Competitive Pokemon is a joke.

Work smarter (legally), not harder

Im sinply saying a team does not take 30 hours to grind for. This isnt gen 4. You shouldnt gen just like you shouldnt skip the turnstile at a subway, but it's clear I'm not going to convince you otherwise, all I can do now is warn you you better not get caught if you must cheat.

>Piracy isn't theft
Way to argue something nobody has said. If you got a copy of Pokemon Scarlet through the freeshop or a .cia I don't care. Homebrew is based. But in a tournament you aren't getting free software, you are entering a competition against other people. To cheat is to do wrong by every participant in that event that doesn't cheat because you have resources they didn't have access to.
>inb4 muh discord bots
because it is against the rules

>Not playing story mode before going to a competitive tournament does less than fricking nothing to hurt GF
Thats not the argument or the problem
>You actually can't bullshit out a scenario where even testing for genning is valid in the first place.
Dont need to
>get stumped by basic ethics questions.
What question have you asked that hasnt been adressed?

>How does generating a legal team confer an advantage to a player against those that raised their teams on-cart?

You're using a third party program to gen a perfect team. Doesn't matter if it's a legal team. It's against the rules.

I did answer the question, not my problem if you don't like the answer. It's not about the legality of the team, it was the means of getting that team. Not sure why this is so hard to understand. It's not a complicated thing to understand unless you were a delusional manchild. I'm not even the original anon you were replying to

We're going in circles now.

And you're not reading. That question has been answered several times already. It doesn't change anything.

This argument means nothing because the rule will never change.

No one cares what you think.

Then why agree to it by entering the tournament

>it's bad
>why
>because i say its bad
>why
>because its bad
Yes, YOU are going in circles.

>the people who run the tournament say it's bad.
why do they say it's bad, though? And why do you agree?
>we have nothing further to
Anon you can only pull the 'I'm not responding anymore' card a certain number of times while still responding to every single post before you just sound desperate.

Your inability to answer the question reveals that you know the rule is based on Nintendo huffing its own farts, i.e. fricking nothing, and every adult human that hasn't been beaten by society to the point of fetishizing bootlicking understands that rules with no meaningful grounding can be ignored.
Conversely, your clinging to the corporate position on this demonstrates that you are one of said bootlicking fetishists.
So again, I ask you, why does Nintendo say it's bad and why do you agree?

>YOU WILL FOLLOW THE RULES AND YOU WILL EAT THE SLOP GOY
no

nta, but it's just a simple thems the rules type of shit. An event organizer set an expectation and not meeting it comes with a punishment from point deduction to disqualification. If they set a dress code and you turn up dressed differently they can boot you.
As to why they set the rule I would guess they want people to play the game to keep the aesthetic of being a pokemon trainer. I dont personally agree with it, however I do agree that the event organizer has the right to set and enforce whatever rules they want.

>rules good not because one corporation said so
>but because every corporation says so!
You'd enjoy watching other men sleep with your partner if you had any kind of human contact.

I accept your concession

It's a children's video game, they don't have to change shit. GameFreak wants you to log hours in game, trading things between players, and winning and losing battles. VGC is an unprofitable marketing expense, and nothing more.
Sure you can wish for them to cater to your postgame grind, but they've done the exact opposite with no battle facilities. You're supposed to play the game casually. Want to sweat? Stick to showdown or go play a different game that is intended to be competitive. They won't listen to you, it's been 25+ years of inaccessible postgame grind.

>GameFreak wants you to log hours in game
I don't care what GameFreak wants

You mean when they compete to build their own clout and social media presence, leading to both prize money and advertiser/merch sponsorships.
No normal people are tuning into VGC because of GameFreak or TPCI. I guess people like you don't understand that?

So stay there.

>the answer is that it confers no advantage beyond avoiding a massive fricking timewaste
If anything, genning levels the playing field since many of the top players can bypass the same timewaste through money/connections.

You're literally doing the
>whats 2+2? And dont say 4!
As said before if cheaters never existed I still don't need every game or to grind everything to acquire everything I need for the team; I could shiny hunt or put up a legend I have on GTS to get what I need. I can buy mints or get them from raids. I could do the same with vitamins or just power item train like the old days. Not only is it fast and easy, there are many ways to do it to get the results you want. For the huper specific such as 0IV legends there are hyper specific ways to do it. If you dont agree that putting in that amount of effort should yield that amount of reward than so be it, but that doesn't just dismantle the fact that the level of hyper-specific optimized results are being aquired without the otherwise needed effort through genning and I need you to agknowladge that ignoring the rules of the competition means ignoring the merit of the sport, regardless of if you don't agree with the idea of putting in the time for prep.

In 2010 it was hours, but today it's minutes with the only exception being legend IVs

When you're in the tournament you're not competing to see who can grind Pokemon and items the hardest, you're BATTLING Pokemon. That's ALL the tournament is about, the grind to actually build a team is completely arbitrary and pointless since there's no difference between a genned team and a manually built team besides time and money and actively detrimental to the competitors since every hour spent grinding for your team is time spent NOT practicing, analyzing the competition, refining your strategy, ya know, playing the part of the game the tournament is actual about.

Nobody needed you to tell them that, captain fricking obvious. Nobody is defending players who genned their pokemon wrong despite knowing ahead of time they'd be getting tested.

Nobody needed you to tell them that, captain fricking obvious. Nobody is defending players who genned their pokemon wrong despite knowing ahead of time they'd be getting tested.

morons. people have been saying this from the start. VGCucks have been b***hing and whining that they shouldn't get penalized for breaking the rules. There ever only was TWO options. You guys are sitting here whining about playing the game, as if that's going to change anything. Genning will never be legal, why b***h about it?

>It literally is if your Pokemon passes the gen check lmfao

Point to me exactly where TPC endorses Kurt and PkHex.

>Avoiding the question
Exactly, that's what I thought Black person. No one cares about your made-up rules.

Made-up rules that you agreed to.

Just because you're good at Smogon battles you aren't entitled to go to VGC if you can't follow their rules.

You are allowed to disagree with the rules, just peotest the tournament by not being in it. To argue so confidently yet still participate and say you are following the rules when you are not is moronic

See

>making the best possible team to win
No it doesn't. There is no skill in doing a 30 hour grind to replicate a meta team, which is all the top VGC players would be doing if genning were actually removed. There's no skill to it, just sheer RNG, and the skills VGC as a metagame aims to test out is prediction and reaction.

>How else do you make pokemon tournament ready in the confines of the rules?
Gen them legally.
But your post is entirely moon logic. VGC didn't enforce rules against genned Pokemon for over a decade so... what? Did Nintendo not value developing a team until 5 minutes ago? And either way why should players care what Nintendo values or doesn't value? It can't be shown that what Nintendo does or doesn't value is helping the VGC player community in any way.

So they didn't enforce the rules. Lightly recommending people not generate Pokemon because something might eventually happen and they wouldn't like that very much is not enforcement. So it evidently wasn't in line with their 'values' or whatever cope bullshit until 5 minutes ago.

Imagine spending thousands of dollars for your pokemon themed vacation(because realistically that's all these events are) and risking the main attraction on a probably.

If you stole my wallet and I can't prove it was you, did you steal my wallet?

>stole
you can't steal something by replicating it, moron. That's why I brought up piracy earlier.
The comparison you're trying to make is if there's a wallet sitting on the ground with no form of ID and no clear owner, is it ethical to take it and it's contents? Which the majority of people would do even if they agreed that it was theoretically unethical or if the law required otherwise. You can't demonstrate that the person in that scenario has harmed anybody else, and certainly nobody feels as though they've harmed anybody, so any law against that action would be entirely subjective and on behalf of nobody. It's the same thing with piracy.

>you better not break arbitrary indefensible rules at the videogame tournament or your conscious is going to be upset
Nope, because my conscious isn't persuaded by legalism.

Certainly superior to bootlickers that defending arbitrary and indefensible rules for no reason

>YOU WILL FOLLOW THE RULES AND YOU WILL EAT THE SLOP GOY
no

You're not above the rules.

cool story sister, but Genning is still illegal. You don't have to acknowledge it, doesn't make it any less true. Let's hope you don't complain like you are now when more people are caught in the future. Cause it will happen. It's inevitable.

What was the purpose of this post?

>Ok, punishment where?

You were saying?

Just because he wasn't caught doesn't mean it makes it legal. Do you really need this explain to you?

Yeah, extreme genners have this criminal mentality, their lack of self awareness is insane.

>no argument
Concession accepted.

Imagine just admitting to being a bootlicker who gets off on seeing authority used arbitrarily against others. Disgusting.

you're not very good at reading

I get what you're saying. I don't want anyone hurt but if you agree to rules you agree to the dangers or consequences. I think for this I'd default to the concept of gross negligence where if the person agrees to terms that may have some risk but are misled just how risky it is, or misled the condition of what they are doing the morality of that falls on the organizers. If I go rock climbing I accept the risks involved, but if my harnessing equipment is ripping apart or the hooks are so rusty they become brittle under my body weight that shouldn't be something I had to calculate ahead of time.
I knownlittle of NASCAR in honesty so if these limiter plates were known to be so dangerous it depends if the racer was aware of this risk.

So the rules are never worth re-examining or changing, because 'thems the rules', even when those rules do literally result in traumatic brain injuries and death. That's really the standard you're going with? There is no point in which its okay to demand rules be changed or disregard them, because 'thems the rules,' even to the point of physical harm?

Nobody was talking to you, moron-kun. Go back to

[...]

with your fricking reaction gif and stay go.

Are you a tourist? Can't think of a single anon here who wouldn't have a giggle seeing someone get BTFO'd like that

/vp/ is notoriously full of the worst kinds of autistic degenerates so that's not exactly solid logic my guy. The schizo talking to himself in his child character vore thread would laugh? Guess everyone else better do the same!

>awareness of the abundance of hacked teams in Worlds can bring a bad reputation to the sport
How, exactly? Showdown is the biggest thing in competitive Pokemon and it absolutely doesn't interact with real game carts at all. Nobody is under the delusion that VGC has anything to do with normal gameplay except distant Japanese salarymen. In the same way that pro CSGO players aren't measured by their performance in matchmaking, people know VGC players have very little to do with the core game.
I mean frick's sake, 6v6 pick 4 doubles is NOT EVEN A PLAYABLE FORMAT in the story mode.

>The only option would be for them to legalize genning
Or keep the rules unenforced like they did for a decade or more without controversy. Of course doubling back on stupid rules now would mean tacitly admitting they were bad, and nothing is more upsetting to the distant asiatic salarymen than admitting a mistake.
Or GameFreak could fundamentally change (read: improve) their mobile-tier dogshit gameplay, although that's not a VGC-specific complaint.

Game was fine for over a decade with bad rules that went unenforced, the decision to start enforcing (but even then not really) said bad rules did not make the game better.
>y-y-y-you m-m-mad b-b-b-b-bro!!?
Gonna have to try harder than that my guy.

Anon why are you mad that I don't respect the rules? Show me why the rules are worthy of respect.
I've already done this song and dance multiple times in this same thread, you're not getting points for originality here

>integrity of the sport
Nintendo didn't think it was ruining the integrity of the sport when they allowed people to generate without saying shit for over a decade

That is arguing something else entirely. If I rock climb I am under the impression it is with modern saftey standards to minimize my risk. Just because something is inherently dangerous doesn't mean improvements to prevent harm or death should not be involved. But the last argument about NASCAR and football did not pose that the players were attempting to use constructs outside of regulations to improve their saftey and simultaneously were compelled to participate. If I am aware of some bullshit danger in Football in the 1920s I could simply reject playing in thr game, I always had that option. I'm assuming the previous post did assume that option to, but if the player was not aware of the risk there is a nonzero chance that ethically falls on the employer of the team to either inform the player or not hire him without having that knowladge, depending on how common this knowladge is.
I have said in this thread before if GF would be willing to introduce some "competitive box" where we could build our own rental team but only for pvp/competitions I'd be perfectly content with that. I wouldn't hate the time saved either frankly. The hard line I'm drawing is that because I understand the rules, because I understand the work I will need to put into my team for the competition and because I agreed to these rules I am obligated to follow them, and if I don't I'm unsportsmanlike and cannot say I am a winner in the sport.

>But the last argument about NASCAR... did not pose that the players were attempting to use constructs outside of regulations to improve their saftey and simultaneously were compelled to participate
This did actually happen with NASCAR's restrictor plates, there were all kinds of controversies and many fans and players openly and loudly arguing that they made the sport more dangerous. Things didn't change until Dale Earnhardt Sr, probably the single most famous driver in all of NASCAR, fricking died in a crash and a lot of the blame was put on restrictor plates which had caused him tons of problems in earlier races.
Tangent aside, your choice to measure your worth as a competitor against how well you can play the game Rules-As-Written is simply not the mindset of most competitors in higher level sports, whether it be e-sports or the Olympics. Most sporting events and communities have continual controversy between fans, players, and the rulemakers and there is a constant flux to the rules, There was a period in competitive Baseball during the 90s where virtually every major player was on steroids and nobody did anything about it, because it was deemed by the players, fans, the officiators, and the advertising networks that Roidball was more engaging. Then the pendulum swung back and right now competitive baseball is seeing a sharp decline in audience and player engagement despite being a much more strict sport.
Nintendo do not have the objectively correct viewpoint on how VGC should be played. Players, fans (to some degree) and officiator positions need to be considered for the sake of the health of the game, both meta-competitively and in terms of viewer engagement (since that's ultimately where the money comes from and the reason comp events even happen).

For starters I've lost all respect for VGC players and I know I'm not alone
This just makes competition look bad
Whining about rules that are never going to change for a solid week is only making it worse

Who plays high level VGC and isnt terminally online? I honestly wonder if I should hang around in more pro discords and VGC showdown chat to get more player insight. I've gotten really weird latley and can't seem to muster the energy to pretend to be jolly just to make and keep new friends.

Depends on the year
the ecelebs have always sucked

Good faith does exist in this world, you cynical ass. It's what makes trade and businesses possible. But since, in your manchild head, everything is about you and whether or not it benefits you, you can't help but project your own cynism into society as a whole.

>NO YOU'RE MAD
Yes, MAD with curiosity why someone would ape out if genning is so easy, You've made it clear you think you're above the rules and you intend to keep genning. cool. Why does enforcing the rules matter then?

Sure you can, the rule that says which pokemon you're allowed to use for a format.
That one is worth respecting because if I could use Incineroar right now, that would actually be a tangible advantage in my favor in battle.

>You can't pick and choose which rules to follow
Why not? I won't be caught if I do it properly. Tell me what's stopping me.

Because making surface-level rules that discourage genning does more to scare away new players than it does to restrict the actions of established players, so you're raising the barrier to entry while not in any way disincentivizing the action that the rule was created to prevent.

Cute, but demonstrably untrue considering VGC has only grown in the over a decade that Nintendo has utterly failed to enforce the no-genning rule.

Literally doesn't matter so I don't know what point you think you're making. Genning being tacitly allowed was clearly not discouraging people from jumping into VGC. Freezing people out of being able to use certain mons unless they buy a bunch of obsoleted hardware to do legitimate tradeups AND a huge timesink while top players just have connects to do that for them is openly moronic. Nintendo should fix that problem and then they might have legitimate cause to ban genning.

>IF YOU GEN POKEMON YOU ARE L I T E R A L L Y JUST AS BAD AS A RAPIST
Take a long look in the mirror and realize how much of an absolute psycho you sound like

It's almost like the existence of the rule is what's holding them back from being on equal footing.

How do you know they're hackers if they don't trip the detection tool?

>Complains he can't use his perfect IV team that was created with a third party program
>Complains about barrier to entry for new players

>Yes I can? Getting past the detector is piss easy.
Now read the rest of the post.

Seems like most people are doing fine without the use of PKhex.

You act like the third-party program is any kind of barrier. If you have Internet access, you have access to genned Pokemon.
That's why the rule is bad; it existing objectively makes the game less accessible and it being properly enforced makes the game less competitive. No one wins or comes out happy with this rule if it's properly enforced.

If everyone playing VGC collectively for over a decade agreed that genning wasn't hurting the format... it wasn't hurting the format.

I'm telling people you should break this rule because the Pokemon becomes more accessible and competitive when the rule is broken.

why get mad if they enforce the rules?
I'm not mad. I'm allowed to call out a moronic choice in any way I please, even if I'm not the victim of said choice and never will be.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Frick around and find out

>the fantasy the games are structured around that the players at these competitions all trained their Pokemon
Nobody who plays or watches VGC ascribes to this fantasy though. Your argument literally is just saying "I'm ignorant about competitive play culture." Again, Nintendo did nothing about genning for over a decade and the audience engagement and player pool have only increased as PkHex and trade bots have become more well-known.

>the people defending the VGC rules change are delusional manchildren that think serious players enjoy garbage mechanics like breeding and enounter resetting
Not exactly a good look, but we both know the reality is that people defending the VGC rules change are just autistics that are mad other people don't choke on GF/Nintendo's wiener and have better things to do with their lives than take bullets for a multi-billion dollar corporation.

>Nobody who plays or watches VGC ascribes to this fantasy though. Your argument literally is just saying "I'm ignorant about competitive play culture."
I'm gonna need a source on that. Not gonna take the word of a cheater apologist at face value. The fact you try to reduce this to "only what I, the competitor do, matters, nothing else" shows you are some kind special needs turbo autist since the most basic common sense and social awareness evades you so easily.

Pachirisu used the move Electrify to force the enemy's moves into electric type attakcs which would then do nothing against his partner Garchomp. Combined with Follow Me and Nuzzle it was an amazing support Pokemon pick chosen because the strategy fit so perfectly.

this is moronic and literally not true. Even ignoring genning it's extremely common for competitors to have other people breed, raise, and train their teams

Which is true btw

I think the real scare for new players is actually the thousands of dollars to attend the event. Right now anyone can hop on showdown and experience the meta, for free/no time comit. If they like it, they can then start investing into it.

Also true. Im a 30 year old man with a car and vacation time yet cant find local PCs closer than 3 hours away and cant easily afford to hotel myself halway across the country multiple times a year alone. Shit sucks. It was easier when I was younger and all my friends still went to regionals together.

>Uh yeah that is how a lot of people feel, they believe the genning problem is out of hand
[citation needed]

>in light of modern improvements making legitimate Pokemon easily obtainable
False

>Playing dumb
>No source

>Gamefreak is literally never going to change this rule there is no point to sperging about it
>DON'T ASK QUESTION JUST CONSUME THE PRODUCT AND OBEY THE RULES

>Was so excited thinking he found a gotcha he didn't bother watching for 30 more seconds where he disregards the time to hunt a shiny and only counts the time to get a 0 attack non-shiny Flutter
How embarrassing

>Oh my god I have to OWN the game to play?
>Game if played in SV
>Need to buy other games and hardware and subscription services if you want to have every option available to you and not be at an objective disadvantage

>I-I-I'm not watching
You already did
>I-I-I couldn't care less
Still bothered to reply

Just take the L

Except nobody's arguing against things like species clause or the 6v6 pick 4 format. Some elements of the competitive format are clearly worth accepting and make the metagame stronger, where the alternative would be 6v6 legendary dittos, and other elements are clearly not.

Game was fine for over a decade with bad rules that went unenforced, the decision to start enforcing (but even then not really) said bad rules did not make the game better.
>y-y-y-you m-m-mad b-b-b-b-bro!!?
Gonna have to try harder than that my guy.

>Or keep the rules unenforced like they did for a decade or more without controversy.
So then some people can break the rules but others cant? I hate it even more

Why do the rules matter so much that they need to be enforced?

Anon why are you mad that I don't respect the rules? Show me why the rules are worthy of respect.
I've already done this song and dance multiple times in this same thread, you're not getting points for originality here

By saying you agree to the rules in entering you are saying you promise to respect them. If I'm talking to someone who has 0 interest in playing the tour and is just stating your opinion then you're free to go, but that's not the conversation I'm under the impression I'm having.

tell that to the 2k I made this year from daddy tpci off of pkhex, stay mad

more than you made typing that salty post, and I had a lot more fun

Don't care
Didn't ask
VGC is a joke
Die coping

Looks like they did recently. Not sure why anyone is surprised.

Everyone is above the rules.

>I just feel particular about the principal of the matter when it comes to competition between 2 or more people in a sport.
So you'd defend objectively moronic garbage that has literally gotten people killed, like limiter plates in NASCAR races or not having to wear any kind of protective gear for DECADES in American football, because "the officials said so and thems the rules"?
Not trying to equate Pokemon rules and real life dangerous sport rules here, beyond questioning where you draw the line between being a bootlicker for the noble cause of sport and exercising your own free will.

>We aren't given rental teams.
You should though. Genning for comp would die in an instant if they just added showdowns battle simulator to the game itself and let competitors just simulate their teams in game. There's literally no reason not to do this, it puts everybody on an even playing field and eliminates the time and money barrier to entry.

A) Rental Teams are already a thing, all that's missing is the ability to manipulate the numbers.

B) If VGC cares so much about legality, they should address the underlying issue for why so many players gen their mons. """Cheaters""" are just a symptom of the game having arbitrary money and time sinks that don't do anything to test player skills. VGC is a joke because the only way most people even bother competing is through using third party programs to circumvent the retreated barrier of entry.

Should? I can get behind that. But we aren't given that, you can't just ignore the rules and expect different because you morally disagree.

Why shouldn't I ignore a rule that isn't probably enforced?
What stopping you from committing petty theft if you needed the money? Enforceable laws. When a rule isn't enforceable, it's worth dogshit.
If they're not going to make me get rid of my properly genned pokemon, why would I do it willingly?

First of all, not everyone gens. Second, playing the games is not an artificial barrier. The point of Genning is to avoid playing the games and it doesn't matter how many mental loops you jump through to avoid that fact. You can Gen all you want, but it will always remain illegal, and if you get caught that's on you.

>Yes they do
Stop reading right there.
You're delusional.

Genning will remain illegal. Doesn't matter how much you cry about it.

>The advantage it gives you over other players who are following the rules make it amoral.
What's the advantage? Assuming a genned player is making game-legal Pokemon that pass on the online ladder, meaning no impossible stats or moves?

>making the best possible team to win
No it doesn't. There is no skill in doing a 30 hour grind to replicate a meta team, which is all the top VGC players would be doing if genning were actually removed. There's no skill to it, just sheer RNG, and the skills VGC as a metagame aims to test out is prediction and reaction.

>Yes they do
Stop reading right there.
You're delusional.

Genning will remain illegal. Doesn't matter how much you cry about it.

You're using a third party program (not endorsed by TPC/against the rules/against the law in Japan) to generate a perfect IV'd team for an official competition and you're confused why people are getting disqualified? Gen all you want, but it's a risk you take regardless of how "undetectable" they are. (which is funny cause Kurt always points out when teams are genned) If and when you or someone get caught you cannot complain. The rules do not cater to you, play the game or gen properly.

I don't get the morality angle. I am sure there are idiots who think that people who gen pokemon are evil, but it's just against the rules.
Petition for the rules to change, boycot events, start talks with TPC/GF do whatever you feel is right. Until then is it so much to ask to follow the rules?
>time sink
>cost
We're talking about profesional pokemon players that spend countless hours practicing, theorycrafting teams and paying for travel and accomodation.

To anyone who defends genning because of accesibility why not advocate for online tournaments people can more easily fit into their schedules? Removes travel time and expenses entirely. Maybe then top VGC players can save up for PLA and rebuying Sw/Sh since half seem to have sold it since they competed last season.

>Doesnt make it right
There is nothing that makes it wrong. It confers no advantage over other players within the skillset being tested by VGC. Genning wasn't seriously tested or opposed at any point until now and nothing has changed as a result. The people who exactly 5 minutes ago jumped on the controversy bandwagon unironically get off to licking Nintendo's boots (and/or just have a huge complex against VGC players).

>The advantage it gives you over other players who are following the rules make it amoral.
What's the advantage? Assuming a genned player is making game-legal Pokemon that pass on the online ladder, meaning no impossible stats or moves?

>Not everyone is a neet with limitless free time to grind a children's video game
So you agree that either the core gameplay needs to be changed to not be an incessant grind and timesink, or the competitive tournaments need to allow people some mechanism to skip that timesink in the name of leveling the playing field

Yes we've already established that VGC and it's rules are a joke and only a corporate boot licker would defend their moronation