I'm just gonna say it, Vanilla WoW is almost perfect. The only issues are:
>Racials
>The Ranking System
>Loot is almost perfect but it could be tweaked but idk how
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I'm just gonna say it, Vanilla WoW is almost perfect. The only issues are:. >Racials. >The Ranking System
TBC did it better
Frick off. TBC introduced all the worst things in current MMOs and the class balance was even worse
>Druids
>Popular in Vanilla
lmao @urlife
>t.brownie
>the class balance was even worse
lmao come on, stop lying
That being said, I absolutely despise flying mounts and what they have done to MMOs.
running around isn't gameplay.
As a Paladin enjoyer I have to agree
>because the game was set to the final patch, right out the gate Prot Paladins could do everything
>prot was the go to heroic tanks, aoe raid tanks, raid main tanks after p1 (I mt'd everything from phase 2 onward)
>holy was still good but i never touched it
>ret with seal twisting could top the meters
I think classic+ with TBC talents would rule. I'd play it for sure. I'd even just settle for a rehash of classic TBC. Frick doing vanilla again though
im not sure what expansion you were playing where ret was topping the meters, but its definitely not TBC. TBC only brought a single ret paladin to their raids
vanilla wow has the same issue as every other MMORPG. the game isn't about playing, its about farming gold and paying people to play for you.
Oh yeah reagents too
you literally aren't allowed to raid or pvp in wow unless you're boosting. people will say i'm wrong, but these people have never been to nax, and they've played less than 20 arena matches this season, most likely they haven't even played one.
I'm not sure what you mean also I never went to naxx in 1.12
you should check out trade chat on any popular server. its just people selling services like m+ carries or GDKPs. its funny because most people are skilled enough to do this stuff, they just aren't allowed to play unless they're paying.
Are you talking about on retail or 1.12?
No she doesn't that's my character and she only fricks Draenei and Night Elves
both, all MMO's of today are offering boosting services en mass. for the regular joe, their option is to pay real money, or farm in game currency if they want to do anything resembling end game content. i predict solo queue will be much more popular in the coming years, as its the only way to prevent this sort of monopoly on content. its also just way easier. even pro gamers like swifty complain about trying to find teammates and prefer to queue solo in unranked.
Didn't know you were allowed to talk about boosting in non retail
they call them GDKPs in classic. its a boosting service.
>dark skin
>white hair
>human female
ahh, a man of TASTE
if you tank or heal you can do whatever the frick you want.
this is a modern gaming phenomenon and not a fault of the game design
Blizzard should just start banning enough that it goes back to being a small underground scene instead of being the main way to the play the game
To tell the complete truth, it's the quality of the players that has gone down dramatically.
Nobody is looking to have fun or play a game, people just treat the game like some kind of "Do or Die" endeavor and that's why Classic got destroyed by these 3rd world loonies.
The main cause of this is that people aren't allowed to shame and bully each other anymore. In 2004 when WoW released, if one of your friends caught you paying people to cheat your way to better gear or to level faster they'd never let you hear the end of it, some guild masters might even kick you from your guild (seen this happen myself), now it's not even considered cheating.
MMOs will never heal unless people claim back some sense of integrity and are allowed to bully and harass each other into being better people.
It's zoomers and, as you say, thirdies. China cheats at everything, the goal of a game to them is not to have fun, but to win. Therefore they remove all parts of the game and focus only on winning, despite an MMO not being a binary win/lose game.
the game has become very transactional. there are still some people out there who want to make friends but it feels like a lot of people mega autistic and only care to further their own interest.
>horrible graphics, it looks like an N64 game
>pvp is actual shit
>quests are a dead game mechanic that nobody really enjoys, but level 60 accounts cost like $500
its still the best mmo on the market sadly. at least its not a movie pretending to be a game like these other mmos (BDO, FFXIV)
>movie pretending to be a game like these other mmos
>BDO
what
BDO is literally just mob grinding from level 1 to finish
i played for 2 hours and they had me sneaking through a poorly programmed stealth level, talking to an endless amount of npcs and riding a horse. that was it, there was no game. not interested.
The girl on OP's pic fricks orcs btw
Vanilla WoW is shit, because it got balanced by butthurt raiders from another MMO who heavily favored their classes, and were very aggressive in making the classes they hated bad. There's a reason warriors are gods. That homosexual Tigole wanted his main class good, and hated all hybrids, so made sure they all turned out shit, despite the fact paladins and druids are one of, if not the most, popular class in Warcraft. Imagine if WotLK was released with DKs being meme tier like vanilla PvE druids/paladins. That's what would have happened had DKs been a vanilla class, because can't have Tigole's favorite classes be overshadowed by hybrids. Otherwise, yeah, vanilla is perfect. Racials are fine, people barely play Horde as is, let the homosexuals have their PvP racials. We need some one to play the mudhut no shoe Black person monsters.
why don't you just play warrior? its because you ENJOY PLAYING THE SHIT CLASS, you think it gives you street cred or something.
Not him, but warriors are fricking boring as shit to level and rely HEAVILY on items. I always played Druid because I liked having the choice of being Tank/DPS/Healer all in one class and being good/decent at all 3 roles. TBC was when Druids and Paladins were just the best.
i'm assuming he liked mages then because nothing is as fun as playing a vanilla mage
>inb4 muh frostbolt spam
>perfect
Nothings perfect.
And WoW ripped off another MMO.
EQhomie you on Oakwynd dawg?
redpill me on classic.
are their individual vanilla, TBC, and WOTLK servers?
theres a vanilla server, a wotlk server, and dragonflight. there wont be a new fresh server anytime soon, so if you're interested in playing just play on the most active server. lots of people around, but not in an annoying way. take your time, endgame is just farming gold and paying people to give you loot. thats your only option.
Wotlk is a joke, TBC servers do not exist (not Blizzard's at least), Vanilla has issues but a surprisingly good population. That said, Hardcore servers are coming out (death is permanent but when you die you can transfer your dead character to a "regular" Vanilla server and resurrect there)
vanillagays are coping because at the time they were teens with hopes and dreams and possible futures. its always been a shit game.
the problem is with the mentality of the players.
it's no longer an adventure, it's an xp-grind to level cap then pre-bis then bis then parselogging.
>Racials
in pve it's non-issue if you aren't queer. rolling a human rogue for sword spec when you wanted to roll a nelf is b***hboy behaviour. Rolling a dwarf priest when you really wanted to shadowmeld-mind control people off bridges is the same.
pvp racials are all over the place, but I prefer the flavor to not having them at all
>The Ranking System
yeah no argument here.
>Loot is almost perfect but it could be tweaked but idk how
i always though it was fine.
also your character looks like she fricks ogre mages
>Vanilla WoW is almost perfect
>but
It's either perfect or it's not. Once you start changing shit you don't stop and then it's no longer vanilla.
>pops wotf and free kills your priest/warlock
yeah the racials are fine
>resists your kidney shot
not broken, just flavor
The game isn't and never should be balanced for 1v1. The bigger difference comes from paladin and shaman, and they're actually a pretty dynamic balance where you xan't really say one is definitely better than the other except pve where paladin blessings are broken
Correct opinion.
(Also world buffs a bit too powerful)
>racials
wotf, stoneskin and orc stun resistance need little nerfs but other than that whats the issue
that pancake ass
>Racials
what's the problem here? They make the races unique.
>The Ranking System
ok that is a valid point, but that got fixed or is getting fixed
>Loot is almost perfect but it could be tweaked but idk how
I think classic loot is perfect.
>Racials
>what's the problem here? They make the races unique.
Eh, the problem is really the Human/Orc Sword/Mace/Axe +skill level bonus racial. +weapon skill is an unbelievably broken good stat in classic and very rare on gear, particularly in the earlier patches. To the point where you have to gear non-human/orcs differently (or pay exorbitant prices for edgemasters, essentially throwing away your glove slot) to make sure you hit weapon skill soft cap so you do full damage to Boss level enemies. without it you're performing only like 90-95% of the DPS on the same fight.
+Weapon skill and Dwarf Priest Fear Ward are basically the only racials in the game with raiding appliance. They're objectively the best racials for their use, and there isn't really an argument. For PvP it's more nuanced, because there's different team comps and different use cases and basically every racial has their uses. Some are more versatile and powerful than others, but they can all be useful when used correctly and there's way more variables in PvP encounters. That's why the PvE differences are more glaring.
I think every race should have access to some +weapon skill racial to give a flavorful distinction between warriors and rogues of different races, or they should be removed/severely nerfed. I think it would be cool if Gnome Rogues were more incentivized to go dagger spec, and Human Rogues to go sword for example. It's not going to be perfectly balanced, because in different tiers some weapon classes don't have equivalent weapons, but I think you wouldn't feel too bad for rolling a NElf warrior if you'd get axe spec or Tauren Warrior if you got maces for example.
Racial Priest skills should also be modified so that the Priests of other races can do quests in the other race's capitals that enable them to learn their racial Priest skills. Maybe those quests are only obtainable at max level and/or when you have reached a certain threshold in that race's reputation. It's a fun distinction that different races have different faiths, and thus different Priest skills, but for Alliance especially it often feels like you're pigeonholed into being a Dwarf
>vanilla wow
>posts hellfire peninsula
what did OP mean by this?
classes are imbalanced, over a half of specs are useless and every class that's not a 100% dedicated dps is forced into healing
good. Name some useless specs.
arms warrior, any non combat rogue, arcane and frost mage (fire in first two tiers), any not destruction warlock, any not holy priest, any not resto shaman, any not holy paladin, any not resto druid, any not marksman hunter
>pvp specs
>somehow useless
what also arms warrior can rek in raids
you can probably do naxx with 'bad specs' only
blizzard has always done the balancing carousel to make people level alts and switch mains ,but it's never been imbalanced to the point where it's unplayable
You’re wrong. Naxx is only easy because it’s been minmaxxed to hell. Unless your group is already in naxx gear you’re gimping yourself by bringing in something like a balance druid who is doing a 3rd of a mage’s damage.
you can, but everyone is sweaty as frick and they'd rather go do naxx with 37 people than take an enhancement shaman or retribution paladin
I saw a guild fall apart, because a guy was allowed to bring his spriest to a raid.
The private servers had plenty of Ret Pally's in Naxx raids, some of them pulled good DPS had god tier gear.
Classic was a bit more sweaty with no fun allowed!
Fairly sure pservers had bad spell coefficients (particularly on Consecration) on top of overall wrong values
Yeah that is true, even nost wasn't that accurate.
I was asked to bring my ret over my warrior in Naxx in classic, because I had crazy damage on trash packs, was able to emergency heal on loatheb and could tank 4 horsemen better (I had better tank gear than on my warrior). Suited me, because I got the ashbringer.
>every class that's not a 100% dedicated dps is forced into healing
I always, ALWAYS had 1 spot for a spriest in my raids.
t. Warlock full naxx bis before Classic ended
Nobody brings a dps shadow priest, larper. They bring in a healing priest specced into shadow vuln. Their job is to keep it up while healing not dpsing.
Nah, I brought a full on Spriest.
There's no need for that Shadow weaving heal priest meme shit
We had 3 Warlocks and 1 Spriest increased all of our damage dramatically.
There's no need for a shadow priests when a healer doing it was more effective than bringing a meme spec
That's how bad vanilla balance is
The best argument about how vanilla balance is, is that it was all fixed in TBC and no one ever complained about it. Turned out every spec can be useful.
warriors cried all of TBC classic, as did the rogues not getting glaives
classes dont become passable until Wrath, vanilla is an actual embarrassment of class design and balance
Nah they had their own niche and usefulness. They just weren't making 40% of the raid anymore.
I did, but I also had a warrior, because I knew how it will end.
>is that it was all fixed in TBC
TBC class balance in PvE was worse than vanilla
rogues was the biggest meme class, warriors were tank only and every raid was stacking locks and shamas
TBC objectively had more useful specs than vanilla
This is objectively true, because objectively, there were more classes to play with.
But at same time also made min-maxing homosexualry even more supreme, making some specs not optimal > useless.
why don't you like min/maxxing? is it because you suck and cant parse? its okay, the game is actually pretty hard.
I wish i could bother to give you a serious response but i can see you can't try to either.
thats the only reason i can think of. you dont like the competition because you aren't skilled enough to win. i get legendary parses on every fight
I don't mind min-maxing. I've done most of the old-school content with Warrior, rogue, and Hunter.
My argument was that even if TBC has ""more specs"", most of them are not optimal - therefore they fall into the same category as in vanilla boomkins or whatever.
So it's kinda apples-to-oranges argument comparing TBC to Vanilla in that sense. I think 40men raids are so lenient (and easy) you can definitely pack easily 10 guys in nonoptimal.
At the end of the day its just preference - i don't do raid-leading stuff and i don't care if you play suboptimal, in the end, the raid is a group effort.
what spec was useless in tbc?
Ret
an optimal raid setup did bring a ret paladin
Optimal raid set ups don't bring a ret. Prot paladin can bring all the ret utility and still perform their role.
most guilds did run 1 ret though because most guilds weren't optimal or didn't speedrun
TBC doesnt have more specs
It has more VIABLE specs
Even beyond just the specs you want at least 1 of in a raid, the gaps are also substantially smaller than vanilla where warriors and rogues were head and shoulders above other specs
>I think 40men raids are so lenient (and easy)
totally irrelevant, everything before WoD mythic is so easy comp is irrelevant. But that doesnt change player mentality of bring the best and players not wanting their spec to be dogshit
Of course, it has more specs, it has 3 more specs total, it is just objective truth.
VIABLE is kinda a non-argument, since every spec was viable in vanilla too. There was always an edge-case scenario. This doesn't mean you can bring 20 survi hunters or whatever. No one is preventing people to do stupid decisions of course.
>totally irrelevant, everything before WoD mythic is so easy comp is irrelevant. But that doesnt change player mentality of bring the best and players not wanting their spec to be dogshit
Its my opinion, not objective. There are always people who like to play the underdog and people who want to just make things as optimal as possible, this changes no matter game you play - you can only choose who you play with.
No it doesnt you moronic monkey, the non-healer paladin and shaman specs already existed and already sucked ass in vanilla, TBC massively improved them so you had useful shaman DPS and pally tank
>This doesn't mean you can bring 20 survi hunters or whatever.
then obviously its not viable as a DPS, since its failing at its role. A class could do literally 0 damage and still get carried through a raid, that doesnt make it viable
Did you play vanilla? Elemental and Enchantment were both viable.
Anyway, we can split hairs forever - they got improved to TBC but at same time it was away from someone else.
>then obviously its not viable as a DPS, since its failing at its role. A class could do literally 0 damage and still get carried through a raid, that doesnt make it viable
I think you're just arguing for arguing sake cuz that's literally what i was saying.
>Elemental and Enchantment were both viable.
No they werent moron
> they got improved to TBC but at same time it was away from someone else.
irrelevant, the power was taken away from the top and distributed throughout the raid group, thats called balance. Its not an issue that warriors were no longer overpowered, it WAS an issue that boomkins were a dead spec in vanilla
You sound like you repeat what you heard someone say about vanilla.
Anyway sorry for trying to have 'serious' conversation and wasting my time.
nice cope moron, luckily everything is heavily logged in 2019 and we both know youre lying
Sorry your favorite game was shit in 2004, shit in 2019 and will always be shit
min/maxxing makes half the classes in the game irrelevant. It's boring and simply highlights how braindead zoomers are and how bad at balance blizzard was.
not optimal specs were already useless in vanilla, tbc didnt create this
TBC gives benefits to bringing 1 or 2 of more specs than vanilla you would never touch, the balance is objectively better
see
>balance means that only classes that deal damage matter, classes that bring utility don't
Man, it is almost like you morons didn't actually play the fricking game.
>utility
nobody fricking cared
roll lock or at least sham or gtfo
Yep. nobody cared about bringing a shadow priest so those warlocks deal like 10% more damage. Nobody cared about moonkins, who were mandatory in each warlock group because 5% crit is a big deal. Nobody cared about rets bringing the best debuff in the game. Nobody cared about hunter stacking and bringing warriorsrogues so they can put on sunders.
Shut the frick up, moron.
>rogues
>in TBCC raids
don't warglaives rogues shit out dps?
yes, but don't tell the warriors that
yes, but they need to suffer before getting them
in my guild people refused to invite rogues even in normal 5ppl
Dedicated Expose Armor bot, please understand.
Yeah, but warriors do it better.
Bullshit, pretty much all specs were at least able to get a raid spot, in vanilla it was max one meme class, who was more of a morale increase chewtoy.
Also it shows that you never played TBC much, if there was one meme spec that really was useless it was the warrior tank, Druids were the best for taking punishment an Paladins were the preffered choice for aggro (not by much) and AOE (by a lot).
>just want a warrior waifu on classic that I can healbawd for
Dream never comes true.
not with that attitude you b***h
>Loot is almost perfect
Loot is extremely bad.
Tons of awful gear with very low amount of drops per boss for 40 man raids
Racials are cool, wow toned them down drastically from previous mmos. Race should matter in an rpg.
I love seething paladin players crying about orcs though. Little pansies.
>Loot is almost perfect but it could be tweaked but idk how
strength on cloth is perfect? i love vanilla and hate the expansions but some of the gear was just bizarre
it's sad they did away with the wonky items though like "chance to summon a demon on hit"
You can't have insanely memorable gear without having some items that are bizarre and seem really bad. When you start out, you'll get greens that have +stats, but they can be next to useless, like +spirit on mail or +strength on cloth. As you get higher and higher levels, the items get better and better stats, like +spell power, +spell crit/hit, +attack power and +hit/crit and the stats trend to be better for the armor type. There's also items like White Bandit Mask, that gives good +str and +agi as a cloth item. It's bad for casters, but physical classes can use it just fine, it will just give less survivability than leather/mail counterparts.
If every green quest reward cloth item had +int +stamina, you'd never get excited for random green drops, because quests already give you really good gear. It's supposed to be serviceable, but it'll always feel like there's room for improvement and it feels great when you get a "perfect" item even while leveling when your other items feel lacking.
vanillagays are just warrior mains who want to have their shot at parsing on 15 year old content while having an aneurysm when they see a hybrid not in healing gear
I had tier 2.5 on my ret when naxx hit and some handout gear from older raids like accuria and I was being told to kms by people who inspected me while I was holding the instance of DMN open for world buffs.
this is you
I also raided with a warrior, also who loses 1v1 against a warrior as a ret? It's literally impossible.
>someone spent time creating this
It is an accurate description to the average Ganker tard at the time when Classic just came out. Shame about wojakniggetry.
Nobody actually rolled a paladin dude, if you believe that you're as moronic as them. Every server is 50% warriors, 30% mages and 20% cucks who settled on being healbitch.
Plenty of people rolled paladin. Human Male Paladin was literally a meme in any serious guild, making fun of players from that image. I know you only believe what you actually read here but try playing a game for once.
I played WoW when it released, I have no need to play it again. If you look at any raid it's got the proportions I listed. Maybe 1 or 2 paladins who cucked into holy.
kys you frickin b***h queer
i play hunter actually. its the only class that doesn't instantly die or go oom in pvp
>he hasn't done secrets of naxx
>I'm just gonna say it, Vanilla WoW is almost perfect. The only issues are:
Reminder that vanilla WoW back in the days was the perfect equivalent of what Fortnite is today
>Cartoony game
>aimed towards kids
>99% of the players are young kids
>everyone else in the gaming community made fun of it and the players
The only reason people here think it was a good game is because you played it as a kid or young teenager, you WERE the fortnite kids back in the days.
Almost all the people I played with were boomers back then who came from other older mmos. My entire guild was 30-40 in vanilla.
>Almost all the people I played with were boomers back then who came from other older mmos
No it wasn't. Every single kid in school played WoW, when you talked to someone it was nearly always a young kid playing. Then you had the super casual dads that also played it, but that was far a minority.
One of the reasons you think only old people played it is because most kids didn't bother at all with the raiding stuff and voice chat, the few people that actually did that was the older players.
You played it yourself back in the days you say, then you know that WoW had the exact same stigma that Fortnite has today.
>You played it yourself back in the days you say, then you know that WoW had the exact same stigma that Fortnite has today.
I did play it back then and no that was no the case because video games were the nerd hobby back then.
Ugh, I wish human females in black mageweave were real bros.
>is that a.. hybrid? not paying the hybrid tax?? aaaaaaAAAAAAHHHHHH IM GOING INSANE SAVE ME AFRASIABI
average w*rrior player
so why arent warriors paying the hybrid tax?
its not surprising that geriatrics would like a game with 1 button rotations
it was those darn milk thieves who made warrior so good! i swear!
Because tigol was a whiny little homosexual
>Vanilla WoW is almost perfect.
Wrong since wow was shit from the beginning.
The other issues you forgot
>Game is literally baby tier easy
>Class balance for pvp and pve is none existent
Up the difficulty for raids by about 10 times and then it's worth playing.
>the monumental level of salt early classic TBC from warriors when they found out they werent the best anymore by virtue of bad game design
>mass suicides/rerolls to paladin/hunter/lock
>apes and their ilk disband and stop streaming because they can't be le ebin parserino fury warriors anymore
>turns out warriors were still really fricking good, just not as good at tanking
god, what a time it was
>tfw our gm just announced "reroll into hunters/locks/mages or ill kick you out"
our warriors pretty much all rerolled into shamans, of had a hunter alt ready, they even did a funny thing when they deleted their warriors and posted screenshots
same warriors they had aneurysm over when some rogue got a BIS dagger.
the GM was allowed to keep his rogue in TBC.
The fact that horde racials especially orc one is far superior making the whole raid essentially get +10-15k dps as a whole minimum making alliance struggle to compete is a bit fricked up. Sure there's still a frickton of alliance speedrun guilds doing amazing as well as a frickton of pink even gold parsers, but it's still nonsense that you have to fight with at least a 2% DPS deficit.
>t. pink parsing enhancement shaman.
Alliance get their revenge in Wrath when Humans are handed a fricking pvp trinket as a racial.
oh I was talking about Wrath, I wonder if there's any balancing in Cata/MOP on that side of things, i've never played those expansions.
At the time, when 95% or more of the player base was trash at the game, vanilla was really good and the balance felt okay. These days it's really not the same because the game has long since been solved by autists who minmax everything and have memorized broken setups and/or (the comparatively shalllow) optimal decision trees for each class encounter. TBC is even worse because there are so many broken setups and classes (e.g. rogue, shaman, hunter) which leave a defender almost no chance unless there is a significant gear disparity. Wrath is unfortunately the first playable solved expansion, which sucks because it introduced many of the elements which eventually ruined the game.
>If you tried hard to play the game you were the issue with the game
If you believe this you're mentally moronic. If you cry people figure out a game you're just b***hing because you want to be some special boy or a complete brainlet to not be able to see the best in spells, abilities, items, ect.
Simple as.
WOTLK is best
>rehashed casual naxx
>death knights demolishing everything
>wintergrasp and its tenacity garbage
>strand of the ancients was so bad it was deleted from the game
>the tournament and everything associated with it but especially the dailies
>dungeons are a complete joke even on heroic
nah it was pretty shit. Even ulduar can't save it
>bland taste casual normie shitter's first mmo
>almost perfect
what is the "hardcore" mmo you play tranime poster.
runescape
>troonscape and tranimeposter
all adds up.
You have to go back
>reddit!!!
isn't it your dilation time?