that interesting nor necessary much of the time. That's not to even mention how poorly they differentiated the four main characters in combat. As a platformer, the game also isn't that amazing. There's hardly any interesting challenges with it, and on the converse it doesn't feel good since the physics were just taken from TTYD. In fact, the game as a whole feels way too floaty, and certainly doesn't let you do enough in the air to justify that. I guess I can shake the Wii remote after EVERY jump for extra experience and a second and a half long cheer from a random audience. That's not even to mention the level design. I'll admit that it's one of the areas in TTYD that could have been better, but SPM is worse and sticks out more due to its shift in genre.
lmao this game has never been overrated.
Only graphic wise
>Only graphic wise
Music too
It's got my favorite soundtrack ever. I love the mix of classical sounding music and rock, gives the game a really unique feel.
True the music is fantastic. PM has always had good music, it never failed on that at least.
While Origami King has good graphics, the locations are soulless so it doesn't matter. And the white outline/paper shit all over the place just doesn't work. It's done EXTREMELY COMPETENTLY, of course, but it's just shit as an idea
The whole Japanese chapter was great, and I liked the sniffit town as well, although the desert was boring.
I'll give you that. Not all locations were soulless, but I wouldn't call them great either. They had some good artists on their team, but a lack of direction means they can only make superficial stuff
Best game in the series.
What an epic Ganker contrarian thread, really suvberted my expectations
This is the game that's overrated.
It's a little bit better than color splash. Okay, it's still shit.
But people pretend like that slight improvement suddenly made it the best game ever. It's still dogshit and boring.
Without the Mario name people would ruthlessly criticize it. The gameplay is not fun
What gameplay? Running around, hammering shit and listening to unfunny self aware one note jokes?
Welcome to how almost every Mario game works. Lol
>The overworld exploration is the most tedious part of any Paper Mario.
>Let's make the whole series revolve around overworld exploration, and also get rid of all the partners and unlockable abilities that make interacting with it interesting.
It boggles the mind.
The bulk of the game has the same "gameplay" as Where's Waldo/Wally. Prove me wrong
This piece of shit isn't a good game, let alone a good paper mario
it's the best of the nu-Paper Mario games
That's... not saying much.
Also this.
ttyd is my fave game in the series, I didn't get past the first couple of chapters in this out of sheer boredom
I really enjoyed the humor but man oh man that combat gets really old really quickly
>I really enjoyed the humor
How the frick do you enjoy shitty self aware jokes/HAHA PAPER?
The paper jokes were toned down a lot from Color Splash. A lot of it's visual rather than being told to your face.
The self aware shit wasn't. There's nothing genuine in this piece of shit game. It's all irony.
>jokes
>visual
I feel like all the nu-Paper Mario games and especially Origami King are the perfect npc test. If you enjoy the humor you probably like every Marvel movie ever made
>hit tree with hammer
>coins fall out
>Toad 1: wow why were there coins in that tree?
>Toad 2: is the a coin tree or are those apples just shiny?
>Toad 3: darn I put all my money in that tree
>Toad 4: why would you hammer that tree? That's a weird thing to do
>Toad 5: Ouch! That's what I'd say if I was a tree and you hit me
Repeat for every single screen of the entire game and every single mundane thing you could find
Stuff I found funny wasn't even paper related.
I'm glad that the only people left pretending this shit was remotely good are Ganker shitposters
Who even owns a copy, to know if it’s even good, with emulation making it better
>I wish games were always low quality so that we wouldn't expect anything good
Gen alpha confirmed to be worse than even zoomers
>with emulation making it better
Emulating TTYD sucks ass. I get so many bugs with it, mostly visual but sometimes the game even crashes. Really hope they re-release it eventually.
It is overrated mainly due to the constant backtracking.
However its still worth it, i just wish all you fricks didn't jerk this game off as 10/10
It is 10/10, stop getting mad at good games being popular. You're not special or cool.
I’ve played every one of these, and they were all boring as frick. Pretty, but boring.
"They were so boring I played all of them to talk about how boring they are"
Seek help, moron-kun. It's a good series that, like most other long running series, got worse and worse over time.TTYD was peak, the Wii one was interesting, anything after that is garbage and lost what made the series in the first place.
why do so many threads have to start like this, why this game in particular too
/v/irgins don’t play games, so something genuine or something only people that have played said game would know basically doom the thread to die before it reaches 10 whole posts.
Anger fuels the populous in the age of no emotional control.
>Anger fuels the populous in the age of no emotional control.
Nu-tendo fans are salty b***hes.
>Yup, I never played it
I just want to emulate it
Yup, I'm thinking OP is a homosexual
I replayed TTYD and finished it yesterday. It was my favorite game as a kid and I have to say, the backtracking does piss me off. Some people say "it's not as bad upon replaying", but I think it's way worse and noticeable now that I'm not a kid with all the time in the world anymore.
>Chapter 1: Go to Shwonk fortress to get the sun and moon stones, then go all the way back to Hooktail's castle
Not the bad type of backtracking and pretty excusable since most people would simply skip the enemies on their way back and it takes about two minutes to backtrack from the very end to the very start.
>Chapter 2: Go all the way to the end, go all the way back to the beginning to get the necklace, then go back to the end to get Flurrie, then go slightly back to the tree
This one's more annoying, but still alright since you can easily dodge the enemies on the way back again.
>Chapter 3
Not sure if anything in this chapter counts as backtracking since it's more of a central hub with stuff around it. The monotonous fights are more annoying than when the concept was new to me, though.
>Chapter 4: Go all the way to the end, go all the way back to the start to get Vivian, go all the way back to the end again to get the name, go all the way back to the start again to say the name, go all the way back to the end again to fight Doo liss
It's probably what everyone thinks of first when they hear "backtracking", and for good reason. It's an insane amount of just going back and forth and it's pretty hard to avoid encounters.
>Chapter 5: Go all the way to the end to find Bobbery, go back to the start to Flavio, (go back to the end for a coconut, go back to the start to give it to him), go back to the end to save Bobbery, go back to the start to get Flavio, go back to the end to enter the Grotto
Worse than Ch. 4 on the first playthrough when you don't know that you need a coconut yet. Also, why didn't Flavio just come with you as soon as he gives you the Chuckola Cola?
>Chapter 6
Reminds me of Chapter 3 a bit with how it's sort of a "central hub", but since it's more of a straight line, the backtracking is more annoying. Especially going from the very back to the very front to get an autograph and to go all the way back again. And the end when you have to discover the Smorg at the very front and exit the train in the back. Still not too bad since there are no encounters.
>Chapter 7: Go to basically every place you've been at to find General White
Not as bad as people remember as you can just warp to most places he was at, except Glitzville. Still annoying and shitty padding, but I think it's meant to make you re-visit every area one last time.
>Chapter 8
No backtracking here. Except the straight and empty hallway from Gloomtail to the puzzle tower.
What's more annoying are the sidequests that just involve going somewhere, getting the quest, going somewhere else, talking to a guy, going back, getting the reward. They put zero effort or creativity into making these sidequests and honestly, none of them are worth doing. Not even the Ms. Mowz one because I didn't really use her. Of the ones I did, the hot dog sidequest was the worst. You go to Petalburg where a guy asks for a hotdog (which he couldn't just do in the trouble center description itself for some reason), you go all the way to Glitzville, all the way back, give it to him, and then he wants a second hotdog. Is this supposed to be satire or something?
Writen this before seeing your other chapter but it still stands
>Chapter 6:Run up and down the train talking to NPC's, Stop at a train station to run down and up the stairs then continue
Not as bad but the fact most of the gameplay of chapter 6 is just talking to NPC's is backtracking, even if the NPC'S are funny
>Chapter fricking 7
Pffffffffft I shouldn't have to mention that white bobomb the little prick, this joke only works if you HADN'T made everyone walk back and forth though the fricking game. Moon is good.
>Chapter 8
Actually the one chapter where the backtracking is gone since it's a long gauntlet until you need to fricking restock before the final boss which you probably will at least once due to fighting several bosses and dozens of enemies in which it's ALL the back out and to where you left off again.
I'm willing to admit thats more situational but 64 had shops within the final dungeon and a quick way out once you reached bowser. No fricking excuse.
I think you hit alot of the points on the head but i'm tired of people pretending it's a 10/10. People have created a cult out of it to the point they aren't willing to look at the flaws
Backtracking isn't much of an issue. chapter 4 has one too many trips to the church, but it's still fine. You get experience and all.
The issue with TTYD is limited/small scale level design. Still a fantastic game, but that's where 64 wins.
not reading that
dont care about how mad you are about having to revisit locations in a jrpg
This. Getting really tired of grown frickings adults having zero patience with videogames. Even when I was 7 I wasn't butthurt by things like this.
it also shows a staggering lack of perspective on the genre
these kinds of people would lose their fricking minds playing something like megaman battle network
You can thank Tanabe for attarcting these kinds of people to the series despite Color Splash and Sticker Star on a blind playthrough having backtracking too
These are the kind of people who hate Banjo-Tooie for not letting them collect everything in one go in each stage. How dare the game expect you to get new abilities to solve old problems?
God help us if they discover the Metroidvania genre.
You know, if you have a problem with my criticism, you can just talk to me directly and try to disprove anything instead of making up some weird shit like "they're the kind of people who X". I like Metroidvanias and I like Banjo Tooie, but I still find TTYD's backtracking moronic and uncreative. At least in Metroidvanias and Banjo Tooie you can fast travel and also decide when you want to backtrack. For example, I cool the water in Hailfire Peaks and go back to Jolly Roger's Lagoon to get my Jiggy, and decide to also do the Tiptup Jiggy while I'm there because I knew I got the hatching move for that an hour ago.
But TTYD just says "you just walked in a straight line, now walk the same straight line back. now do it again".
It's different. Also don't talk about how "people nowadays don't have patience" if you don't wanna read my post. At least I'm not asking you to re-read my post backwards.
The world doesn't revolve around (you), little snowflake.
Makes no sense. I'm not asking Nintendo to make a game for me, I'm just stating what I and a million other people dislike about this otherwise great game. If you have a problem with my criticism, then, by your logic, I guess you're a special snowflake who wants every Ganker post tailor made for them.
>dont care about how mad you are about having to revisit locations in a jrpg
Normal JRPGs have fast travel for this very reason and have never bugged me.
>It's not bad because there's a whole genre of bad games!!!!
youll keep playing them anyway
not reading your blog homosexual.
64 and TTYD are both kino
but I like 64 just a bit more mostly for aesthetic reasons
Let's kick up the autism a notch
TTYD is like Sonic Adventure 2 and SPM is like Sonic Heroes
Not wrong. Only problem is that 64 isn't all that much like TTYD.
Accurate. Even right down to SA1 being 64 and also the best one
Nah.
It is, but TTYD is amazing. It's so memorable and unique, I was completely mystified by it when I was younger. Rougeport's atmosphere is unparalleled.
Frick all of (you)
Sticker Star was better
Great music but that's it.
I actually really liked sticker star. The combat system lets you do whatever you'd like. TOK is still the best game in the series next to 64, but I wishes they didn't totally drop status effects. The boss fights in SS are awesome if you don't spam damage thing stickers
>I actually really liked sticker star.
Yeah I knew the rest of your post would be terrible after that.
All this talk of story between TTYD and SPM has got me thinking. Any story/lore elements you guys would like to see in your hypothetical dream Paper Mario Game?
Instead of one single bad guy and his/her minions, how about having multiple villains each working independently from each other in the hopes of becoming top dog? I know in practice that may not be all that different from the first three games but I always thought it would be cool to have each chapter take place in a kingdom that has their own Bowser equivalent. This idea has kind of been played with mildly in the past such as Wart being the ruler of Subcon while for the Beanbean Kingdom, Cackletta was to Bowser as Prince Peasly was to Mario. It would also be interesting to see how Bowser and his forces would interact with multiple opposing forces.
>Any story/lore elements you guys would like to see in your hypothetical dream Paper Mario Game?
It's not really "story" but I'd like the harem elements from TTYD to come back. Paper Mario is basically just anime with a Mario theme to it, so that kind of stuff felt very at home. I used to think there was no chance they'll ever bring that back, BUT with Xenoblade having Rex canonically impregnate 3 women at the same time, maybe Paper Mario can have some light flirting.
Take the 'Bowser Chapters' in TTYD, except expand them into actual Chapters. Have the Chapters being set parallel to the Mario Chapters,
Hell, let a Chapter near the end be one where you play through the same story as both Mario and Bowser, just one after another, so you can see the area in a different view
Yeah sure, the Final Chapter is probably going to end with Mario kicking Bowser's Ass, but it'd be fricking great knowing what he went through completely to get to that point
Why do I like TTYD more than Superstar Saga?
It’s one of top 5 Nintendo RPGs ever
I enjoyed TOK, but this is still fricking hilarious.
>64
8/10
Largely an inferior version of TTYD, though it had a few advantages like less backtracking
>TTYD
9/10
Amazing, but a bit inconsistent. The train and wrestling chapters were 10/10 but then you had the boring Boggly Woods and Twilight town chapters dragging the game down a bit with tedious backtracking.
>SPM
7/10
Interesting story and characters, although a bit outlandish, but the gameplay is horrible. It would be lower if this were not a story based game.
>SS
0/10
Complete trash with no value whatsoever.
>CS
6/10
Not as bad as SS, not as good as the others. A mediocre game but not bad.
>Origami King
8/10
Incredible music and visuals with likeable characters and fun environments to explore. The battle system is terrible and drags down a game that would otherwise be the best in the series.
>likeable characters and fun environments to explore
>a game that would otherwise be the best in the series
Top kek.
I share your opinion but i'd bump up 64 for being a much more consistent experience than TTYD. Unlike the latter, there's virtually zero low points and every chapter is still fun on a replay.
To me the atmosphere of TTYD puts it above 64 even if it falls behind with consistency. 64's world is very generic Mario whereas TTYD does some more outlandish things. The gameplay in 64 is also a bit too easy to break by using the metal hat item. This was a major oversight by the developers.
TTYD has way more broken shit in it than 64 does; you have to actively try to keep that game fair and balanced
I actually like 64's atmosphere better. The pop-up kid's picture book aesthetic meshes together perfectly with the charming somewhat simplistic story while TTYD has this weird almost edgy grit to it that doesn't really blend with the artstyle that much.
Well the edgy grit you're talking about is anime. TTYD is supposed to be like an anime, and I like anime.
>weird almost edgy grit to it that doesn't really blend with the artstyle that much.
It does though.
64 is like you said a kid's picture book.
TTYD is a comic book.
I'm fricking tired of people pretending that color splash was significantly better than sticker star, it's the same exact shit. It literally doubled down on everything sticker star did; trash combat system, shitty paper puns, Things, toad galore, trash story, etc. It only made those elements slightly less bad, yet people are pretending it's some massive improvement
if sticker star is 0/10 (which it is) then color splash is maximum 4/10 if you're feeling generous
I may be somewhat biased in this comparison because I hate the 3DS in general. Piece of shit hardware with a tiny screen and bad controls. I had one but there's no game I'd consider good on it.
That's just Wii U owners trying to justify their paperweight; every game on that system is rated higher than it deserves except DKC TF
It's debatably worse in some ways due to you
>Actually being 100% forced to use Things against bosses, even if you hack the game you cannot kill them until you use the needed Thing card
>The menuing for combat is worse and slower alongside animations
>It has plenty of segments of you getting a Game Over spontaneously from a random event like the Chain Chomp chasing you
>You can get 9999 coins to have 0 issue before Lemmy
>Worst of all there is 0 way to tell how much damage you're dealing to an enemy since it's all based on their body being painted which is a cute visual in a way but taking out any and all numbers just makes it so much harder to be actually strategic while being resourceful
Also this is more subjective but I'll always hate how they gave everything a shitty outline alongside everything having choppy animation.
Fixed
>64
9/10
A consistent experience and neatly balanced game with better bosses and music than its brother. Level design is pretty good in this one. Its much better than TTYD because it doesn't try to bloat it battle system
>TTYD
7/10
Retains the battle elements from its brother, but ruins it by adding extra crap like giving mario 7 hp bars, enemies that barely reach HP count of the pervious game, garbage rng from the stage and audience. The overworld exploration and level design is complete garbage, left to right trash (backtracking included)
>SPM
0/10
Attempts to take the edgy trash like shadow peach and run with it, but this time the whole game is about count cuck who is sad! The gameplay loves to waste your time, like running on a wheel for 15 minutes, having to write down a long passcode, etc. The combat is Mario bros 1 if it was bad. The fact anyone likes this game tells me they'll put up with served shit if it has sprinkles on it (OCs and Story)
SS
8/10
A very bland game on the surface, but its pretty interesting with how you can complete the entire game out of order. Since there is no story, the level design gets a boost in quality and the combat system is fine. Bosses are pretty tough too.
CS
6/10
Its SS 2, but worse, its slower in all areas. They ruined the boss fights by forcing you to use weakness cards on them, taking an incentive to experiment or have a fun fight and tossing in the trash. The areas are more interesting, but the pacing is awful with the first boss fight being 3 hours in and fighting nothing but shy guys
TOK
9/10
focusing on not being a weird version of the PM battle system and running with a true puzzle system works in this title as seen by the boss fights, truly spectacular fights, however the normal fights are serviceable at best. Overworld enemies are a great addition to the series and the multiple ways of traversal shake things up. Game strives in variety.
Yeah, you're pretty spot-on here.
SS trilogy is rated waaaay too high
>64
9/10
Systemically it's worse than TTYD, but a lot of gameplay design elements are better. The overworld is a big one, even if it's less inspired on a story/style level.
>TTYD
9/10
Better systems, worse world design, significantly more interesting writing. Very inconsistent.
>SPM
6/10
A downgrade in a lot of respects. Still playable, still interesting in writing terms, but suffers.
>SS
2/10
Nothing going for it other than it wasting a few hours of your life without breaking horribly.
>CS
4/10
A slightly improved version of SS. Literally nothing else.
>OK
6/10
A slightly improved version of CS that pays some lipservice to the older games.
Bump CS to 3/10 and TOK to 5/10 and it's perfect
>OK
>A slightly improved version of CS
It overhauled the gameplay a lot. I think calling it a "slightly improved version" is misleading.
Same shitty exploration, except now you've got a battle ring.
Throwing "but you have to play a puzzle to line up the enemies" into common battles and making boss fights into another type of gimmick is a slight improvement.
>Real Sticker Star has never been tried
OK made the game a lot better with the hidden toads and actual boss battles alone.
Yup, I'm thinking you should have a nice day. Saged btw.
Given that the last two games have both gotten progressively better, do you think the next PM game will cross the line into being great again? Seems like all they mostly need to do is get rid of ring battles and add more badges.
Not as long as they keep trying out these wack-ass gimmicky battle systems
The ironic thing is that Tanabe said he created the ring battle system for the hardcore audience. So he actually made the gimmick for us not for casuals.
there's nothing hardcore about it; it's just baby puzzles all the way through.
It's definitely more difficult than just choosing attacks in a menu, but more difficult isn't automatically a good thing. If you had to file your taxes every time you started a battle, that would be harder but I wouldn't enjoy it.
>It's definitely more difficult than just choosing attacks in a menu
that mentality is why we keep getting shit like this
I think the reason we keep getting stuff like this is because Nintendo doesn't believe JRPGs can sell well, but that doesn't mean making it half JRPG half I don't even know what is going to make it sell more. They need to either commit to the core RPG audience or try out a different genre entirely like action.
It's not. But it does have a lot of areas of opportunity that the sequels could've improved upon had Nintendo not dropped the formula with Sticker Star.
Improvements that the sequels could've had:
>an actual post-game
>meaningful sidequests
>partners being more involved in the story beyond their introduction chapter
>meaningful Po100T
>completionist rewards
>an actual post-game
Well it's already really long. Like REALLY long. And there's the pit. I think it's a good reward.
>meaningful sidequests
True.
>partners being more involved in the story beyond their introduction chapter
I'd say they could solve it by having defined partners talk instead of the one you've got currently on. So maybe they could even interact.
Game Informers review was correct about this game.
This makes the arlo Gankertendies on here seethe. Their game was never beloved.
Arlo is actually a moronic TOKgay
Uhh, what? No? He literally made a 2 hour followup video ranting about it and he nearly cries towards the end.
He goes about saying that TOK is a decent/good game only brought down by the battle system.
This is wrong. TOK is bad on so many levels that calling it a decent game or worse, a good one, means you're either an actual kid or an easily impressed moron. It's full of glaring, obvious issues that have nothing to do with the battles.
>How are the villains looking for the second Crystal Star without the map??
I thought they explicitly stated that the X-nauts knew the locations of three of the stars: The one in Hooktail's Castle, Boggly Woods, and the one they had. They just found those through...intel or something. I mean, they've been looking for the Crystal Stars for way longer. Also, they had Beldam on their side, who was probably present when the Crystal Stars were created.
>Female reviewer
All I had to read to ignore
Would you? Koops dad did
translators were based back then
That's not even a translator thing
You telling me this would make it in 2022? not a chance
Bug fables chads stay winning
Games aside is it better to have 64’s partner system or TTYD’s partner system?
I prefer TTYD since as much as PM64 is my favorite game I feel like stunning your party member just makes the pace of fights a bit of a slog, especially with fights like the Lantern Ghost and final Bowser.
TTYD's partner system needs a rebalance to prevent you from having 6 meat shields available at all times. Maybe have a lot more attacks that focus Mario. Or maybe Mario gets handicapped when a partner dies.
TTYD but partners can't always act as meat shields.
Bash SPM all you frickers want but at least it doesn't make you backtrack hardly at all.
>returning to Fleep with toilet paper
>getting the Cragnon password
>finding all three parts for the elemental pillars
>going to the bottom of the Underwhere staircase for a key item
>Chapter 7-3 in general
There's five really good examples of backtracking in the game.
I wanna lick koops's tight turtle hole
I'll post this again
Anything after SPM is irredeemable shit and an embarrassment to the series as a whole
64 >= TTYD >>> SPM >>>>>>>>>>>>> TOK >>>>> CS >>> SS
>devs were so lazy they forgot to even fill in a door they removed properly
It really isn't.
Like, we've been chasing the polygon meme for the past 20 years, because that's what the gameshow watchers want. They put so much effort into making things realistic, and then they fail to do anything fantastic with that realism aside from MAYBE a giant monster. OH MY GAWRD ITS GODZIRRA.
This is just paper, a story book coming to life and doing paper things. How isn't that cool? Things can be so crazy and wild, but crazy and wild means risky business venture.
Know what's more unnerving than your homosexual fricking Indiana Jones villains? Blood-crying baby with a wicker puppet that's trying to tear you into pieces.
It's moronic.
>64
10/10. Great pacing, great look, great level design, great gameplay. The whole game is the good part of the game.
>TTYD
9/10. Upgraded combat compared to 64. Backtracking/bloat/worse level design knocks it down a point. Some chapters and segments are not great. Still great to play though
>Super Paper Mario
5/10. Completely different. If you like it, good for you. Some okay ideas/execution
>Every Paper Mario game after SPM
0/10 unless you are an actual baby.
>erm but erm technically Origami King erm acktually improved on a concept that erm Sticker Star originall-
Nobody cares. You are comparing 3 month old dogshit to 10 month old dogshit. You have bad tastes
Mostly agree but let's end the whole 64>TTYD meme. Better level design and harder enemies doesn't make up for much less interesting substories/writing/setting/world.
Not him
They're about equal but it comes down to one's own preference in the end.
There isn't much of a reason to debate these two when there are CS and TOK trannies gaslighting 64 and TTYD enthusiasts into thinking their games weren't good in the first place
Agreed that's it's subjective. I personally think SOUL and writing is what sets TTYD apart, otherwise you might as well be playing Bug Fables (aka the real new Paper Mario).
But they're both great.
For me it's just subjective. If you are more of a story person or really like the setting and characters in TTYD. I totally get it. I really love some of the areas and characters in TTYD. If I was rating both games on their first playthrough I'd just give both a 10. I just really do think replaying TTYD you notice some of the weaker chapters or sections that aren't very fun to do again. If TTYD had a fricking spindash I'd give it a 10
64 > TTYD > SPM > TOK > CS > SS