Mekton Zeta

4e is coming out soonish and should be cross compatible with 2e resources so neither option is a bad one. 2e iirc has some wonky balancing with it's attributes but 4e is looking to have none and replacing it with "skill domains". It remains to be seen how 4e will fair. Also 4e would incorporate the new Blitz units of the colony worlds like Eden where as the old 2e books might feel slightly scarce on content for them outside of Terra Nova and Caprice.
Btw what happened to mecha monday? I haven't seen it for 2 weeks.

I'm reading Remastered and it seems pretty complete.

Adding to this, Lancer IS customizable, that's true.

The issue is that it's customizable in all the wrong ways.

You don't build a mech from disparate parts, components, and logistical concerns with many different mechanical considerations to keep in mind and potential vulnerabilities.

You have a 'Hero' unit. You customizable this hero unit with 'Equipment' and 'Skill Unlocks'.

It's just, fundamentally, not a Mecha game. It's a Pen and Paper MOBA game that's trying to pretend to be a Mecha game.

I suppose, if I had to pin down the ultimate issue with Lancer, it's that it's constantly clashing against what it wants to do.

There are two broad genres of Mecha, Super robot and Real robot, and both have their strengths and weaknesses.

Lancers issue is that it's trying to be a Real Robot game when it's mechanics support being a Super Robot game instead, and those genres don't play well together.

In a real robot game, the 'how' the Mech was built, assembled, and the logic of its creation is all very apparent. You get to see the bones that go into it's stat block. It's mechanically fiddly, yes, but that's one of the core appeals. Even if you simplify it a lot, it needs this wider assembly system to feel like a proper design process. This way you can infer information about unknown mechs immediately through nothing more than systems knowledge. This is important.

Lancer doesn't do this though. Each mech is a unique entity, mechanically. Each one is built according to logic that you don't get to see, with tools you can't understand. You can only infer potential upgrades, but if a brand new mech appeared before you, you have almost no way of telling what it can do. There is no wider system to grasp.

This would be fine if the game was revolving around one-off super robots fighting against each other, where such is the norm and expected at times. But they don't do that.

All of the fluff text and the way it's presented is trying to sell the idea that these robots are mass-produced warmachines that operate according to an understanding of semi-coherent rules and mechanical logic. But you don't get to see any of that. So you can't grasp the real robot nature, because it's all arbitrary magic.

And I know they weren't trying to make a super robot game, because there's no ham and cheese dialogue. They were trying to present real robots, but these robots don't have any wider mechanical design system to understand, so you can only memorize them individually.

But Heavy Gear and Jovian Chronicles are both Real Robot systems and have the same thing occur?

The tech manual give Gears a lot of grounded flavour but has no bearing on the rules. Gears still can do anything the game designers want them to do at any point (doubly for the non-TN mechs) and the game rules have to accommodate that. The way I saw the poster was someone wanting something like GURPS vehicles for mecha, when of course GURPS mecha mostly clings to the super-robot side.

I think the disconnect happens because Lancer embraced the Shadow of the Demon Lord/D&D 4E game paradigm that the player characters don’t work the same way as NPCs.

Players get to customise their chassis, npcs are only grouped by narrative role and what mechs or vehicles they are using are up to narrative fiat.

The NPCs can be using a mixture of Everests and Shermans with a few motorised rocket batteries. But gameplay-wise they are a mixture of Assault-types, a Witch to represent a EW variant made locally the GM names on the spot as a Radiant-Class, Everest-Pattern Government AC and a few Grunts Bombards with the Vehicle Tag to represent the newly named Super-Katyushas since they are supposed to be weak to being shot.

Always loved this art.
Its both obviouslly "hey, this is UC gundam"
but its also like "but we are still going to make it distinct from UC gundam too"
The forground mech is obviously a federation sort like a GM or Jegan, and the background obviously a zaku like thing. But its not just a lazy slightly modified to not get copywrite shit, they actually did unique interpretations of both styles. The federation like one has a sweet retro hotrod thing going on , while the german world war look of the Zion is taken to a nice retro wolfenstein look to it.

>I think the disconnect happens because Lancer embraced the Shadow of the Demon Lord/D&D 4E game paradigm that the player characters don’t work the same way as NPCs.

Thats always been a slight system pet peive of mine to. I can understand it, but then it gives this weird implication that some of the fiction is less real then other parts in a hammy way. dont get me wrong, having more bare bones refrences for mooks is great for streamlining, but I like seeing more fully formed entites too when they arent just background fodder.

I cannot speak for them, that may completely true or it might not be. I haven't played either, so I can't provide input on them.

I have played Mekton Zeta, Battletech, and Lancer. I have heard good things about Heavy Gear and Jovian chronicles, but that's about all I can definitely say. Perhaps that disqualifies me from the discussion, even so.

Lancer doesn't feel like a real robot game, because the mechanics don't feel like they support underlying mecha design understanding. It doesn't feel like a real robot game because the mechs are treated as characters rather than tools. It doesn't feel like a real robot game because a lot of it's fluff text is handwaved with 'paracausality'.

Lancer just doesn't feel like a real robot system, and I'm not sure if I can properly articulate why.

Battle Century G.

I like Battletech, it's popular for a reason. Although you'd want to play one of the Mechwarrior variants most likely.

I like Mekton Zeta, even though it is an aged system. If you can handle the mechanically fiddlyness of it all, then it's excellent. If you can't, then probably look elsewhere. I like it the best myself because through it I can fill out a lot of human scale rules with cyberpunk 2020 rules and concepts, albeit with slight homebrew required. There are even porting rules. It's massively complicated overall, but in terms of sheer amount of content it's hard to beat.

I have heard good things about Heavy Gear and Jovian Chronicles, but I can't confirm if they're good or not personally.

I believe there was an RPG called Battle Century G that was good, but I'm not sure.

If you want a super robot game, you're probably best looking for a superhero game and stating our mechs in it instead. Mutants and Masterminds might function the best for this, but make sure to read the rules.

I dislike rules light systems, so I can't recommend any for you. Sorry friend.

Ye, it's very fiddly, but it does open up the possibilities of using effectively all the content from two ttrpgs at once, which is hard to beat in terms of scale for sci-fi and especially Mecha ttrpgs

I like using the Psychic Powers from MZ+ to get the more esoteric half of the Cyberpunk genre.

I mean, I suppose it's possible that I completely misunderstood what they were going for, but it doesn't feel anything like I'd expect a Super Robot game to feel like.

Typically, in Super Robot shows, the conflicts are less about the actual morality of war and ideologies, but rather conflicts of good and evil with the respective robots being vessels that represent a great amount of power bestowed upon the individual used to defend what they consider good.

I suppose I can see that in vague terms, but the games of Lancer are set in border regions, usually working for megacorporations or large governments to suppress terrorists and dirt farmers and whatnot. Often you fight against people of opposing factions but there's not a moral juxtaposition.

...Well, I can see that too with how the writers are, but even ignoring that part, it's just narratively dissonant.

When I engage in a Super Robot series, I'm not expecting mud and grit and morally dubiousness and such. I'm expecting shine and bold colors and battles of willpower, not guns.

I suppose they were going for a Super Robot game, but the default areas that battles take place don't feel like Super Robot situations.

Aren’t Lancer’s mechs just there for morale? That goes against everything mechs represent in super robot stories. Super Robot stories are about mechs and their pilots being the only things holding back the enemy because they are the only ones able to do it. Hell even in Real Robot stories mechs obsolete conventional weapons.
I think that boils it down to the actual issue. It’s a Real Robot game pretending to be Super Robot but mechs have no real to exist because they are obsolete. That would piss off any mecha fan.

>I haven't read it, but...
Average anon on /tg/ talking about Lancer

Definitely a possibility, but I'm honestly asking for good RPG suggestions.

I guess that's why I threw out a good half of the setting and went full SRW with my campaigns. Made the game a lot more enjoyable.
Playing theme songs when core powers are activated is a mandatory rule when running it this way.

I would say that because in Lancer your characters are the mechas, not the pilots that it feels less mecha.

When I'm running a mecha game I want my players changing their loadout and mecha every other sorty. Maybe this time they are going with the high-mobility mecha for this interception and next time they will go with the underwater models to strike at that port base.

There are rumours of a Big Zam equivalent on the battlefield so they know they won't be able to hurt it with particle weapons so they need to equip appropriately.

This is what I search for in a Mecha game and it is something that Lancer can't give me.

The people calling Lancer commie and gay look at this shit and go "wow so trad" or some shit, i don't know what zoomers are up to nowadays.
"The setting included in this book presents an environmentalist, inclusive and transhumanist society opposing an industrialist empire with the looming threat of kaiju mechabeasts on the horizon. It is inspired by the likes of Turn A Gundam, Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind, Dune and Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri."

INSPIRED BY THE TURN-A FRICKING GUNDAM, with notoriously straight and manly Loran Cehack, the trve savior of the west.
Man, i'm starting to think people here don't actually fricking play games.

They basically all are. Us oldgays mostly ignore them.

Thinking about wiener again, anon, be careful

Ye.
It looks like a gonzo sci-fantasy thing. I prefer a bit more meat on the bones of my mecha, these lads are big metal skeletons.

Like, I don't believe these things are strong enough to support their own weight.

Yes yes, 'bringing realism in my giant robot game' or whatever, but it's important that the giant robots look convincingly designed. They should look like it's believable that they can support their own weights.

These lads just don't have limbs thick enough for me to believe that. They're spindly and thus look unappealing unbelievable.

That image doesn't look like two mechs and some power armor squaring off as humans run around their feet. It looks like two golems or human-scale robots facing off as goblins and faeries run around at their feet.

The scale is fricked yo.

>Northstar
>Those designs
Kinda bordering on ripoff territory...

To be fair they’re one of the only manufacturers where most of the mechs actually look like mechs.

>A woman
Eh, I guess I'll just chalk that man face up to shit art then

Superior AI art coming through, feels good that I can do better than a professional artist in ten seconds. Learn to code dipshit!

I dunno, I kinda like it.

Ehh... the mech on the left looks around 20-25 meters tall judging from the size of the person next to its foot friend, that's solidly Gundam territory and bigger than most Battletech mechs, taller at the very least.

The mechs with thin limbs you mention are all closer to 10 meters. And they're still a bit bulkier proportionally. The Ronin was something like 5-7 meters tall from what I remember, even shorter.

It's just too thin for something that tall, the inconsistent art style through the rest of the book doesn't make it any better. I can't really find myself believing in it.

Skill issue tbh, as if Gundam or Battletech are any more "believable"
Because Mechs are not fricking realistic in the first place.
Bipedal movement sucks shit in real life
A "realistic mech" would be that Tank Treads guy from Armored Core, or the 4 Legs

My guy you just conveniently forgot that "looking believable" that comes down to your subjective preferences, personal biases and the extent of your suspension of disbelief, as mechs are not fricking real.
They wouldn't exist and be supported in any meaningful way.
Gundams only exist because of Minovsky/Ahab particles, 'Mechs only because a star league ton is something that doesn't exist and makes no fricking sense and synthetic muscle myomer exists.
I get it, you didn't like the aesthetics, but muh realism is just a lack of imagination, because your "realism" is supported on thin legs of imagination and science fiction.
Pic somewhat related, Nachthreier is based

Nta, but I'm kind of curious why the official artwork would matter at all for the actual system.

You know, i didn't actually think to ask him such an obvious question.
Maybe he can't imagine a mech so he needs to see exactly what he wants on his player-side mech?
God only knows
Not like its hard to go to Retrograde and build your own.

Hilariously, his reply implies he hasn't read the actual rules, the shit you use to play the game proper, but what can you do eh

Moreover, you have insulted me multiple times in response to me giving my opinion on the art. With a fan that is willing to engage in such behavior, why would I expect anything more than insults from the rest of your community?

You can do better than this if you try, I know you can.

Yet when asked how art direction effects looking into a game, indirectly or otherwise, you started on setting and fluff instead. Regardless of other options available it comes off in a way you don't plan to check it out anyhow. So why bother replying at all?
Nta, just got here. And I've never understood the types to be held down by art, fluff, setting, or any of that for a system.

No thats the dumb thing, all the weapons have worse range than a bog standard AR and give you fricking heat for some reason. Its stupid as frick.

Simply put its a homebrewed wargame for mecha. Started with Gundam then other mecha like Escaflowne, Getter Robo and a bunch of other series were added in as well to get a comprehensive all out mecha war game.

>getting the mechs to scale

This sounds like a bad idea and an exercise in madness. Like isn't "I don't want to FRICK with the scale issues" one of the main reason SRW mostly uses SD designs

It's more a basing problem. It's one thing for small things to be fitted onto the same sized bases but bad if things frequently are too big, like some Gunpla and model kits.

Ah, so its SRW the game. That sounds fricking batshit insane.

Yeah it's pretty much SRW. It's fun regardless and its all free to look up.

Neat. Not too far off from the aliens power loader, assuming that whole demonstration wasn't outright faked.

BCG is an evolution from Giant Guardian Generation which was explicitly based on Super Robot Wars, a series of games about giant robots fighting each other and which draws from many many many giant robot anime (real and super). By stripping out the licensed material and tweaking some things, it's now one of the best (if not the best) mecha RPGs on the market.

Mechs have attack defense and hp stats, and then speed energy and systems.

You attack by rolling a d10 (with the ability to roll another d10 and keep the highest for each advantage you have or add +2 to the roll) you compare the number to the enemy defense and for each point over you do damage. Every turn you get an additional +1 to your damage roll up to +10 on turn 10.

Weapons don't modify your attack stat directly but instead give you conditional advantages or give your attack additional properties like aoe, increasing your defense, letting you attack two enemies etc.

You can move into someone else's zone when you attack and it creates a "duel", melee attacks get an advantage in a duel, and if your duel opponent tries to make an attack that doesn't include you you get to attack them for free. Instead of moving normally you can make a contested speed roll at the start of your turn when you're in a duel and the winner gets to move both participants in the direction they want.

You can increase your defense by spending an action to add your systems or speed to your defense, or by spending energy in response to an attack to use an active defense, which vary from just giving you a +5 bonus against a specific type of attack to giving you a +3 and also reflecting back damage or pushing back your opponent etc.

Characters have genre powers that are activated by a pool of points equal to their power level. They're similar to spells and can do anything from restoring HP and letting you tank lethal damage to powering your next attack by damaging yourself or creating a wall of cover.

The other big mechanic is maiming, your HP is split up into 4 layers and every time you lose a layer a portion of you mech is destroyed along with any upgrades or weapons that are stored in there. You also get a genre point to spend when you lose a layer which imo makes battles more dynamic than they would be if you just had all the point upfront.

Interesting. Thanks for that rundown!

Don’t forget about Tension, a universal bonus to rolls that everyone on the field gets and increases the longer a battle goes on, both shortening combats and making battles more dangerous the longer they run.
There’s a good number of weapons and upgrades that play with the tension bonus, and since it’s a number that increases gradually that means triggering those features is a matter of selecting the right timing.

Thats cause it is. Granted, i was in a gundam game that was theatre of the mind with a couple tweaks, but the basic game is still as fun regardless. The only craveat is that you have to make relfex your biggest stat but if thats not a problem then you can have so much fricking fun.

Nah, there was no homebrew when it came to the crit tables, its just been like 2 years since ive played and misremembered. Thanks for the correction.