>interactive combination of visual and audio art >the means of interactivity are a creative expression
i don't really care but i don't get the pedantic morons who try to say theyre not
Where is the effort? there is none because they just do it to get a salary. There is no passion, no enthusiasm. You literally can't argue me back on this.
I don't have a problem with the first 10. A game can be artistic and not gameplay quality or innovative.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>A game can be artistic and not gameplay quality or innovative. >missing the point
If anyone is daring to claim a video game is a work of art is because of itself; by being interactive. A video game that it's bad because of the shitty interactivity is nowhere near to be acknowledged as such. If you move the goalpost is because it's incredibly creative and that list is almost full of deritative.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Quality games exist that have little or mediocre gameplay.
2 years ago
Anonymous
If a game has mediocre gameplay is not a quality game in any form.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Most shooters are mediocre; the gunplay is still RNG hipspread; recoil is laser-esque; ADS movement is slowed; character mobility is simple; it's still fun playing these games, so they're fulfilling a purpose. The game is quality.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>The game is quality.
No, just becaus you find it fun it doesn't make it good. fps are shit games for decades now.
2 years ago
Anonymous
You're not refuting that it's fulfilling its purpose as a mediocre and enjoyable game that, e.g., at least put OK features together. It's not a bad game, while being fun, so what is it?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>It's not a bad game, while being fun, so what is it?
A pitiful distortion of the concept fun.Move the goalpost to claim a video game fulfilled its purpose to entertain at that's about it.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>A pitiful distortion of the concept fun.
Strawman.
2 years ago
Anonymous
No.
2 years ago
Anonymous
It is; try arguing without making up negatives for this figurative video game.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Took you like an hour for a comeback and only came with a passive agressive card. Anon, don't bother deflecting and being reductionist appealing to subjectivity; videogames are a sum of its part not the oposite. You will always will wrong doing so.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I was playing a game.
Pokemon is a turn based series, and even though spatial games are some of the most skillful (increasing real skills), physiologically stimulating, and thus rewarding, Pokemon Red is a quality game.
2 years ago
Anonymous
This is sheer trolling. You don't fool me I know that game from start to finish.
Yes, but they're not high art yet because they don't get even close to fully exploit the potential of the media.
We're on the equivalent to cave painting, and there's some buttholes smearing shit on it because they think the paints need smell to be more precise.
To be less annoying, games are an interactive medium, and to fully exploit the art form, you need to fully exploit the interactivity.
You're not even close to a game where your actions actually influence the overall story on a level better than a choose your own adventure book.
The best we got so far is the sims of all things, but it's still painfully primitive, even by what you can actually attain with a pentium CPU.
how does simpsons have "choices that influence the story" lol >You're not even close to a game where your actions actually influence the overall story on a level better than a choose your own adventure book
there are games like that, they are just extremely difficult and expensive to make. The Last Express, LSD dream emulator, Dwarf Fortress (or any kind of creative sim or open world) or even friggin Undertale are good examples.
i am also not a fan of this notion that games need to 100% exploit interactivity.
film doesn't exploit motion 100% of the time, it uses literary and painting techniques and combines them. games are not just a medium of interactivity, they are a combination of interactivity and a dozen other things like writing, painting, music etc, and video games have excelled at combining those to provide a full experience
did you read any of my post you glowing homosexual
>Leonardo Da Vinci - Avg Value per artwork: 575 Million (6 works) >Pablo Picasso - Avg value per Artwork: 9.5 Million (13k works) >Michael Jackson - Avg value per Artwork: 6.66 Million (150 works) >Vincent Van Gogh - Avg value per Artwork: 5.0 Million (2k works)
Games will never be this valuable in the future
the video game industry is worth more than hollywood
Is the implication here that other art forms receive 'objective' criticism regularly? I feel like games criticism (which is woefully underdeveloped) only wrestles with this because games started off being reviewed as consumer products, forefronting value over other qualities.
Movies, art and music all receive objective reviews. If you're pretending professional critics don't exist for those mediums you're living under a rock. Videogames are the only medium that people use the argument "that's just your opinion, man"
>If you're pretending professional critics don't exist for those mediums you're living under a rock.
Yes, somehow I'm totally ignorant of every kind of criticism other than games criticism, I thought criticism was invented just for video games. Come on dude. I think we just have a different idea of what objective criticism is is all.
>Leonardo Da Vinci - Avg Value per artwork: 575 Million (6 works) >Pablo Picasso - Avg value per Artwork: 9.5 Million (13k works) >Michael Jackson - Avg value per Artwork: 6.66 Million (150 works) >Vincent Van Gogh - Avg value per Artwork: 5.0 Million (2k works)
Games will never be this valuable in the future
No they're not, and you're a homosexual if you think they are.
The individual elements of music, design and modelling could be considered art, depending on the definition you apply, but vidya is just interactivity dressed up with other experiences.
The arrangement of audiovisual experiences might be art, but holding forward so you can see them is practically identical to hitting play and letting them happen.
Cause and effect from pressing a button is not set.
you have no taste - being reductionist does not mean you have taste or can understand meaning
reconsider your objectively terrible opinion or gb2 somethingawful to hang out with troons that share your terrible opinion
There is nothing inherently artistic about interactivity.
Actually, I take that back: Baba is You is the only game I can think of that gets creative with its interactivity. If that's the standard, then there is at least one vidya I would consider art.
MGS2, for example, is not art, it's just an interesting story framed well.
The act of creation and molding something in your image or thought is art, though. If you make something else out of something then you’ve made art. Doesn’t matter if there aren’t an infinite amount of possibilities.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Is the act of creation art or the physical creation itself the art?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Both but i think you need consciousness to create art. This is why AI "art" isn't really art or it's only art insofar as there was a thinking mind (the programmer) that created a tool to facilitate an end.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>a sandwich is art
no.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Food being art isn't controversial at all. it's called the culinary arts
2 years ago
Anonymous
>it's called the culinary arts
I call it shit to be. which is quite similar to what subhumans try to sell lmao
2 years ago
Anonymous
Please speak english
2 years ago
Anonymous
>I
No one gives a shit about what a little homosexual like you thinks. It's a matter of fact.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Sit down, reddit. Nobody asked your input.
2 years ago
Anonymous
But anon! Its usually called an art in the sense that is a discipline that requires effort, much like it requures effort to make a painting or composing a song (most of the time), not because it has intrisecally artistic virtues.
All art requires some effort from the viewer to be enjoyed, with literature and architecture as the two closest examples to video games
2 years ago
Anonymous
>All art requires some effort from the viewer to be enjoyed >watch a drawning standing >effort
Do zoomers and artgays really?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Mental effort, yes
2 years ago
Anonymous
That's fancy wording for trying hard. If you have to straing yourself at appreciating any piece of art then the artist is not very good.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I'm not implying you're straining yourself to enjoy art, just that it's not automatic and requires an effort on the viewers part to "consume", so to speak
i feel like some games during the PS2 era were close enough to being art, but the trash that comes out today? hell no not even close to being shitty art
Iirc, because it was the OG serious film that told people that you could actually do serious things beyond comedy skits in movies.
Its basically an important film for the history of cinemtagraphy
Citizen Kane came out in 1941. There was serious movies way before that
But anon! Its usually called an art in the sense that is a discipline that requires effort, much like it requures effort to make a painting or composing a song (most of the time), not because it has intrisecally artistic virtues.
>intrisecally artistic virtues.
You can't use the word you're defining in the definition of the word
There is a lot more behind a videogame than just gameplay nowadays. And even designing the perfect gameplay mechanics could be an art on itself. Reality is gonna keep hitting harder the brainlets who think videogames impact will not grow even larger in the next years.
Games have the capacity to be the new and peak gesamkuntswerk medium, but the lack of any clear motivation on part of developers attempting to make toys and the early adopted and extreme monopolization has gimped it intensely
It's such a shame that video games are capable of so much artistically and the examples they use to prove this point are these bland "cinematic" games.
This will just make video games look even more immature in the eyes of scholars because it shows lack of confidence and more of just yearning for approval. >look guyz! we're making video games that feel like HBO shows!
It really is sad that video games can make you feel so many things though even accidental side effects of interactivity, but your avageage game maker and consumer doesn't even bother thinking that way. Like the old Resident Evils with the clunky tank controls weren't necessarily designed that way to enhance the horror aspects, but it worked out well especially in retrospect. Or like the way old games tended to have more easter eggs and funny things happen just because the developer understood that a player would try to do something and be amused when it was actually possible.
Not those ones.
Games are art because they're creativity productions.
>Games a moron makes on sub par salary because he literally can't get a better job instead of starving are "art"
no.
Not a refutation.
concession accepted
Liar.
Explain how can homosexuals that put no emotion or any kind of investment in making these games are able to produce a master piece
You're appealing to extremes ("a master piece").
>interactive combination of visual and audio art
>the means of interactivity are a creative expression
i don't really care but i don't get the pedantic morons who try to say theyre not
Where is the effort? there is none because they just do it to get a salary. There is no passion, no enthusiasm. You literally can't argue me back on this.
Michaelangelo was commissioned to paint the Sistine Chapel. Being paid to do a creative endeavor doesn't always take away from the fact you did it.
>Doesn't always
Well then we can compromise that mass effect will never be a work of art, neither will be skyrim.
Whatever makes you feel better lol
go frick yourself todd
All art is made by starving artists.
also
>because he literally can't get a better job
Therre are a million jobs easier to get than game design
So I guess James Naismith is a famous artist because he created the game basketball
Basketball isn't considered a medium; video games are and have literature, art, and gameplay.
>implying creativity wasn't thrown out of the window in the middle of gen 7
ngmi
https://www.imdb.com/list/ls090715768/.
>9 fricking good games out of 45
I don't have a problem with the first 10. A game can be artistic and not gameplay quality or innovative.
>A game can be artistic and not gameplay quality or innovative.
>missing the point
If anyone is daring to claim a video game is a work of art is because of itself; by being interactive. A video game that it's bad because of the shitty interactivity is nowhere near to be acknowledged as such. If you move the goalpost is because it's incredibly creative and that list is almost full of deritative.
Quality games exist that have little or mediocre gameplay.
If a game has mediocre gameplay is not a quality game in any form.
Most shooters are mediocre; the gunplay is still RNG hipspread; recoil is laser-esque; ADS movement is slowed; character mobility is simple; it's still fun playing these games, so they're fulfilling a purpose. The game is quality.
>The game is quality.
No, just becaus you find it fun it doesn't make it good. fps are shit games for decades now.
You're not refuting that it's fulfilling its purpose as a mediocre and enjoyable game that, e.g., at least put OK features together. It's not a bad game, while being fun, so what is it?
>It's not a bad game, while being fun, so what is it?
A pitiful distortion of the concept fun.Move the goalpost to claim a video game fulfilled its purpose to entertain at that's about it.
>A pitiful distortion of the concept fun.
Strawman.
No.
It is; try arguing without making up negatives for this figurative video game.
Took you like an hour for a comeback and only came with a passive agressive card. Anon, don't bother deflecting and being reductionist appealing to subjectivity; videogames are a sum of its part not the oposite. You will always will wrong doing so.
I was playing a game.
Pokemon is a turn based series, and even though spatial games are some of the most skillful (increasing real skills), physiologically stimulating, and thus rewarding, Pokemon Red is a quality game.
This is sheer trolling. You don't fool me I know that game from start to finish.
/thread
well maybe they're the equivalent of modern art lol
No they are not, homosexual
No
Yes, but they're not high art yet because they don't get even close to fully exploit the potential of the media.
We're on the equivalent to cave painting, and there's some buttholes smearing shit on it because they think the paints need smell to be more precise.
youre talking out of your ass, in what ways have games not exploited the potential of the medium?
Boot up tlou2 and ask ellie that
Literature and gameplay are usually low end (1-5/10); graphics are OK.
To be less annoying, games are an interactive medium, and to fully exploit the art form, you need to fully exploit the interactivity.
You're not even close to a game where your actions actually influence the overall story on a level better than a choose your own adventure book.
The best we got so far is the sims of all things, but it's still painfully primitive, even by what you can actually attain with a pentium CPU.
Which choose your own adventure books are high art?
how does simpsons have "choices that influence the story" lol
>You're not even close to a game where your actions actually influence the overall story on a level better than a choose your own adventure book
there are games like that, they are just extremely difficult and expensive to make. The Last Express, LSD dream emulator, Dwarf Fortress (or any kind of creative sim or open world) or even friggin Undertale are good examples.
i am also not a fan of this notion that games need to 100% exploit interactivity.
film doesn't exploit motion 100% of the time, it uses literary and painting techniques and combines them. games are not just a medium of interactivity, they are a combination of interactivity and a dozen other things like writing, painting, music etc, and video games have excelled at combining those to provide a full experience
*sims
So just give up and keep up on the cave painting era, burning humongous amount of money and brain time on graphics instead, got it
did you read any of my post you glowing homosexual
the video game industry is worth more than hollywood
some are like The Last Guardian and Death Stranding
Games as a whole?
No, lol
SOME games?
Sure!
pic not related, cringe reddit humour
I used to cut the covers off my old PC game boxes and hang them on my bedroom walls.
Shit was pretty cash.
Nobody cares about art now that it's all AI generated
name 1 video game that explores the human condition with the same level of depth seen in a Tolstoy novel
Dead Rising
If games are art why do people dismiss objective criticism as an opinion? Do people think objectivity doesn't exist in a creative medium?
Is the implication here that other art forms receive 'objective' criticism regularly? I feel like games criticism (which is woefully underdeveloped) only wrestles with this because games started off being reviewed as consumer products, forefronting value over other qualities.
Movies, art and music all receive objective reviews. If you're pretending professional critics don't exist for those mediums you're living under a rock. Videogames are the only medium that people use the argument "that's just your opinion, man"
>If you're pretending professional critics don't exist for those mediums you're living under a rock.
Yes, somehow I'm totally ignorant of every kind of criticism other than games criticism, I thought criticism was invented just for video games. Come on dude. I think we just have a different idea of what objective criticism is is all.
>moving the goalpost
Stop being pendantic. Objective and professional are two different things you moron.
I never implied they were the same thing. You're either a bot, someone who doesn't read or write English regularly, or you're slow.
Woh did someone find the rumored "troony wall" where all the troony games go?
>Leonardo Da Vinci - Avg Value per artwork: 575 Million (6 works)
>Pablo Picasso - Avg value per Artwork: 9.5 Million (13k works)
>Michael Jackson - Avg value per Artwork: 6.66 Million (150 works)
>Vincent Van Gogh - Avg value per Artwork: 5.0 Million (2k works)
Games will never be this valuable in the future
art sucks wiener in hell, artists are morons.
video games are based.
therefore games arent art unless they are lgbtq early access indie trash
No they're not, and you're a homosexual if you think they are.
The individual elements of music, design and modelling could be considered art, depending on the definition you apply, but vidya is just interactivity dressed up with other experiences.
The arrangement of audiovisual experiences might be art, but holding forward so you can see them is practically identical to hitting play and letting them happen.
Cause and effect from pressing a button is not set.
Yes
you have no taste - being reductionist does not mean you have taste or can understand meaning
reconsider your objectively terrible opinion or gb2 somethingawful to hang out with troons that share your terrible opinion
There is nothing inherently artistic about interactivity.
Actually, I take that back: Baba is You is the only game I can think of that gets creative with its interactivity. If that's the standard, then there is at least one vidya I would consider art.
MGS2, for example, is not art, it's just an interesting story framed well.
>There is nothing inherently artistic about interactivity
Correct.
>you need to mechanically put a brush to canvas in order to create a painting, this is itself art
No.
The act of creation and molding something in your image or thought is art, though. If you make something else out of something then you’ve made art. Doesn’t matter if there aren’t an infinite amount of possibilities.
Is the act of creation art or the physical creation itself the art?
Both but i think you need consciousness to create art. This is why AI "art" isn't really art or it's only art insofar as there was a thinking mind (the programmer) that created a tool to facilitate an end.
>a sandwich is art
no.
Food being art isn't controversial at all. it's called the culinary arts
>it's called the culinary arts
I call it shit to be. which is quite similar to what subhumans try to sell lmao
Please speak english
>I
No one gives a shit about what a little homosexual like you thinks. It's a matter of fact.
Sit down, reddit. Nobody asked your input.
But anon! Its usually called an art in the sense that is a discipline that requires effort, much like it requures effort to make a painting or composing a song (most of the time), not because it has intrisecally artistic virtues.
Every Ganker post is art then.
All art requires some effort from the viewer to be enjoyed, with literature and architecture as the two closest examples to video games
>All art requires some effort from the viewer to be enjoyed
>watch a drawning standing
>effort
Do zoomers and artgays really?
Mental effort, yes
That's fancy wording for trying hard. If you have to straing yourself at appreciating any piece of art then the artist is not very good.
I'm not implying you're straining yourself to enjoy art, just that it's not automatic and requires an effort on the viewers part to "consume", so to speak
>"games" are art
Games are software, homosexual.
Sculptures are rocks homosexual.
Correct.
>pic not related
Imagine talking about art on a videogame board that doesn't even know about videogames
i feel like some games during the PS2 era were close enough to being art, but the trash that comes out today? hell no not even close to being shitty art
>digital toy are le art
>buy book full of video game pictures
>literally called ART book
Explain this Egbertgays
Make way for REAL art, uncultured swines
Those games are both beautiful works of art. Any definition of “art” that doesn’t include them is a definition that isn’t useful for me.
>In a medium where everything is John Wick, tlou part 2 is Schindler's List
>Cuckmann: Like Schindler's List... but with zombies!
GTA IV is kino though
why pseudo-intellectuals suck citizen kane's dick so much?
Iirc, because it was the OG serious film that told people that you could actually do serious things beyond comedy skits in movies.
Its basically an important film for the history of cinemtagraphy
was metal gear solid the citizen kane of video games?
Citizen Kane came out in 1941. There was serious movies way before that
>intrisecally artistic virtues.
You can't use the word you're defining in the definition of the word
Games are toys.
sure, but it takes craft to make a good toy
There is a lot more behind a videogame than just gameplay nowadays. And even designing the perfect gameplay mechanics could be an art on itself. Reality is gonna keep hitting harder the brainlets who think videogames impact will not grow even larger in the next years.
Games have the capacity to be the new and peak gesamkuntswerk medium, but the lack of any clear motivation on part of developers attempting to make toys and the early adopted and extreme monopolization has gimped it intensely
Remove TLou2 and that's a fine image.
Everything is art
What makes games so special
Objectively, yeah. But art can be shit.
It's such a shame that video games are capable of so much artistically and the examples they use to prove this point are these bland "cinematic" games.
This will just make video games look even more immature in the eyes of scholars because it shows lack of confidence and more of just yearning for approval.
>look guyz! we're making video games that feel like HBO shows!
It really is sad that video games can make you feel so many things though even accidental side effects of interactivity, but your avageage game maker and consumer doesn't even bother thinking that way. Like the old Resident Evils with the clunky tank controls weren't necessarily designed that way to enhance the horror aspects, but it worked out well especially in retrospect. Or like the way old games tended to have more easter eggs and funny things happen just because the developer understood that a player would try to do something and be amused when it was actually possible.
writing code is art
>Movie games
>Art
You might as well be watching a real movie instead of playing one.