He was right about Classic.

>but these other things
Stay on topic, homosexual.

Nobody raidlogged in actual vanilla holy shit lmaoooo
You zoomer Black folk are actually fricking moronic

Not really, much of it is game design
Vanilla is full of gdkps because it's easy to carry half a raid group.
In retail, SOME of the top guilds can manage to carry 1 or 2 players through the content, most CE guilds won't be able to carry 1 and most mythic guilds aren't even CE. Meanwhile Keystone carries are way more common because Keystone are much easier and you don't even need to time it for loot
Metagaming it's a product of how easy it is to meta game. In classic because everything was set in stone players knew from day 1 what would be overpowered and all they had to do was pick the right class at character creation. In retail it's so easy to reroll and catchup that people hop around when things change. If it takes 2 weeks to gear up chasing the meta is easy, if it took 4 months people would be much more hesitant

>Season
I don't want fricking temporary seasons, I want OSRS for WoW

I played then, and no, nobody was a clicker by the time they hit level 60

your log data just says 16k cleared it, it doesn't say 16k out of what. percents are important in math, dude

does the 21,000 include the non 15/15? what a weird fricking screenshot you used. You could've picked something better

I mean, do you have any other stats to back up what you're saying? I'm not sure how warcraft logs works and if it includes every single guilds attempts. I also like how you ignored the m'uru pre-nerf 2% clear rate

All because you want to believe wow classic is super easy. maybe cause you assumed like most people before classic launched that vanilla was a really hard game and when we played on the super nerfed 1.12 version you didn't want to admit you were wrong so you pretended that "wow was always easy" and now you'll deny anything you don't like to avoid admitting you're wrong

so you're argument is that I'm bad? basically what a 1st grader does when they're trying to argue?
>Because your muru clear rate is just as made up
Google "m'uru 2% clear rate"

again, like a 1st grader. M'uru had 2% clear rate despite being a rerelease. He's not an overtuned Mythic boss with a million mechanics to learn

he was when sunwell launched. warcraft logs might be including the post-nerf version that made the fight super easy

week 1 was 2% clear rate. M'uru is not an easy fight by any stretch of the imagination. I have no idea why you so desperately want to believe classic is an easy game but whatever

But those shitters are still below the good players not spending money, aren't they?
Seems like you can't p2w

Gdkp does not exist in retail, no.
You must be confusing retail with classic
The amount of gold you use is much less than the amount of gold the game gives you

Gdkp does not exist in retail, you're imagining things to justify your asshurt
None of the top runs are bought, paypigs can never reach the top

Post proof of a retail gdkp

This is pretty embarassing classic sisters, we can do better than this!
Let's regroup!

I already countered you
Top players don't buy gold because the game hands it to you
Gdkp doesn't exist on retail and you've failed to provide any proof of it
You can't buy your way to the top

You do not need to buy gold to afford consumables, they're dirt cheap.
You do not need to buy gold for your gear, your gear comes from m+ and crafted gear costs a few thousand to make and you get tens of thousands of gold per character every week without even trying to earn it
You do not know how the game works
>GDKP does exist in retail
Then prove it
Show me one dragonflight gdkp
>People are paying for complete mythics
A mythic means nothing, these are low rated runs and therefore irrelevant. The paypigs are far behind real players

There's an entire (default, added by the devs themselves) chat channel only for boosting

GDKP are not a thing on retail due to personal loot.

It's right there in the screenshot. Players are completing content they aren't good enough to clear by using gold.
Literally pay2win and I accept your concession.

Players are completing content they aren't good enough to clear by using gold. I have proven this and you have no counter-argument.
Literally pay2win and I accept your concession.

if you can farm gold with braindead grind, buy a run and get what you want (mounts, gear, achievements or titles) it's p2w

idk, is WC3 p2w?

you said "game", you dimwit
>But it is about farming gold then spending it to win, so by your definition it is.
ok, do you have a way to buy gold in game with real money to build a town hall or an arcane sactum?

moving the goal post? i'm just asking things in order
everyone, even the most moronic wowdrone knows that p2w involves real money
you just got slapped with a hand that was traveling at a snail pace

Clearing easymode raids is not winning

moving the goal post? i'm just asking things in order
everyone, even the most moronic wowdrone knows that p2w involves real money
you just got slapped with a hand that was traveling at a snail pace

Yes that is moving the goalpost. You said grinding gold and spending it is enough to constitue p2w. Right

if you can farm gold with braindead grind, buy a run and get what you want (mounts, gear, achievements or titles) it's p2w

No mention of real money, just claiming that being able to farm gold then use it is p2w.

Every MMO has trading, and many arpgs

It is moving goal posts
These posts

>You said grinding gold and spending it is enough to constitue p2w.
correct, when the game facilitates the exchange
guess what, wow token is not only the way blizz facilitates RMT, but also gets a cut for doing nothing.
financially smart? yeah. ethically correct? not really. pay to win? absolutely

if you can farm gold with braindead grind, buy a run and get what you want (mounts, gear, achievements or titles) it's p2w

Establish that farming gold and being able to trade it is enough to qualify as p2w. That's a nonsensical standard because it would make every mmo p2w
You will never have someone show up to raid with a bunch of upgrades because they spent real money, because there aren't upgrades to get that way. Heroic raid loot is useless, mythic keystones are trivial for any real player and crafting gear is throttled by sparks. You cannot win by spending money, the only thing that would even be faster than doing it yourself is level boosting which is beyond irrelevant in WoW
Wow is entirely skill gated

No,

if you can farm gold with braindead grind, buy a run and get what you want (mounts, gear, achievements or titles) it's p2w

EXPLICITLY calls out farming/grinding gold as enough. These are the goal posts you keep trying to move because you got blown out.

Nothing in that post said rmt, it explicitly says grinding gold. You refuse to address that because you know I'm right
You lost

>Didn't say
Strawman.
You EXPLICITLY called out grinding for gold. This is not nebulous or implied, it was clearly stated that farming gold and then spending it is rmt

they used to bother banning people who bought gold not encouraged it. old blizz knew RMT makes the game worse and had artistic integrity. nu-blizz is soulless and doesn't wanna fork over a comparatively tiny amount of money to improve their game experience

you're never going to completely get rid of gold buying, it's always gonna be a thing but in the early days of wow they did a decent job of cracking down on it, especially compared to now

here
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/banned-for-rmt/1667633
https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/xrdhd3/do_people_actually_get_banned_for_rmt/

you can just google search "world of warcraft rmt baneable" and see for yourself

https://unbanster.com/wow-ban/#Banned_for_Buying_Gold_in_WoW

Abuse of the economy bans in WoW usually pertain to gold buying or selling, for real-world money.

While back in the day, most of it was obtained through gold farming, nowadays boosting and carrying are the biggest gold makers on retail. And, for Classic WoW, that’s mostly GDKP runs.

Thus, for abuse of the economy, you can expect the following:

temporary suspension for up to 30 days;
removal of all gold involved;
permanent ban.

>sarcastic
yeah, i know, but our friend doesn't like actual links proving him wrong

>2013
https://www.ownedcore.com/forums/world-of-warcraft/world-of-warcraft-general/298118-wow-gold-buying-without-being-banned-possible.html
>WoW gold buying, without being banned. - possible?
>There is no such thing as buying wow gold with 100% safety, however, you can get away with it without being banned, but that's just luck Blizzard can track the gold, so if it goes like farmer - mule - you, they can still see who got it in the end.

Right in that post it says that Blizzard started cracking down AFTER the token, confirming there was not this past world of integrity where they stopped rmt

yeah, cause in the above text says that blizz had no way to tell if you were RMTing or not. hence the "just luck" portion. The implementation of the token was never with the playerbase in mind. they saw potential financial gaining from it and chased it.

>wow token gets implemented in 2015-03-24
>the 2008 ToS explicitly says that RMT is not tolerated

are you stupid? just because they had no way to tell that you were RMTing, doesn't mean that you won't get banned cause you flexed your RMT on trade channel, you mongoloid

>Means it wasn't enforced
people got banned. it was enforced
>Thus, for abuse of the economy, you can expect the following:
>temporary suspension for up to 30 days;
>removal of all gold involved;
>permanent ban.

oh shit, then since I botted throughout wod and didn't get caught means that botting wasn't against the ToS then, pheww...

>esl
is that the best you can do? proven wrong multiple times you resort to esl calling? lmao, wowdrones are something else

what about
https://www.bluetracker.gg/wow/topic/us-en/25026455499-can-i-be-banned-for-trading-gold-with-myself/

or a guy saying that got caught?
https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/bbfk7/i_admit_it_i_bought_gold_and_was_caught_is_there/
>Is there any chance I could get my account back?
idk, he sound banned

in the first post someone is asking if he can be banned for trading gold to himself, clearly implying that there's a similar rule in the ToS I already linked
the second post is a guy admitting he got banned for gold buying. of course you'd call him a liar cause it goes against your narrative
people don't go around the internet claiming they've done something wrong like breaking the ToS. I wanna believe most wowplayers have enough braincells to shut up and quietly eat the ban cause they know they did wrong.
this also made me realize that unless I find a vid of a wowdev outright saying that RMT is a bannable offense, you'll say it's all fake. And even then, you'll probably say it's a deepfake

wow is p2w. delude yourself all you want

>He's a liar because he dodged the single post asking for proof
gee idk, he maybe made a throwaway account and really didn't want to get his char name blacklisted?
think moron, think
>How do you STILL not understand the discussion is whether blizzard was actually stopping rmt before, not whether they wrote it was against the rules
they were, i have no doubts
https://zygorguides.com/forum/forum/general/off-topic-aa/4352-i-was-banned-from-wow-today
people who are willing to admit it on the internet are the one who got their account stolen and used for RMT and those who ask "you guys think i might get my account back?"
Is your skin black as night?
let's go lower, think of me as a pajeet.
A pajeet is tearing you a new one.
I've found multiple sources saying that RMT is bannable, people are getting banned and ways to circumvent being banned.
You have nothing.

they still do, you just have to give blizzard a cut through the token and it's all good

>>from 2023
https://www.ownedcore.com/forums/world-of-warcraft/world-of-warcraft-guides/458074-avoid-getting-banned-botting-buying-selling-gold.html
here's a guide to "Avoid getting banned for botting and buying or selling gold!" from 2014

from a 2009 document
>World of Warcraft does not in any way tolerate RMT.
https://gamestudies.org/0902/articles/ruch#_edn1

"Blizzard does not recognize any virtual property transfers executed outside of the Game or the purported sale, gift or trade in the "real world" of anything related to the Game. Accordingly, you may not sell items for "real" money or otherwise exchange items for value outside of the Game. (Blizzard Entertainment, 2008)"
>Article 8 from the TOU

>still no retort
EZ

Tbc made ALMOST every spec worth bringing. Stop being a moron about semantics. Boomkins, Spriests, Non-healing shammies, whatever. They were all worth bringing for the buffs they brought

I'd rather have TBCs classes than retails. The rotations might be more fun but they're all significantly more homogenized.

Hybrid DPS like that aren't supposed to top the meters (except warrior) and in retail EVERY class has that utility (homogenization) or they removed what made the classes unique. The rotations might be more engaging but when every class has similar buffs and utility, then what's the point in having classes?
>I'm sure you would, low skill players love not having to be good at the game to perform well. You might lick windows and drool on your keyboard but hey you can put down your totems so thats good enough. Good players dont think like this btw
Did you Clear Naxx 40 and Sunwell pre-nerf? No? Then stfu

Naxx 40 in vnailla had no where near 70% clear rate nor did Sunwell.
Not even that guy
Gratz on your whatever.

The only comparable part is wrangling 20 more mouth breathers together to do it.
Other than that there is nothing about Classic that is difficult
Though i would be the clear rates would be much higher had they the toold and blizzard attentiveness to bug fixses they have today.

>but Naxx 40 isn't brainlessly easy either.
lol
see

>why don't you try actually answering it instead of being a homosexual?
There was nothing to answer, you just randomly defended warrior being overpowered
>If an enhance shaman buffs their group with windfury, totems, bloodlust, spot decurse AND they do as much DPS as a rogue, why brings rogues?
If a Boomkin brings MOTW, Crit aura, brez and they do as much DPS as a mage, why bring mages?
Wow if only classes had things like varying damage profiles, non throughput utility or skillcap that would make you want to bring the good player on a mage instead of windowlicker on a shaman
Strange how it works on retail where every spec is still clearing the hardest content, huh?
>Naxx had a 7% clear rate
LMFAO
No it did not you dumb frick Black person. Here are the logs for Naxx 40, of the guilds that started the raid (~21,000) there were ~16000 that full cleared
Its actually a 76% clear rate
Youre so fricking delusional you actually thought you were some above average player for clearing naxx lmfao

Anything cleared by 75% of players, specifically 75% of classic players which are already the dadgamer trash that cant handle retail, is brainlessly easy.
>Part of the difficulty
There is no difficulty.

all you're basically saying is "nuh uh, it's really easy" like a 1st grader

Naxx had a high clear rate because it's piss easy
The reason it wasn't progression content is because it was piss easy
Mythic raid is already solved on retail, but for some reason it hasn't been cleared by 75% of players. Almost like execution actually matters in hard content huh?

Retail is better, in every way

Except strats have already been found for every other raid in WoW and they don't instantly fall over to dad gamer morons like classic raids do
Solving the fight does not make it trivial, classic fights were trivial to begin with because the game was badly designed.
Retail wins in every single regard, and you have to actively lie to try to justify classic and your inability to keep up with the higher skillcap of retail

No, they actually can't. The average player is not coming anywhere close to 95% parses in mythic, in fact I don't think you even know how parses work
If you were so good (you arent) you would be an esports pro

Yeah but I'm sure you're super good at the game but just hate free money lmao

>why don't you try actually answering it instead of being a homosexual?
There was nothing to answer, you just randomly defended warrior being overpowered
>If an enhance shaman buffs their group with windfury, totems, bloodlust, spot decurse AND they do as much DPS as a rogue, why brings rogues?
If a Boomkin brings MOTW, Crit aura, brez and they do as much DPS as a mage, why bring mages?
Wow if only classes had things like varying damage profiles, non throughput utility or skillcap that would make you want to bring the good player on a mage instead of windowlicker on a shaman
Strange how it works on retail where every spec is still clearing the hardest content, huh?
>Naxx had a 7% clear rate
LMFAO
No it did not you dumb frick Black person. Here are the logs for Naxx 40, of the guilds that started the raid (~21,000) there were ~16000 that full cleared
Its actually a 76% clear rate
Youre so fricking delusional you actually thought you were some above average player for clearing naxx lmfao

what makes rpgs satisfying is having a well defined role and doing it well, retail sort of has this but it feels like you’re in a group with 20 druids that can all do everything

>difficulty is an important aspect to that
Classic clearly shows that people do not actually care about how difficult things are as long as number goes up
On top of that the number of people that do truly difficult content is so low but they are also probably the most loyal blizzard payers at this point.
Outside the multibox token farmers.

>Or maybe it shows that it's still a fun game despite using the nerfed difficulty of all the content in 1.12?
If it was fun people would not have been paying for boosts and buying gold to get items so they could raid log just as quickly.
Sure its fun if your once a week event is trying to get gold or pink numbers on a website that tracks that stuff.

poopsock raiding sucks, i’d rather do easier raids with people i like but retail totally forsaked casual raiding to sell tokens for gold carries

it isn't just the aoe. It's stuff like feral and ret paladin topping the meters when hybrids aren't really supposed to

>There are more mechanics going on in a single pull of m+ than all of Blackwing lair.
People who think this is a good thing are the reason WoW has gone to shit.
moronic homosexual Ion designing the game around 1% of the players propped up by people who seek validation through WoW raiding

Oh how I wonder why the game has less than 1/10th of it's peak playerbase

I'm much better at the game than PvE morons.
If you never got over 2400 in Arena you're trash

>This is it, the average moron defending classic doesnt even know what pugging is. lmfao
Oh no! Anon doesn't know the meaning of a single word. It's completely over. How can anyone recover after this or even mention that they played the game?!
Frick off moron

Id like to believe its a bot, but I'm sure a bot can at least look up some of the most common slang in the game
These literal morons genuinely exist, its crazy isnt it?

No its definitely the best class design the game ever had. Balance is meaningless.

Nope, shallow and mindless
You might not understand if you're south American like most classic players, but having actual skillcap is important and classic fails entirely in that regard

i'm not saying they financially do, but check the latest blizzcon, most announcements are nostalgia based. ofc they can't abandon retail, that'd be dumb. but, pr wise, they are putting more eggs in the classic basket

>Retail got 3 expansions announced
>War Within
>????
>and ????
>none of them will have a x.3 patch

I see you fell for the meme. Back in the Cata days, each one of those would be called a Major Content Patch, rather than a expansion. This is why they aren't doing more than 2 major patches per "expasion" now.
They realized players will always hate "current expansion", and the hope for the "next expansion" will keep them subbed.
I'm so sorry bro. There's nothing to be excited anymore

Cata had one patch with a minor subzone in Molten Front
4.1 had no new zones, rehashed dungeons and no new raid
4.2 had no new dungeons
4.3 had no new zones and rehashed most of its raid
So tell me how multiple new zones, dungeons and raids would be just a content patch in Cata?

Except Midnight and Last Titan will both have multiple new zones, dungeons and raids
Unlike those patches, none of which offered all 3 and most didn't even offer 2/3

Soon they won't even have x.2 patches once they realize they can just shit out expansions and have all the chinese bot farms buy 3 million copies of their $60 patches