FFXIV

>If your initial lifespan was destroying the universe,
It wasn't their lifespan doing that.

>If your lifespan was reduced so that you only lived a week, you wouldn't consider that killing you?
If that one week felt like an entire lifetime no I wouldn't.

>If that one week felt like an entire lifetime no I wouldn't.
Isn't part of this argument that they were supposed to be copies and retained their memories unlike what Emet says in the colab? Meaning it wouldn't feel like a lifetime, it would feel like you were aging a million years in a week.

It's written by Banri Oda. Cope.

Sure

>Analogies kind of imply, I don't know... analogous situations. Not things that are completely incomparable
thatsthepoint.wav

Yes dumbo, it's almost like a situation where 99% of the world is wiped out and the last remaining city needs to organize their own self sacrifice to summon a god to stop the apocalypse is a situation incomparable to anything else and trying to b***h about peer pressure in that environment is a joke.

Yeah, it makes them human. Although I think with Venat EW made it more a matter of "oh well I guess I'm just going to have to do this if I can't change their mind, it's already settled" rather than a rebel taking a gamble on what she believes to be right. Which in my opinion removes a lot of the human element from her decisions and makes her pretty boring to me.

Ancients must not have very high sex drives with their lifespans being so massive. Imagine how many kids you could have just in like 10,000 years.

Because there's implied societal pressure to do it. People treat Venat weirdly because she didn't KYS herself after she passed the mantle onto Azem. There's a lot of stuff about how weirdly strict, formal, and autistic the Ancients' culture was, where they basically pressure each other to be hyper-conformists without any individuality and to act as cogs in a machine that kill themselves when their usefulness is over, while also trying to suppress the emotions they clearly have.

The entire point is that it's supposed to be a clear exposure of the flaws of a "utopia," hence why half of the names and shit in it are references to Thomas More's "Utopia." It's a collectivist ideal with all of the horrors that implies. Individuality, freedom, and enjoyment are stamped out or seen as anti-social oddities that people shun. Everybody dresses the same, hides their features, hides their true selves, are referred to by title as often as by name, obsess over duty and try to hide their emotions, etc.

I absolutely agree with you and it's why I think the second arc of Samurai quests is fricking dogshit and shits all over the first arc. It completely ignores what Musosai teaches you. It also stands against pretty much every single theme and message of the entire rest of the game. It's bizarre and dumb, probably the worst job questline in the game. At least Paladin's bullshit is them being idiots to each other and not supporting somebody that's objectively worse than the villain of Heavensward.

>"THEY SHOULD HAVE JUST DIED AND NEVER SUMMONED ZODIARK!!!"
That's not what I said. You said they should
>[move] forward and accept what had happened,
IE those sacrifices to Zodiark, IE those deaths. So in that situation, in contrast to their earlier behavior where death was just a normalcy, they were refusing to accept it anymore. So then, in that situation should they have just accepted those deaths and moved on?
>The argument is about whether ego death/cultural destruction counts as genocide.
That's literally what the word was invented to describe, so yes it does.

>leaving them unequipped to deal with death when it was no longer a choice.
I'm pretty sure it was the trauma of watching their loved ones be slaughtered in front of them that did that.

>How can you even argue that they had a healthy understanding of death when their immediate reaction after the Final Days was to start culling the cycle of life they supposedly committed suicide in order to protect?
It's almost like trauma causes people to do things that they normally wouldn't do. Fricking crazy isn't it?

Did WoL trade all those dead Garleans to a primal instead of letting them join the Lifestream? Do you know how a cycle works?

There's also a universe scale Lifestream they mention in Ultima Thule. Aether flows between planets, and between galaxies.

Black person, Hythlodaeus didn't even want to hear the word 'death'. Thinking of the process as 'death' made him and other Ancients uncomfortable. You have no argument.

>Meanwhile, Hermes got so triggered over Hythlodaeus's speech that he ended up triggering Meteion.
Yeah, was rightfully triggered by the frivolous way everyone else treated death. Death isn't something to be taken lightly. It's something to be respected, and the choice to die is something that should be carefully considered and should weigh heavily upon everyone involved. To them it wasn't, and that's the problem. That's exactly what killed them in the end.

>And choosing to die when you've lived a long life and have fulfilled your goals isn't doing that?
Not when we see the characters treating it as "well he thinks it's time to retire so he's going to kill himself, anyway you want his job?" You can see this same idea extend to their experiments with new life in Elpis, where they think so little of living and dying that they casually make and unmake new lives.

So you're saying mommy killed people and then new people replaced them?

This is going back to the same semantics argument about if ego death counts as genocide. You people need to get a grip. Venat completely destroyed the culture and identity of the Ancients. Nobody was killed in a literal sense, the same exact people were there before and after the sundering. You seem to think the argument over this point is about whether or not anyone suffered, and not a semantics argument about whether or not ego death counts as actual death.

>where they think so little of living and dying that they casually make and unmake new lives.
But death is often treated as a joke, with life being cheap, in the modern day as well. If Elpis is an expression of this with the Ancient's creations, doesn't every farmer, hunter, or animal breeder in the modern world also bear that responsibility?

I think the core of the issue here is that the nature of mankind really hasn't changed from then to now. We've seen how many people sacrifice themselves to Primals?
>Nobody was killed in a literal sense, the same exact people were there before and after the sundering.
Until they died from their drastically reduced lifespans you mean?

Lahabrea was like an old fricking man even for the Ancients. If he was caught in the sundering, do you think he'd have just lived out the remainder of his "natural" lifespan relative to a sundered human? Or would he have just died on the spot because he was already way way way older than any of them could ever live?

Death is death. XIV's setting has reincarnation, but a soul being reused as the core of a new person doesn't mean that the original bearer of the soul is alive again. Just like WoL isn't Azem and Amon isn't Hermes, a new person is born when that soul resurfaces.

Frick you for posting that nightmare fuel inducing picture.

The devs writing Endwalker around the pandemic to appeal to people like the one you're replying to and can't imagine a society that isn't modernshit was the biggest mistake from the start. You could tear apart any of the Sundered societies the same way with that mindset.

>just swallowing the msq tripe that revolves around trying to make Hermes "sympathetic" and oh poor him he's just surrounded by awful people who don't care (just ignore the sidequests)
>weird headcanon about ancients being happy about people choosing to die
>is having a melty and brings up real life deaths for internet argument cred
>doesn't acknowledge the thousands who actually did die in the final days, and that in shb the scions acknowledged it was a shit situation and they'd try to do the same in Emet's shoes
Average Endwalker enjoyer.

>That's if we believe they would do future sacrifices (For what? Why?)
They already didn't need to do the third sacrifice, so really once you give into the temptation there's no reason not to continue. The fact that they wanted to keep Zodiark instead of coming up with a better permanent solution and releasing the souls speaks volumes. They wanted their god and his power to stick around.
>But doesn't Y'shtola specifically say that the sundering was done at least in part to better allow people to interact with dynamis?
In part, yeah. The sundered have an advantage in that the lower density of aether lets dynamis actually mesh into their bodies, but that can also leave them vulnerable for the same reason. But Ancients could still influence dynamis externally, so they could have beaten Meteion through hope domination the same way.
>If we believe defeating Meteion was possible for the Ancients physically, and it was only their culture holding them back, why didn't Venat just take her followers and leave the Amaurotines? Make her own society?
Can the hope of thirteen people alone overcome Meteion? Who knows. Maybe she feared what they'd do with Zodiark in the meantime. Maybe she was just locked into the decision because of WoL telling her it was fate. Either way, she clearly did try to get the others to find the resolve to hope and continue on. She did want them to beat Meteion.

>It never even got to the point they could consider any other solutions because they never knew what the problem was to begin with, they were just trying to solve "the problem in front of their nose" one at a time.
As far as they knew, the problem was the stagnating celestial currents that Zodiark mended, which also conveniently functioned as a barrier. With that knowledge in hand they had all the time in the world to arrange a more permanent solution to that problem that didn't involve a wish granting soul mech.
>The hope of 14 people did.
WoL was backed up by the hope of like half the people on Etheirys.

Yes, when my father died I accepted it. I grieved and then I moved forward because I'm not an emotionally stunted moron who grew up in a convent where I was told death doesn't real and thus was unprepared for the reality of it.

Holy shit it's like you actually can't fricking read. Do you need me to split it into twitter sized chunks for you?
>The problem was not that they died or chose to continue the cycle of the Lifestream
>but that they were so terrified of the reality of death that they couldn't acknowledge it for what it was
>and thus had invented some flowery fiction of what it entailed
Want the proof that this line of thinking wasn't healthy for them? The very fact that when the Final Days came they threw away this reverence for the planet and the supposed sanctity of that cycle they claimed to be maintaining. Their inability to face the truth of death left them reaping that precious cycle to bring back the lost.

>flowery fiction
But that's the reality of what death is in this setting. You don't just disappear from existence, your soul is reborn. Multiple characters' souls have literally come back from the Lifestream at this point.

I don't even see how their society could work if they did it any other way, the old would monopolize every position of authority and expertise forever and the population would be bursting at the seams if they didn't chose to die.

THE PROBLEM IS NOT THAT THEY DIED AND JOINED THE CYCLE
THE PROBLEM IS THAT THEY COULDN'T EVEN ACKNOWLEDGE IT AS DEATH AND STOPPED RESPECTING IT TO THE POINT THEY COULDN'T COPE WITH IT ONCE IT WASN'T A CHOICE BECAUSE THEY WERE IN DENIAL FOR SO FRICKING LONG

I say "passed on" instead of "died", and I don't want to die painfully either, does that mean that I'm also not respecting death?

Depends, did my loved one tell me beforehand that they plan on doing it?

The ancients can't do anything right in their eyes.
>don't stop a volcano from blowing? woooooow uncaring citygays in their ivory towers
>they stopped the volcano? playing god (only my super cool azem oc can do that!!!!!)

One of those timelines had its Crystal Tower stripped from it. Can't be a loop when you jumped the Crystal Tower across the Rift, into a shard where time ran differently for a hundred of its years.

Could you explain to me why G'raha splits the timeline by averting the Calamity and Venat doesn't by redoing the Sundering?
Let me guess, the answer is: "they changed the rules/retconned"

???

>"I'm sorry anon, thank you for BTFOing me."

Island sanctuary materia.

[...]
Once the WoL turns into a lightwarden/second eden, yeah. But while they’re still humanoid they’re fine, the scions weren’t affected even in Amaurot when the WoL was suffering most.

>WoL is literally radiating so much fricking light bursting from his pores that every zone overflows with Everlasting Light again
>Emet outright says "you're essentially already a Sin Eater, you've just retained your rationality for the moment"
>he also says "those in your company will turn into Sin Eaters, *and in time* you'll hunt innocents to feast on their aether" (IE after your friends turn)

>*and in time*
Yeah.
Like *after* WoL turns.

>>Emet outright says "you're essentially already a Sin Eater
Emet being wienery and proclaiming his victory prematurely? Say it ain't so. If WoL really was already a sin eater, please explain why right now we're in EW and not in the "ascians won" expansion.

They literally mention it multiple times outright, are you idiots really so dense that just because we weren't around them long enough for it to happen you didn't even recognize the threat?

>Still nothing about people just spontaneously turning into sin eaters around us.
Yeah?
>Nobody fricking turns into a sin eater out of nowhere in the entire expansion.
No other one is every Lightwarden all in one. But they talk about how even the ambient aspected power of the Empty is dangerous for people to reside in for too long, or it'll corrupt their aether. In comparison WoL is a walking nuclear meltdown.

>People of Eulmore live day and night right next to a lightwarden and his army of sin eaters.
>Not a single one turns by just being there, any time Vauthry decides to turn someone he has to take them aside and pull a Tesleen on them when no one's watching.

I wonder why that might be?

At that point WoL is Vauthry + 4 other fricking Lightwardens. He's literally spamming Everlasting Light across the entire continent.

You can't possibly be this stupid. In Emet's dialog he literally talks about your friends turning AND THEN you going full Sin Eater, in that order.

>People of Eulmore live day and night right next to a lightwarden and his army of sin eaters.
>Not a single one turns by just being there, any time Vauthry decides to turn someone he has to take them aside and pull a Tesleen on them when no one's watching.

I wonder why that might be?

[...]
>WoL is literally radiating so much fricking light bursting from his pores that every zone overflows with Everlasting Light again
>Emet outright says "you're essentially already a Sin Eater, you've just retained your rationality for the moment"
>he also says "those in your company will turn into Sin Eaters, *and in time* you'll hunt innocents to feast on their aether" (IE after your friends turn)

[...]
They literally mention it multiple times outright, are you idiots really so dense that just because we weren't around them long enough for it to happen you didn't even recognize the threat?

>Still nothing about people just spontaneously turning into sin eaters around us.
Yeah?
>Nobody fricking turns into a sin eater out of nowhere in the entire expansion.
No other one is every Lightwarden all in one. But they talk about how even the ambient aspected power of the Empty is dangerous for people to reside in for too long, or it'll corrupt their aether. In comparison WoL is a walking nuclear meltdown.
[...]
At that point WoL is Vauthry + 4 other fricking Lightwardens. He's literally spamming Everlasting Light across the entire continent.

How would the light aether corrupt anyone around when it's not even able to corrupt the person holding it?

Oh god please don't tell me you were refering to

>"I'm sorry anon, thank you for BTFOing me."

Where he is clearly talking about after you turn into a sin eater, just like Tesleen didn't immediately start doing sin eater shit after turning and instead ran away.

>WoL literally tries to run off alone
Because he's going to turn into a sin eater, yes. You keep mentioning this as if it proves your argument. It doesn't.
>The way Sin Eaters turn people is by disrupting the harmony of people's own aether with an abundance of Light, and even mid-level b***h Sin Eaters can do that.
Yeah, by fricking running through people and then physically injecting them with light, like Emet wants you to do once you've turned into a sin eater. At no point in the game does anyone turn from merely being near a sin eater. At no point in the game does anyone say this is a thing that happens. The only circumstances in which this happens is with the lightwardens, and they explicitly say that's because when the light aether has no vessel it immediately searches for the nearest one. But we're talking about a situation where it does. Until WoL is fully turned and can't fit any more aether at all, it's not gonna go into anyone else.

Stop reading lines that don't say what you want them to say and immediately headcanoning something different.

Yeah, I had hoped after 6.0, but at this point I don't think we'll ever get rid of any on the scions. That problem will be solved in 5 minutes

But is that your inference or is it something they actually say happened?

Are you the same schizo that gets triggered over G'raha? Are you getting triggered over Emet now?

Let's be honest anon, everyone kinda melts that they didn't get to frick their waifus/husbandos by now.
Not daily though.

>tfw I'm not a Zenosgay and it's STILL canon that he was inside of my WoL

>don't melt down daily and scream that the story/game is shit because G'raha didn't get to frick the WoL yet or whatever.
Where are you seeing these Emetgays having meltdowns because he hasn't fricked their WoL?

But they spend every day screeching about how it isn't bad. You don't really think OP was actually badmouthing her, right? It's just a little falseflag bait so he could jump into complaining about trancers, again.

I may have done it a few times as a joke when I was horny.