I'm learning sf6 and having such a hard time with the inputs on classic. I've tried hitbox, keyboard, and pad. Only thing I haven't tried yet is stick. I hear it's a more satisfying experience to play on stick and it's a lot more clean since there is such mechanical feedback using the stick for directional inputs. Thoughts?
i don't know about SF, but i struggled a LOT in doing overdrives in strive on controller, but found it much easier on keyboard
Play on what is comfortable to you. Generally most players (Who were not raised in arcades) play on controllers or hitbox.
>I'm learning
the input doesn't matter all that much. Play with whatever is comfortable
arcade stick is arguably the worst peripheral for fighting games these days, most games have good leniency on inputs, and the travel time of the stick makes it actually slower than a controller/keyboard/hitbox, the only reason to use a stick is if you are genuinely interested in using one because of how it feels or because you are used to it, it is fun to use but completely unnecessary
>arcade stick is arguably the worst peripheral for fighting games these days
unless you provide proper data showing that pad/hitbox/keyboard is indeed faster than stick I'd call bullshit on this one
>b-but it feels faster
yeah frick off
Why would you need data to know hitbox/keyboard are faster? Pad vs stick is more of a debate though.
use your fricking head you inbred, if you need to dash what is it faster on? a peripheral with actual travel time, or one you can press a button twice?
okay but does that actually make you any better at the game anon
do you even play the game very often
>does flawless EWGF/IADs/wavedashes make you actually better??????
bait or genuine midwit leverless player
you dont need a physics expert or kinesiologist to tell moving your wrist requires more effort and dexterity than a button tap, therefore less frames in-between.
>does flawless EWGF/IADs/wavedashes make you actually better??????
that is literally what I was asking, yes, so I guess the answer is no
i guess youre just moron then if (once) high level tools dont matter
what games do you compete in?
whats your fightcade? do you even play good games or just modern tranime?
what number am I thinking of right now?
the number of times a non related female touched you: zero
but really anon, do you think that using a hitbox has made you meaningfully better at fighting games, and do you compete in any games? I'm just so skeptical of what I read from people like you online about this stuff
>you don't need a proper methodology to verify a hypothesis
miss me with that flat earth science bro
the methodology is called open up literally any emulator, toggle inputs and frame data, see literally 4-5 frame gap for stick to travel from 6 through 5 to 4.
hitbox literally only requires holding 4 and letting go of 6 to get frame perfect blocking, 1 frame gap if the cheatbox SOCD is altered to accommodate capcom's new ruleset.
how is this board this fricking casual
talking about fighting games on Ganker is a good way to get annoyed if you take it seriously, I only give advice to newer players and anytime some absolute moron from here tries to start an argument I just ignore them because 99% of the time its some homosexual who watches streams exclusively or think playing smash means I should care about his opinion on fighting games
>open up literally any emulator
alright
>toggle inputs and frame data
good
>see literally 4-5 frame gap for stick to travel from 6 through 5 to 4
which tools did you use to measure this delay? please specify
>what is a stronger spring to reset to neutral faster
>what is inputting dashes at the tip of the lever's deadzone
again, you need proper metrics to measure this kind of stuff and 'your feelings' isn't one of them
there are stick techniques that are harder to do on pad like double tap and pianoing and at least one which is physically impossible unless the pad has microswitches which is hajiki screw. The only advantage pad has really is simultaneous inputs in some games by using both dpad and analog stick but that's more of an unfair exploit than anything
The order has always been hitbox > stick > pad
Travel time differences are a meme, you're using parts of your body that move faster to move an extra couple millimeters. The real disadvantage is inertia and absolute cardinal precision in games that want strict discontinuous inputs which become worse the "tighter" the stick is, which if you're playing SFII you won't give a flying frick about and appreciate hitting all the diagonals on an LS-32, but has become more and more of an issue in the last 10 years or so as 2D games adopt more 3D style inputs and overlapping inputs you'd never see in the past while valuing correct circle motions less and less.
Pads are not necessarily a solution for all of this, SF6 Chun is a ridiculous pain on DS4 (just using it for WT and messing around in training mode at 2am) because I get quarter circle motions from the d-pad rocking side to side when I do SBKs and for some god forsaken reason they have higher priority.
Hitbox/keyboard will always be the best method because directions are not coupled like stick and controller which means inputs are much more precise
I'm trying to learn stick right now after exclusively using pads for my whole life and i can already tell this is gonna take such a monumental effort to relearn everything. At this point I think I'm just gonna go back to pad. I will say that inputs feel more consistent on stick, but I'm having a hard time with muscle memory of the buttons. I'd buy some cheap shit to try first.
buying a cheap stick is a terrible idea, yes they are huge investments, but you wont get an accurate feel of what a stick will feel like with the shit parts in a cheap stick, try to test one at a local or something if you want, but do not waste your money on some 100 dollar piece of shit, you will regret it
100 dollars on a stick and then another 50 on sanwa parts isnt that big of a deal. buying a 400 dollar stick though, thats some "i bought a 3090 to play Rimworld" type shit
no way someone just wanting to start out on stick is going to want to swap parts, just buy an obsidian or something and be done with it
i bought my first stick and immediately hated square gate, then bought a new lever, octagonal gate and buttons but im an autist and artist so it was mainly a custom project
i bought my first stick and changed the stick and buttons a month later, it was a huge difference (the stick in particular)
stick customization is easy. anyone who has built a pc can switch out button
Or you could get the Monoprice Dark Matter which has sanwa parts for like $130
>monumental effort to relearn everything
It takes a day of casual play to "relearn" everything if you're not a moron
You're full of shit. The concept of performing a motion on a lever is completely different from stick. Just hitting the down input in order to do a fireball is very hard for a first timer, and that's not a thing you can learn "in a single day"
If you know the directions needed to do a fireball on a keyboard/pad you can also do it on a stick unless, like I said, you're a moron
>leverlessgay insecure about his sexuality
Like pottery. Next you're gonna remove the stick from your body I bet lmao
lmao you are a fricking mongoloid moron if you can't learn it in a day. I bet everyone back in the 90s spent WEEKS training in the arcade just to throw a single fireball lmfao
Being able to do the basic inputs and having 1:1 muscle memory are not the same thing
Takes way longer than that to learn a 6 button set up. Everything is completely different
>completely different
It's 8 directions and 6 buttons no matter which controller you use
Yes... But the layout is completely different. You are using your fingers instead of thumb. You are using whole hand for movement. It's different, crazy to argue otherwise
"different", sure. But it doesn't take ages to get used to like you're implying. At least if you're an adult with functioning brains
It will take time to learn completely new muscle memory. I say don't give up until you've given it a solid few months of true consistent practice
They're objectively the worst but I play on them just because of ergonomics and how durable they are. Also they're not hard at all to learn, you frickers just give up after one hour.
I have a stick and I enjoy it
I would suggest trying someone's stick first before committing to it
and if you think you'll magically play better on a stick, you're in for a rude awakening
>I have a stick and I enjoy it
This is it. Play the thing that's fun, not the thing that's optimal.
I play on arcade sticks because I grew up playing on arcade. If you didn't then there's no reason not to use pad, unless you plan to get into SFIV where plinking requires that you have your buttons laid out on a flat surface. Saturn controllers work thoug
the main strength of stick, its accuracy, has been muted by input leniency, if you were seriously trying to get into sf2 I might say go for it but in a modern fighter there's really very few inputs where it'd be relevant, might help with kbd in tekken. so no in sf6 a stick will just slow you down. get a controller with a decent dpad and stick with it(NOT AN XBOX CONTROLLER). also shoryukens and supers within combos are not supposed to be easy gimmes, they're supposed to be high execution optimized damage
It's satisfying sure however sticks have no clear advantages over hitbox and pad.
Hitbox has a clear advantage if you can get accustomed to it and learn the inputs required.
Pad naturally, due to the placement of buttons and the button options, allow for execution of things you can't normally do on stick. Some say allows for faster reactions slightly as well.
Stick does have its advantages over a few things but it's no longer common in modern games. Example piano inputs is no longer a thing in SF6.
Play whatever you find most comfortable unless you want a advantage with a hitbox.
stick isn't worth it. pad for cheap option, snackbox or keeb brawler otherwise
Stick is fun and leverless is for homosexuals
Have fun rubbing your knob, homosexual
What inputs are you having trouble with? For me hitbox has made most inputs feel easier, but wityh some games I'd prefer stick on, maybe its a muscle memory thing. Its all about comfort man, try it out and worst case you return it. None of this technical shit matters if you hate how the thing feels. I never quite felt right with pad, and ever since I got a stick I never looked back because it was just the right fit for me. I would reccomment a HORI Fight commander 4 if you ever wanna use pad, but hate regular controllers.
Supers, wake up super, cancelling into super. In game I can get it like 10% of the time. Hitbox works well but within 5 minutes it fricks my hands, I'll literally be in pain
>cancelling into super
this is supposed to be hard.
Maybe you need to stretch your fingers more? I suppose a stick would remove the need to use your left hand in such a way, but what's to say it won't bring up other finger related pains?
Controller hurts my hand to do dp's on so yes
It's fun how 30+ years of stick snobbery led to the current day reality where everyone admits its inferior to either gamepads or keyboards LOL.
every fighting game has been neutered for the sloppiness of dpad inputs, that's why they aren't outclassed.
thats because games execution requirements have been dumbed down significantly and hitbox is literally a cheating device, stick still has its place in games like tekken though
That's another pro, if you buy and learn stick now you can play sf6 then be ready to kick some ass in Tekken when it drops
Honestly, Pad is surely the best if you're not familiar with Stick and Leverless (Hitbox).
If you're like me (Pad player for like 24 years), you'll perform better on Pad due to muscle memory, even for Charge characters. The problem is that there isn't really a great Pad so far (except DS4). Once we get a clean pad with back paddles, good software etc, it'll be highlight for real.
It does seem like most the pros use ds4
heres your controller bro
Looks neat. Is it a DIY kit or something?
some guy is selling these for 99 bucks on etsy
>99 bucks
>for that
Jesus fricking christ
99 bucks is nothing are you poor
>99 bucks for a few keycaps and a cheap board
Pay up goy
make your own then
I have, multiple times
sounds like you've got it all figured out
99 bucks is 99 bucks even if you're rich. That thing looks like it might be worth $60 if I'm being generous.
That's fricking garbage for 99. Put in 55 more and get this
direction and face buttons are too far apart
cant do electric with them
"Electric" isn't a mash input anymore moron
You didn't hand me anything though
Muscle memory doesn't matter. It's a completely different method of input and piece of hardware. This is like playing baseball your whole life then complaining your golf swing sucks because you're "used to baseball."
Up to you, cheatboxes have unfortunately taken over.
They are quite painful to use for me but it could be the size of my controller. I use a fightbox and it seems like the buttons are smaller than the ones I see on arcade sticks
anon these days its just 33
You do 323, actually.
i really wanna get a hitbox because its harder to frick up input in it but people consider that cheating...
i used to the Z input is hard but then when i started taking sf6 seriously its not really that hard
idk if i got better or they made it easier
Is it a good idea to learn fighting games on a controller, which is what I'm used to playing all games with, and then moving to an arcade stick once I'm not a flailing button masher?
no choose what you want to use now and then stick with it. Just get a hitbox or knock off because it gives you advantages when you get used to using it
But I like the feeling of a stick, but my fricking hands get so sweaty immediately and my inputs just come out wrong. Whereas I have instant muscle memory for a control pad, but I'm new to playing fighting games.
Not getting a hitbox, at that point I may as well just play on keyboard.
Switching controller will not make you any better at the game, and you shouldn't look at a pad as a controller only good for mashing buttons. You need to get good, not buy more gear. Buy an arcade stick if it's something you want to use to play the game, not because you think it's what people good at the games use to play them.
I will say if you have the money you should try all the different options to see what you like the best
I think if you really want an arcade stick that you can't go wrong with owning one. If it looks fun to play on then you'll probably get your money's worth. It will not, however, make you any better at the game. Especially not this one. It was designed specifically to cater to control schemes other than an arcade stick.
Have you ever tried a pad with six buttons, like a Saturn pad? I personally hate playing these kinds of games on anything but a six-button pad or an arcade stick.
Instead of trying hitbox, keyboard and pad, if you had stuck with one you would be way better
Instead you stayed shit at three different types
If a guy can play with his mouth, you can play any of them
Doing option selects on pad was too hard for me without changing my button layout so I switched to cheatbox
you can hold two directions at once on keyboard/hitbox so its goated
You can also do this on keyboard or a pad with analog sticks. It hardly matters since you can't hold 2 directions at the same time in modern games
I've been playing on stick for over a decade now but thinking about switching to hitbox. What's the best brand?
the one that's in stock
Snackbox micro for me personally, but I'm a bawd for how portable it is. If you're just playing at home then you might prioritize differently.
Sticks are better because you can put a picture of your waifu under the faceplate
That's what I did and it does make me enjoy it more
Is the pic related Mayflash F500 Elite with Sanwa Buttons and Sanwa Joysticks a good first stick pick? It looks cool because it compatible with literally everything
If you wanna drop money on a stick then by all means give it a shot. In the end just use what you like any difference in speed or shortcut usage won't matter unless you're playing at a very high level.
The reality is there is a learning curve no matter what you use
Whatever you use you just have to stick (lol) with it and eventually it will feel natural and comfortable
That being said controller is definitely the hardest for traditional 2D fighters and I wouldn't recommend it for 3D fighters especially Tekken it's not bad
>all the memebox shilling itt
they're really paying you guys overtime after capcom banned them, aren't they?
>Banned them
they only banned ones that didn't have a simple firmware update
After which they'll just ban them again since the firmware update introduced more exploits. Capcom doesn't want leverless controllers in their tourneys
I have the SF6 Fight Stick with an Octagate installed, and the button placement makes more sense on the Fight Stick. It feels more natural to match the shape of a hand.
Here is a review of the SF6 Fight Stick.
Frick off, shill
I have it, its nice that’s why I mentioned it.
Are the button connectors gator clips?
Not sure, its the first stick I’ve ever bought. I was going to get a drone then add sanwa but this review swayed me. That’s why I posted it.
230 for your first stick is pretty big imo. Hope you like it nonetheless, getting a stick makes fighting games a lot more interesting and fun.
No, they're fitted connectors. They slip over.
>Octagonal gate on SF
Why anon?
It’s closer to what I used in the arcade playing SF2 as a kid.
Cool, as long as you enjoy it. Sticks are for fun, them sweating homosexuals use keyboard caps on a cutting board to play.
Stick is literally the worst. No one plays on stick anymore.
no one besides the majority of the top players lol
What top players that play stick? Go watch CEO. Almost nobody plays stick.
who is using what is a product of their time period, sf5 era pros all use pad, sf4 is a mixed bag, anything before that or japanese is on stick
shill thread
sticks have been made almost entirely obsolete and are only propped up by the fact hitboxes are banned in tournament play
until those poor stick manufacturers sell out their stock of obsolete toys, expect to see stick threads on the daily from here on out
Stick is the most fun peripheral and learning it will allow to you play on actual arcade machines if you ever come across one.
Stick seems like the true and pure way to play fighting games. Like flyfishing is the most pure way to fish. Sure other rods work and you can catch fish, but using a stick is what the more pure gods use for the love, cultural beauty and tradition of 1v1 battle.
it's also the arcade standard which I guess pisses off console pad purists and keyboard PC purists. It's similar to arcade racing where some autists swear that pad is the better controller over wheel. Really bizarre.
This channel has a review of every joystick, and how to mod them. I found it because I originally wanted to get a Drone and add Sanwa parts and it had a guide. It has a review for tons of other joysticks too.
https://youtube.com/@JoystickNY
Stick is great for certain characters that require particular inputs such as those with negative edge (holding buttons down) and rotations (like 360 and 720 motions). You can make it work on other controllers by moving some face buttons to shoulders and the like however for example on pad.
Who here /homebuilt/?
I built this the other day, did the wiring from scratch
Help me decide on art, I want to do something stupid
It looks all dicked up because the film is still on the underside of the acrylic
What console is it for?
It has a brook universal so any console. I'm using it on PC but have friends with all sorts of consoles
This is my opinion after reaching Master and playing on a Razer Panthera
Between pad, leverless and traditional stick (w/o aditional buttons), stick is by far the worst on a competitive level
Pad is the best for motion characters (less finger travel distance + finger always on DI and DR) and leverless is the best for morons and SOCD comp.
But arcade stick is the most fun you can have in FGs
How long have you been playing fgs? Master seems impossible
>stick is by far the worst on a competitive level
agreed but even then i think the disadvantage is so marginal that it's not even worth caring about, having a stick vs a hitbox is almost certainly not going to be the difference between winning or losing a match
>mfw I make it out of EVO pools with my USB neuralink adapter in 2036
OI i need a crown stick for a sanwa hole, any hispanics know where i can get one.
can someone shill me a fight stick that's actually in stock
qanba has a 20% off sale because of CEO right now, check their website
I've gone from playing with keyboard to a stick back to playing with a keyboard. It just feels more comfortable since you don't need to move a big box with buttons around every time you want to play a fighting game. The only problem is 720 inputs
Also anyone looking to buy a decently cheap stick I got the Venom arcade stick for PS4 and PC for around 80 euros if I remember correctly
what buttons do you use for keyboard
AWSD and 789 for punches 456 for kicks
what about di and parry?
I just press 8 and 5 for parry and 9 and 6 for DI, but you could assign them to a key if you prefer it
any arcade stick for Steam Deck without needing to have a shitty firmware update to do on windows ?
No, stick is hard to learn if you're starting from zero, unless you're playing zangief I don't recommend it
If you're not used to playing on stick there's no reason to get one for any fighting game made in the last 10 years. Modern fighting games are made with pad in mind.
No, a pad is better. Only boomer who think arcades are still a thing and can't move on still play in those overpriced garbage. Hitbox is also better and don't strain your wrist so much in the long run.
>Hitbox is also better and don't strain your wrist so much in the long run.
Is this even true? I still see players face similar wrist issues even if they used hitbox or stick. Plus there's a bunch of hitbox players that play on tiny shit like this
and I can't even see how that'd be better for your wrist.
>I'm learning sf6
>I hear... it's a lot more clean
I don't know where you've been but literally everyone, including pros, have been complaining about how they're either not getting inputs or getting the wrong ones even while playing on stick. That aside, modern fighting games are made with both pad and stick in mind. Unless you end up wanting to play older fighting games, which were designed with arcade hardware in mind, I wouldn't worry about it.
>doesn't do her flower kick
Sup brehs, I bought this plastic piece of shit but it seems half way decent. I still drop inputs all. the. time. But I think it's mainly a skill issue. The pad is pretty stiff but will hopefully loosen up in time(like your mom, heh)
No when the pad "loosens up" it'll just stop reading inputs correctly like every memepad. There's a reason why every pro just uses DS4 or xbone
Ah shit
It'll still last 3-6 months but I'd save it for playing retro games
Honestly, how do you wake up super in this game
You buffer the input
doesn't work
Sf6 that is
Stick is worse than pad/hitbox at this point. The people still using stick are doing so because it's what they grew up with and are used to. Sticks are slowly phasing out in favor of hitboxes.
Is the consensus that DualShock 4 is the best pad?
That or the wired xbone with a real dpad (core fusion wired is a good clone.) Depends mostly on if you like a lighter controller (DS4) and which dpad placement you prefer.
stick is most fun and comfy, especially for SF and other games with special move motions
keyboard / shitbox that isn't overpriced is more optimal, imo way better for tekken / dash and mash games
but I wish tourneys had to use stick so there is reason to continue the larp. of course you can use whatever at home but it cheapens the competition when people p2w with controller
Isn't pad the most winning controller at EVO the last 5 years?
>but I wish tourneys had to use stick so there is reason to continue the larp
would be moronic forcing everyone to play on a certain device that usually costs $200-300
Within a given console generation if you play fighting games the entire time you will spend more on replacing pads. Never mind my sticks are from PS360 era still.
The way to do it is a standard stick as part of the setups the same as the monitors though.
>frame perfect blocking
holy shit lmao people still pretending like hitbox is magic and not just a keyboard with big buttons
It's a keyboard with big buttons in a more ergonomic layout that doesn't brick when you plug two of them into the console/PC
I just grabbed old used arcade sticks off local craigstlist-like market and modded them.
1) Old XBOX HORI something.
Modded with Sanwas, kowal octopus gate and oversized actuator, phreakmods link, 2lnb spring (tho you can stretch the spring to be more stiff)
2) HORI something for PS4 - samducksa buttons, again kowal octopus + oversized actuator + 2lnb spring + phreakmods link
Doing a third one - ordered an empty case off Ebay to do a leverless hitbox like with removable lever. Got two kids with whom i enjoy duking out arcade games on the sticks + it will serve me as a hitbox for my fightans.
A third one is a sally box from aliexpress (mini hitbox with keyboard switches for when im on the run and want to play on steam deck)
All in all - if you had to ask me - playing on stick is the most fun, tactile way. It's easier to remember combos too, than on a pad.
Tho I've played on a gamepad since GG #R years and only recently switched to stick (cant get my Sol Badguy game up to par, but ive played on a PS2 pad so much I developed a thicker skin on a side of my left thumb lol - hitbox might be the answer my guess, but lever is just more fun).
Great, thread fricking died, just when i joined.
but the thread is still here
Looks really cool. That's one fun and awesome part about fighting sticks, you get to customize and mod them
Finally, an Arcade Stick thread! Generally yes, its preferable over pads, but WHICH stick you get will matter a lot
>what about hitbox/stickless
Assuming you have a version that is not a cheat enabled thing with SOCD that gets you banned from tournaments and most these days even online won't allow those inputs, its not necessarily "better" than someone playing on a lever ; its more of preference. Personally I think you get more general usage out of a lever design rather than a buttonless only, so unless you're a really high tier player who only is into certain fighters, its not a very good idea.
However, if you're going to buy or build a stick, its good to find those that are modular and let you do what you like by swapping different panels. Yes they're more expensive but if you're in that tier its worth it anyway. Also, there is a new generation of " lever AND extra buttons" style stick layouts
Personally, the things I value are just weird on stick for me. Double tapping directions for a dash/airdash feels slower with a stick. I also tend to get stuck at a diagonal when I try to do a motion input, I remember playing Persona at a cab and a lot of my quarter circle inputs didn’t go through because I kept stopping at the diagonal. But that’s more on me, it’s what I get for having pansy ass wrists.
Couple of things about Arcade Sticks that may help new anons
>Do you care about modern consoles, retro consoles w/o using an emulator, or just PC?
This will depend on what kind of "brain" your stick needs in its PCB. While there are some RasPi based cheap boards, if you want a full featured PCB the best boards are generally made by Brook - they are firmware update capable, have multiple option for SOCD cleaning and can support tons of inputs etc. Also you generally want the version that has all the pins/connectors pre soldered unless you have a very specific reason to do it yourself; the version you have to solder is NOT cheaper or anything really. The Latest models is the new big dick Universal Fighting Board FUSION which works even on PS5 with a single PCB now.
>Focus Attack and ArcadeShock
These are two of your vendors for FGC arcade stick building FA is East Coast based, AS is West; they both do things the other doesn't in some cases, but havea lot of crossover. They also do stuff like professional prints for artwork for your stick and more.
>Prebuilt off the shelf, prebuilt custom, case/kit, or just throw it together
There are a lot of options so depending on how much you want to spend, if you're opening to modding and more you can take a step forward here.
>Layout, modular, feature, lever type and mods, button types and mods etc.
It depends on your stick how much variation you can do easily but there's a lot to cover depending on your interest.
Back in the glory days of 4 I bought a stick (hori rap vx-sa) for like 200 because I wanted to get good, never been an arcade player
I ended up being legit worse then when I played on a controller for 1-2 months as I learned how to use it, but the $ I spent encouraged me to keep using it and now I can't picture playing 2d fighters on anything else, still using it to this day
At the end of the day just use whatever you're comfortable with, If you're trying to be optimal hitbox is probably the best but it doesn't really matter, luffy won an evo on 4 with a ps1 pad for example. Just pick one and stick with it, changing controllers constantly is going to frick with muscle memory
arcade stick is best if you plan on travelling to japan to beat up japanese chainsmoking salary men at arcades.
hitbox is best if you want to goon with troonyfurries on the meltyblood discord and larp as core for prolapsing each other in bathrooms at homosexual game community majors.
except japs use hitboxes and modern arcade cabs have inputs to hook up your own controller
Okay kiddo go take your DualSense and plug it into that CPS2.
nice, what about pad though?
i swapped from stick to pad for sf6.
trying to instant dr on stick is hell.
What pad ya using? I just bought a ds4 from the info I gathered in this thread
Anyone building or buying a custom-grade/kit stick anytime soon, keep an eye on pic related. Don't spend big cash on the old Universal and/or old Universal + UFB-UP5 sub-board if this is coming out. In july the version with the pre-soldered headers will be available, so keep your eyes open.
I fully expect this board alone to cost more than my 7th gen sticks did.
I'm just going to make my own from scratch and open source the firmware. There's no reason anyone should be charging $60+ for these stupid boards.