>"the game only mentions all paradox info is fairytale to build up how Heath was actually right and they existed!"
>official site reminds us all this is bullshit even after confirming their existence
>"the game only mentions all paradox info is fairytale to build up how Heath was actually right and they existed!"
>official site reminds us all this is bullshit even after confirming their existence
yeah…the fact that they’re leaning so hard into the “this info came from a probably bullshit magazine” thing is one of the most obvious tells they’re actually imagined bullshit and the “”time travel”” is a red herring.
the bullshit cryptid magazine source only comes up for Paradox Pokemon for the opposite version you have.
No, moron, the magazine can be read in the academy's library, the pokedex mentions the articles of the opposite version BECAUSE you can't check the articles yourself like you can with your version's paradoxes. But all paradoxes have bullshit entries based on what Heath wrote in his book
It's an AU thing. All of the paradoxes are wrote about in shady magazines, In Scarlet version Heath wrote that he saw the past paradoxes and in Violet version he wrote he saw the future ones. So in Scarlet version the pokedex says Violet ones are fake since they don't exist there.
Can't you fricking read or something?
In Scarlet the past paradoxes are in shady magazines you find in the academy and the future paradoxes are in shady magazines referenced by the dex. In Violet the past paradoxes are in shady magazines referenced by the dex and the future paradoxes are in shady magazines you find in hte academy.
Occulture is the main source of info of the paradoxes in both games, for both "sets".
Timetravelgays don't play the games stop wasting your time.
Why are you just ignoring what he said?
time travel gays BTFO
Cope
Arrest
Not necessarily true != false
Dude, just give up. If they didn't want us to question it they wouldn't be so ambiguous about it.
Actual paid shill
It's the truth, you can't even refute it.
Why would a monster get significantly weaker over time to the point its evolved form is complete shit compared to how it used to be?
not as much need to be strong
That's how domestication works
Yea something like that would never happen IRL right
you don't need to be strong to fill an evolutionary niche
>magikarp exists and is stated to be weaker in the modern era than its ancestors weŕe
go fight an ape
The monkeys in my area are too buzzy playing basketball
I did and I won
powercreep only exists in game mechanics
Literally happened to us humans anon.
Stronger doesn't always mean more suited to survive.
Its sort of implied they aren't tougher because of their age, but because their proximity to the terra energy, of which there was a lot more in their time.
Maybe because they lived closer to a time period when the meteor that caused the crater touched down, and were irradiated with the stuff before it died down, to the point where in S/V it can only be found in the crater.
Also hence why theres so few types of primal mons, because it only affected the species which lived close by.
go find a t-rex and ask one
Some things are just better at surviving becoming "weaker" since they require less resources to survive and reproduce.
Look at rats vs panda bears.
Because being smaller takes less calories to function, can breed more often, is often harder to spot, ect.
There are multiple reasons why a species would get "weaker" because being the fittest =/= being the strongest.
Imaginationcucks WILL be DESTROYED in the dlc
>Y-you... *snif snif* ... you will see! *snif*
They will not be destroyed because their tinfoil theory doesn't even exist in GF radar so they won't make any attempt to even refute it.
So imaginationgays will keep seeing hidden messages and thinking it is the universe talking to them
Screencapped for later
I want the dlc to change the story so that it's neither imagination nor time travel but aliens like Clefable messing with reality.
>par·a·dox
>noun: a statement or proposition that, despite sound (or apparently sound) reasoning from acceptable premises, leads to a conclusion that seems senseless, logically unacceptable, or self-contradictory.
The thing that makes me think its imaginary shit is the pokedex entries. With UBs, honest to god ALIENS in pokemon, they were straightforward with the fact that they are ayyys, and later on we travel to Dimension Ayylmao which reinforces "holy shit aliens" and nobody questions it. There's no carrot on a stick or a guy questioning if the ayys are really ayys, and the Ultra Recon Squad along with the pokedex say "This crazy motherfricker right here? Yeah its an alien from Planet Ayylmao".
If its time travel, they'd just say "yooo this Jigglypuff came from the Precambrian era from a bajillion years ago and can break steel with its screams" or "Holy shit this mecha Hydreigon from the future has a bite force of 3 million PSI". But in both games they tiptoe with EVERY Paradox Pokemon and say "ohh this thing was sighted, I think, and it kinda looks like this thing from an old book or magazine maybe???". The Pokedex has NEVER been this shit at describing a pokemon in the history of pokemon PERIOD, no matter how out there or legendary it is. There's too much weird shit that makes me think it's just straightforward timetravel, and it'd be infinitely lame and make no fricking sense if they lampshaded the absurdity of time travel and acted super vague about it just to play it straight anyway.
Yea
>The thing that makes me think its imaginary shit is the pokedex entries.
Anon, that should make you think it ISN'T because Occulture is just bullshit.
Not to mention if Turo was inspired by that shit he wouldn't be focused on the future.
He has a volume of Occulture in the lighthouse.
Read them anon. There's only one entry that talks about the future and that's Thorns otherwise it's entirely about technology. There's no reason for Turo to think they're from the future based on Occulture.
nope but if the immagination theory occulture influenced the professors otherwise we wouldn't have the same fricking exact paradoxes from the magazine with the exact design description
That's horrible English anon but it explains why you think you're right.
The Scarlet and Violet books have unseen pages about the paradox pokemon, descriptions and all. Occulture embellished upon them with details like being a UFO or being billions of years old.
>Anon, that should make you think it ISN'T because Occulture is just bullshit.
But that's just it. Let me compare Pheromosa's Dex entry with Roaring Moon for a sec since they're both special version exclusive pokemon:
Pheromosa
>Sun: One of the dangerous Ultra Beasts, it has been spotted running across the land at terrific speeds.
>Moon: One of the Ultra Beasts. It refuses to touch anything, perhaps because it senses some uncleanness in this world.
Roaring Moon
>Scarlet: It is possible that this is the creature listed as Roaring Moon in an expedition journal that still holds many mysteries.
>Violet: According to an article in a dubious magazine, this Pokémon has some connection to a phenomenon that occurs in a certain region.
You can see with Pheromosa that while it is very special, there is atleast some factual information about what Pheromosa is and what its like, a fast clean freak wienerroach creature. And then with Roaring Moon it doesn't say jack shit about what it is or what it does, and Violet's only info on the thing comes from a "dubious magazine". There's no reason why they'd pussyfoot around with the pokemon from the past or the future when they have done even more outlandish pokemon. We are told straightforward that there are alien pokemon, fossil pokemon, dead pokemon, godly pokemon, time & space pokemon, and so on, but all of the sudden they put time travel into question? Especially when they did time travel in another game atleast 2 decades ago?
>Especially when they did time travel in another game atleast 2 decades ago?
Anon, we've literally never had a game about time travel like this let alone one that goes into real world style evolution that has only been hinted at in pokemon before.
Alright fine i'll concede over this since HGSS never went to the future, but still, why remix the same idea and act all weird over it? Especially when its just identical to already established pokemon except that they're made of metal or have more fangs? Whats the point of the mystery if we have the time machine clear as day, the professor demonstrating the time travel, and the creatures supposedly from another era roaming around? Its a waste of time waving a carrot on a stick if the answer is a straightforward "time travel is real" instead of a plot trying to imply there's more that doesnt meet the eye. Why think about Time Travel itself instead of WHAT causes Time Travel?
>We have LITERALLY never had anything like Paradox Pokemon before.
Once a few generations ago, we had nothing like Ultra Beasts before and everyone was raving about how weird they were. And yet we still were told they came from another planet across space and nothing more or less than that. SV and the Professor already says that the Paradox Pokemon come from the past or future, and they could leave it at that with no Heath bullshit or dubious magazine trite. But instead they walk back on it, even ingame Arven questions the existence of Time Travel rather than the physics involved in that phenomenon. Whats the fricking problem with just saying it as it is if its JUST time travel?
>and they could leave it at that with no Heath bullshit or dubious magazine trite.
Dude the magazines existed to make you think the paradox pokemon were just made up bullshit, that's why you can find them BEFORE encountering the Paradox pokemon with exception to Donphan who's magazine is found with some of the others in the academy.
In other words the magazines are the red herring.
The weird thing i don't see people saying anything is that there is not a single paradox mon that isn't in these magazines or the heath book... You would think the machine would catch a undiscovered pokemon but no it's already domented somewhere for some "reason"...
documented* not domented.
>You would think the machine would catch a undiscovered pokemon but no it's already domented somewhere for some "reason"...
That's the paradox anon.
It's the classic bootstrap.
You're seeing it as Heath being the first person to discover them but in reality it was the professors and the events from the future influence the past which causes the future event. See? Paradox.
So they want you to believe its fake first and then see its real? Of all the sharkjumping bullshit man, its fricking TIME TRAVEL WHO DOESNT SUSPEND THEIR DISBELIEF WITH FRICKING TIME TRAVEL ARGHHHHH
I FRICKING HATE POKEMON PLOT SO FRICKING MUCH THERE WAS NO REASON TO DO THIS
>So they want you to believe its fake first and then see its real?
Yes? That's how red herrings work.
Frick time travel man.
>>So they want you to believe its fake first and then see its real?
Then why use Arven to make you doubt about time travel again?
>it's fake!
>no it's real!
>huh it weird might be fake..
If this is what game freak wanted then this is the schizo nobel of writing.
>Then why use Arven to make you doubt about time travel again?
They aren't. The point of Arven's comment wasn't to make you doubt time travel but to show that the story isn't over yet and that more time shenanigans will occur.
It's called foreshadowing.
>that the story isn't over yet
Yes
>and that more time shenanigans will occur.
kek you wish
It's not that I doubt Time Travel could be a thing or anything, but if this truly is the case then we might have a winrar for the most convoluted, batshit-insane sharkjumping horseshit of a pokemon plot ever. We've had moronic villains, bones and skin of a plotline, and flat characters in a pokemon game before, but this shit right here? Completely deranged, even for Gamefreak. Time Travel is fricking stupid and should've never been a trope, especially if they deliberately try to make it even MORE confusing than it should be.
It's funny when you think the previous game PLA was time travel game but isn't as confusing as SV plot is.
That's because PLA isn't a time travel game. Sure you go back but it's not something that's very important.
Also SV isn't confusing if you pay attention.
>That's because PLA isn't a time travel game.
Stopped reading here. Literally the first seconds of the game is time travel.
Yeah I kind of figured you wouldn't understand just by your posts in this thread.
It's not that hard to understand, you're brought to the past but time travel otherwise has nothing to do with the story. You very well could have been a traveller that came by boat and the story could have gone on as it does.
No one knows you, You're still a stranger, you still have a proficiency with pokemon etc etc.
But the you have a game like Chrono Trigger where the plot literally doesn't work without time travel.
>literally the vortex in the sky is called space time distortion
>Ingo is from the future
>player is from the future
>space time distortion with pokemon from the future in the game spawns the entire time
Plot isn't about time travel because?
Timetravelgays think the problem with their scenario is just the existence of time travel overall, not how it makes no sense in this game.
This tbh, i have no problem with time travel, PLA was a good game and i liked the time distortion spawns! I just believe it's imagination because of how weird and confusing the whole time machine, third legendary, herba mystica, paradox pokemon and ruinous pokemon plots are... Imagination is like a glue that makes everything have a logic. No i don't think paradox(contradiction) should be the answer, it needs to have a reason behind it.
>Imagination is like a glue that makes everything have a logic.
Huh?
The imagination theory relies on discarding logic. That's why it's called the imagination theory, it's a mocking title.
>The imagination theory relies on discarding logic
Funny that you say this when time travel gays are the ones that use the most headcanon reasons like "oh a master ball can go to the past to where Heath was and make a time loop paradox!", while imagination gays are the ones that use in game text as evidence like Arven and the magazines.
>like "oh a master ball can go to the past to where Heath was and make a time loop paradox!",
I don't even know how to answer this because no one has ever said that's what happened 100% not to mention they didn't use master balls exclusive as shown by your Koraidon which is in a regular pokeball.
>while imagination gays are the ones that use in game text as evidence like Arven and the magazines.
Which isn't true at all.
With Arven it requires ignoring what he said to claim that he's deconfirming time travel.
And with the magazines you people assume it's true when the game clearly states its false.
>I don't even know how to answer this because no one has ever said that's what happened 100% not to mention they didn't use master balls exclusive as shown by your Koraidon which is in a regular pokeball.
Yous shoud have visited old threads about time travel vs imagination then, this theory about time loop paradox was one of them
It's funny you say that because the anon you're replying to is probably one of the only timegays left in these threads. You can tell because he always brings forth the same few bullshit talking points.
>Yous shoud have visited old threads about time travel vs imagination then, this theory about time loop paradox was one of them
I have, no one ever said it was 100% fact but just a plausible explanation.
It's only imaginationgays that ever try to pass it off as a fact to discredit the opposition which of course is their only tactic because nothing in the game supports imagination.
Who is saying anything about 100%? It was one of the time gays theories. Theories are not about being 100% is just conjecture.
>nothing in the game supports imagination
Except when it clearely tells you one of the paradoxes was imagined.
It's the most logical answer that explains everything so it makes sense.
Not him but this guy
, I think just saying
>"Time Machine (TM)" is fuelled by the Third Legendary, which takes people's desires and makes them physically manifest, time travel was never real and terastallizing is just "wishing" your pokemon was a certain type
Is a lot easier to digest than
>Time Travel is real, Heath sees the pokemon from the past or future because the third legendary likes to dick with him, they disappear for 200 years and then come back with the Time Machine that Sada/Turo made with meme crystals. Said meme crystals are able to make time travel and terastallizing as well because ????
Time Travel is just charged with headache inducing scenarios, especially when it goes so far back in time. Theres a reason why its always shit when introduced late in a story, or if it isn't one and done from the very beginning.
This, if we've had multiple instances of time travel in the past but they were open and shut cases, in SV you have to make up so much shit to say it's time travel and even argue against the game which goes out of its way to say the claims about time travel are dubious.
Oh I'm not denying that. It's very simple to understand because of the fluidity of imagination and subtle reality warping, basically it can make sense because you can just go
>they imagined it so it happened!
To fill any plot holes with the theory granted that means it doesn't really hold up under scrutiny or have any real consistency between believers.
Thats why you have imaginationgays saying that the time machine is an imagination printer or was an imagined time machine which would just make it a time machine.
In other words, while it seems simple to the, well, simple minded, it becomes increasingly more complicated when thought it put into it.
Meanwhile time travel is just clear cut, the only issue brought up by it is the fact that that Paradox pokemon are in the past which is conveniently solved by the fact that there's a usable time machine to solve the paradox.
It's very simple.
I don't understand how you can criticize imagine theory for saying it can be used to fill plotholes and then immediately end your post by saying it's a time machine, so the blatant plothole so big that the game calls it out can be fixed because it's a time machine.
>I don't understand how you can criticize imagine theory for saying it can be used to fill plotholes and then immediately end your post by saying it's a time machine
Because you're not reading what I'm saying.
The imagination theory is used to fill plot holes but it creates others which means more headcanon needs to be used to fill more plotholes.
That's the problem with the theory.
>so the blatant plothole so big that the game calls it out can be fixed because it's a time machine.
Yes?
It's not even a real plothole.
>The imagination theory is used to fill plot holes but it creates others
Like what?
>It's not even a real plothole.
Why would anyone in the story send a Pokemon back to Heath's time, and then retrieve it?
>Like what?
The common one is the paradox pokemon 200 years ago.
The time travel theory has it simply be that the time machine was used at some point. Most likely in the DLC.
The imagination theory claims that the expedition was faked in its entirety and heath never actually saw them with the professors bringing them to life when they went into the crater. But then you have Heath knowing about the other details of the crater not to mention the clear pictures like the markings. There's absolutely zero chance that it was faked.
Then there's the fact that there was the expedition to build the labs 80 years ago where presumably nothing happened and everything went off without a hitch. No imaginary pokemon, possession or anything just normal construction which raises the question as to why that was the case which imagination theorists ignore because it doesn't fit with their theory.
>Why would anyone in the story send a Pokemon back to Heath's time, and then retrieve it?
We don't know, it's most likely going to be explained in the DLC. That's why no one outright says that's definitely the case and just puts it out there as a plausible scenario.
Also with imagination the plot can't really go anywhere. There's no real danger to be had once you find and catch the third legend and it would be hard to justify being able to find more pokemon in Paldea just like that, the last time we had something like that was ORAS environmental changes and that was equally as stupid because its an island region.
>The imagination theory claims that the expedition was faked in its entirety and heath never actually saw them
So you have made up some other shitty theory to make your time travel duckers look more plausible? pathetic Black person.
Real Imagination theory claims what:
>Expedition have been set up to investigate the Crater
>Beforehand there was lots of myths surrounding crater (Greedy Paldean King always sent his people to investigate it and gather some treasure but no one have been returned, this is what you can learn from History Classes in game btw)
>Expedition members feared the Crater and possible monstrous creatures what living in it
>Expedition members also believed what there is some treasure at the bottom of the Crater
>All that was granted to them (by unknown mysterious third legendary what we will discover in DLC) in the Crater in the form of monstrous Pokémon and magical herbs what cure everything and make you stronger + magical crystals what makes your Pokémon stronger
>Heath then writes a book about all that
>That book became best seller because of how bizarre all that was
>Professor Sada/Turo had that book as a kid and was absolutely in love with it
>Professor Sada/Turo believed what monstrous Pokémon described in that book was no other than Pokémon from past/future
>Professor ventured to Crater themselves and started to develop time machine (because they was convinced what monstrous Pokémon was from different time)
>They actually managed to make a time machine and it actually gave exactly these monsters to them, because again - whatever you believe into will be granted(by that unknown disk third legendary) as long as you inside of the Crater.
Thanks for proving my point. You people can't stay on track with your own theory, you've just made an entirely new branch completely different from what was being said by this anon
who claimed the journal was fake.
You can't possibly be this stupid.
>No arguments
Lmao go have a nice day timetravelcuck
How is two people having different takes on imagination theory disproving anything? Everyone agrees Heath made the paradoxes up, I personally don't think the 3rd legend imprinted the idea of the paradox mons in people's heads, but that's not really the point since the bottom line is that they're fake.
>How is two people having different takes on imagination theory disproving anything?
Are you being serious right now? It shows that the game isn't being taken into account and that there's nk logical consistency.
The same can't be said for time travel because everyone who believes it just follows the game 100% with no headcanon.
>The same can't be said for time travel because everyone who believes it just follows the game 100% with no headcanon
kek thanks for the laugh. I didn't know that the time loop paradox was 100% said by an npc in game and not something that an anon said about time travel.
See
No one says its true, just plausible.
There's a world of difference between those two words.
>The same can't be said for time travel because everyone who believes it just follows the game 100% with no headcanon.
Timegays literally cannot explain
without ample headcanon. If we account entirely for the stuff we find ingame then time travel makes no sense.
It's not headcanon to bring up the fact that there's an actual time machine that can be used to provide a plausible explanation.
Meanwhile there's no way to explain the same thing with imagination.
Literally the only npc in the entire game that believed in time travel was the professor. No, Arven didn't, Clavell didn't, the Sada/Turo friends didn't(the ones that abandoned him), not even Heath said anything about time travel homosexualry and only called the paradox pokemon as "monsters from area zero"... It's one NPC agains't the entire fricking game. This isn't enough proof for me that he is right about the time machine working as intended if he is even using Heath's old schematics.
>the Sada/Turo friends didn't(the ones that abandoned him),
You do realise they were abandoned in the time BETWEEN the first Raidon and the last, right?
It also wasn't due to lack of belief but rather the professor's growing insanity.
This is all in game.
>not even Heath said anything about time travel homosexualry and only called the paradox pokemon as "monsters from area zero"...
I don't see why you would think this is evidence if they didn't have a time machine back then to think of the idea, which would also put a Thorn in the side of the imagination theory since they wouldn't imagine past and future pokemon down there.
Also look at your image, they literally call them pokemon.
>we began to catch glimpses of mysterious pokemon
>It's one NPC agains't the entire fricking game.
Not really.
Sada and Turo believe it's time travel.
The AIs believe it's time travel.
The pokemon are classified as paradoxes commonly associated with time travel.
The themes of the pokemon being past and future.
Arven foreshadows more time travel.
Everything is overtly saying time travel which you're denying.
Meanwhile the only thing about imagination is is the Suicune/Virizion page which of course can be explained by the third legend.
>Sada and Turo believe it's time travel.
Yes
>The AIs believe it's time travel.
? You know the AI was made to be a professor "clone" right?
>The pokemon are classified as paradoxes commonly associated with time travel.
Paradox is just a contradiction which these pokémon really are. It has nothing to do with time loop time travel.
>The themes of the pokemon being past and future
Yes because the person that made the "machine" believed in time travel.
>Arven foreshadows more time travel.
Arven is just as confused as everyone else about these pokémon and is the only npc that said it doesn't make any sense.
>Everything is overtly saying time travel which you're denying
Lol ok Sada/Turo
>You know the AI was made to be a professor "clone" right?
If you had been paying attention to the game, while they're based on the professor they do have their own thoughts separate to them which is why pic related can happen.
>Paradox is just a contradiction which these pokémon really are.
A paradox is a specific type of contradiction commonly associated with time travel because of the variety of paradoxes.
I'm not saying it's exclusive to time travel but a very common link.
Going back to imagination however there's no contradiction whatsoever time or otherwise, something brought to life via imagination is just alive.
>Arven is just as confused as everyone else about these pokémon and is the only npc that said it doesn't make any sense.
It's called foreshadowing. He's literally hinting to the use of time travel to explain the paradox the pokemon are named after.
>while they're based on the professor they do have their own thoughts separate to them which is why pic related can happen.
the ai only splits off when its revealed the professor is fricking insane, they're still a clone of the professor and hold all their knowledge and believes, to a lesser extent
>Going back to imagination however there's no contradiction whatsoever
the pokemon exist despite not being real is enough of a paradox to justify the classification
>He's literally hinting to the use of time travel
this is cope, it's funny you say this because he actually hints directly to imagination theory because he explicitly says "they even managed to make it a reality!" which lines up 1:1 with imagination theory.
>the ai only splits off when its revealed the professor is fricking insane
Anon, the professor already went off the deep end before the AI was made. That's what made the other leave after Arven was born.
>the pokemon exist despite not being real is enough of a paradox to justify the classification
Except they are real that's the problem, there's no contradiction to their existence if they're brought to life. They just exist via imagination.
>"they even managed to make it a reality!" which lines up 1:1 with imagination theory.
No, its a saying referring to hard work and determination. Making your dreams a reality doesn't literally mean making it real.
Also they already have a wishing pokemon.
>Anon, the professor already went off the deep end before the AI was made. That's what made the other leave after Arven was born
And? The point is that the AI is a copy of the professor, if they didn't believe in the professor or time travel they wouldnt have gone in the """"time machine""""" at the end of the game. they held the same beliefs as the professor, they just drew a line that the real professor crosses
> its a saying referring to hard work and determination
okay?
>Making your dreams a reality doesn't literally mean making it real.
but thats exactly what the professor does in a very literal sense
>Also they already have a wishing pokemon.
and we have two pokemon with time powers, whats your point?
>The point is that the AI is a copy of the professor
Yes?
What you don't seem to understand is that once it starts thinking for itself it stops being a copy and becomes its own entity that has its own thoughts and feelings.
>if they didn't believe in the professor or time travel they wouldnt have gone in the """"time machine""""" at the end of the game
Which brings us to another issue, if it wasn't a time machine then they wouldn't have disappeared. Even if you think it was a crystal it would leave a mechanical husk behind that couldn't be absorbed into the third legend.
>but thats exactly what the professor does in a very literal sense
No they don't. There's nothing in the game that suggests they just wished something into reality even the AI says it was built and hints that the crystals gave the professor the knowledge to build it.
>and we have two pokemon with time powers
No we don't.
We have one that IS time, Dialga
And we have one that can TRAVEL through time but not control it, Celebi.
It's the same with Hoopa and Palkia mind you.
The third legend and jirachi would have the exact same classification/gimmick whatever you want to call it.
What we don't have however is a pokemon of knowledge.
>No we don't.
>We have one that IS time, Dialga
>And we have one that can TRAVEL through time but not control it, Celebi.
NTA but being able to time travel IS a time ability... Dialga made time itself, it's just different levels of power.
>NTA but being able to time travel IS a time ability... Dialga made time itself, it's just different levels of power.
Yes, it's a time ability but not time control.
There's different tiers of power.
Again, same thing. The representation of knowledge isn't the same as having knowledge.
>Again, same thing. The representation of knowledge isn't the same as having knowledge.
"when Uxie first emerged, humans gained the knowledge needed to solve problems and improved their quality of life"
What kind of knowledge are you even talking about at this point? wtf
Knowledge of Time, the Past and Future, not Human Knowledge, which is more equatable to Wisdom.
>No we don't. We have one that IS time, Dialga And we have one that can TRAVEL through time but not control it, Celebi.
With that logic the time machine doesn't have time powers because it can't control time kek. You guys are funny as frick.
>What we don't have however is a pokemon of knowledge.
Dude Uxie
>What you don't seem to understand is that once it starts thinking for itself it stops being a copy and becomes its own entity that has its own thoughts and feelings.
...that are based off the professor's thoughts and desires that of which believe in time travel, play the game, even though the ai disagrees with the prof they have the same wish overall
>Even if you think it was a crystal it would leave a mechanical husk behind
not if it was 100% created by the disk legend, which is exactly what it was, as it appears suddenly one day after the professor wishes for it. if there a log that says "im gonna make an AI clone of myself" you'd be right, but there isnt, just the prof wishing for a double and getting exactly that, there was no actual reason for the ai to be a 1:1 clone of the professor down to the fricking outfit (what do they gain from having it be a guy who walks and talks and not just being confined to a computer or even some floating bit like a rotomphone) unless it was a wish granted down to the smallest detail
> even the AI says it was built
The ai also says its impossible for humans to build it, if it was built it was by the wish machine which also explains why it got re-absorbed and turned into crystals
>We have one that IS time, Dialga
>And we have one that can TRAVEL through time but not control it, Celebi.
...but both can time travel, kind of like how both wishmon and jirachi grant wishes, though wishmon also has the tera energy stuff going on.
>The third legend and jirachi would have the exact same classification/gimmick whatever you want to call it.
okay so we have two wish pokemon like we have two time pokemon, still not seeing the issue here
>The ai also says its impossible for humans to build it, if it was built it was by the wish machine which also explains why it got re-absorbed and turned into crystals
NTA but he said humans don't have the knowledge to build it not that they couldn't outright and it says the body is mechanical. If it was reabsorbed we'd have a mechanical Sada left.
if it was made from the wish machine it doesnt really matter what its body was made out of, the paradox pokemon are also mechanical
>the paradox pokemon are also mechanical
Why is it imaginationgays accuse time travel as being headcanon then say dumb shit like this
Oh sorry I mean the future paradoxes, not the dinos, obviously.
>Why is it imaginationgays accuse time travel as being headcanon then say dumb shit like this
t. scarletgay
>if it was made from the wish machine it doesnt really matter what its body was made out of,
Which it wasn't. Its 100% mechanical.
Unless you're trying to say that everything regardless of being imagined can just be absorbed.
what if they're made up by tera crystals imagine if they all look cristalized in the inside like an ore
forgot to add
>there's no contradiction to their existence
the very nature of their existence is contradictory since they came from nowhere and are based off of versions of pokemon that dont exist
>the very nature of their existence is contradictory since they came from nowhere and are based off of versions of pokemon that dont exist
That's not a contradiction. That just means they didn't exist before they did Also you're not saying that they came from nowhere but rather the minds of people made manifest via the third legend.
>If you had been paying attention to the game, while they're based on the professor they do have their own thoughts separate to them which is why pic related can happen.
Do you even know what an AI is you moron? It's an algorithim that you feed information and then it can learn more information later by itself. Of course it was going to learn more because it's a fricking AI!
>A paradox is a specific type of contradiction commonly associated with time travel because of the variety of paradoxes.
"a situation or statement that seems impossible or is difficult to understand because it contains two opposite facts or characteristics"
It's a contradiction you moron!
>sense.
It's called foreshadowing. He's literally hinting to the use of time travel to explain the paradox the pokemon are named after.
Yes it's foreshadowing about the DLC is going to continue the story and have nothing to do about confirming time travel just questioning
>It's an algorithim that you feed information and then it can learn more information later by itself. Of course it was going to learn more because it's a fricking AI!
And how exactly does this help your argument? Ignoring the fact that you're applying real world logic to fiction this just means it would be time travel since the AI didn't discover the wish mechanic.
Not to mention the "imagination" machine would have ceased since there's no mind to feed it.
>"a situation or statement that seems impossible or is difficult to understand because it contains two opposite facts or characteristics"
Every time I read your posts I always have to grab the ridge of my nose in disbelief because you clearly don't understand English, I'm saying paradoxes are commonly associated with time travel not that they're exclusive to time travel but that idea is clearly beyond your understanding.
Anyway, how about this. If you're so sure an imaginary pokemon would be a paradox explain it. What about it makes it's existence contradictory.
>Yes it's foreshadowing about the DLC is going to continue the story and have nothing to do about confirming time travel just questioning
Now you're just parroting arguments used against imagination swapping imagination for time travel.
>Ignoring the fact that you're applying real world logic to fiction
Dude AI is AI why make headcanon about AI now that works in a diferent way wtf?
>I'm saying paradoxes are commonly associated with time travel not that they're exclusive to time travel but that idea is clearly beyond your understanding.
Paradoxes are many and are always contradictions in logic. Stop being a moron!
>Now you're just parroting arguments used against imagination swapping imagination for time travel.
The frick do you mean moron? Arven said it's weird and we will probably know more in the DLC. There is nothing there.
>why make headcanon about AI now that works in a diferent way wtf?
Says the anon trying to equate it to a real world AI without any evidence it functions as such. Are you actually going to make an argument and refer to the actual points or are you just going to scream headcanon and pretend like you're right?
>Paradoxes are many and are always contradictions in logic
No one is contesting that, but the term paradox is commonly associated with time travel, you won't be able to find a time travel story that doesn't mention some kind of paradox.
Once again, I am NOT saying that it's exclusive to time travel I am saying that it's COMMONLY ASSOCIATED with it.
I don't know how I can say this to you in a way that your clearly simple mind can understand.
>Arven said it's weird and we will probably know more in the DLC. There is nothing there
Anon, from the start people have been using Arven's clear foreshadowing of a bootstrap paradox to disprove the imagination theory.
If you don't know what a bootstrap is then as much as I hate bringing it up Doctor who actually has a good explanation of it.
Now I urge you, take the time to construct a proper response.
>Bootstrap paradox
Thank you for proving why time travel can't possibly be involved.
So time travel can't be involved despite the game not only driving that point home but also hinting at it in the post game?
I give up, I'm going to enjoy when it isn't imagination and you people melt down.
>Says the anon trying to equate it to a real world AI without any evidence it functions as such. Are you actually going to make an argument and refer to the actual points or are you just going to scream headcanon and pretend like you're right?
The only one saying this AI doesn't work like an AI is you and IT IS A FRICKING headcanon. The AI isn't a living being and like i said before it learns by feeding information.
>but the term paradox is commonly associated with time travel
For YOU
>If you don't know what a bootstrap is then as much as I hate bringing it up Doctor who actually has a good explanation of it.
Oh i see you are the time gay that believe in the time loop thing kek.
>The only one saying this AI doesn't work like an AI is you and IT IS A FRICKING headcanon
You really don't get it do you. You're the one assuming that it works like a real AI.
That's headcanon not supported by the game.
>For YOU
For literally everyone. Take a court room for instance, you're not going to see someone say that a statement is paradoxical, they're just going to say contradictory/contradicts despite paradox also working.
Why am I even bringing up court rooms as if any of you have so much as watched Judge Judy let alone stepped into a real one.
nta but the AI says a computer uses the Prof's memories to calculate actions. If the Professor thought time travel was real, so would the AI.
>If the Professor thought time travel was real, so would the AI.
Yes, at first but the AI does say that it has its own thoughts.
Basically it uses Sada as a template to grow from which is why it can't comprehend why Sada would allow the time machine to be left on.
>Arven foreshadows more time travel.
Arven says time travel makes no sense, you only think this because more time travel is the only way the plot holes can be justified, which shits on the rest of the story
>Everything is overtly saying time travel which you're denying.
only the professor says this, the rest of the game is about treasure and stuff
We really need to make a big compilation image of all the times the game says treasure, wishes and imagination because they really do harp on these themes.
>We really need to make a big compilation image of all the times the game says treasure, wishes and imagination
I mean, sure if you want to embarrass yourself. For starters treasure has nothing to do with wishes to reality in and of itself.
Wishes the game practically drives home don't just happen on their own and requires hard work to achieve which the imagination theory goes against.
Then imagination in the context of the theory only has the one page.
For starters treasure has nothing to do with wishes to reality in and of itself.
The entire theme of the game is finding out what you want, what you wish, what you treasure, and making your adventure in your own way to fulfill those wishes. It's even what destroyed the Paldean Empire thousands years ago, the seek for people's treasure which is just something they believed and wanted to be hidden in the crater.
>The entire theme of the game is finding out what you want, what you wish, what you treasure, and making your adventure in your own way to fulfill those wishes.
Yes, not by wishing for it out of the blue but by working at a desire and putting your heart and soul into it.
You work hard to become a champion.
Arven works hard researching the herba mystica to save his pokemon
Penny and the rest of team star worked hard to enact their anti-bully plan.
None of them just wished really really hard to achieve their dream or find their treasure.
>It's even what destroyed the Paldean Empire thousands years ago,
The treasures of ruin did that and they didn't even come from Paldea but pokechina.
The professor also worked really hard, they dedicated their life to the book and made the tera orbs just to get more funding to stay in area zero, where's the problem?
>The professor also worked really hard, they dedicated their life to the book and made the tera orbs just to get more funding to stay in area zero,
Exactly? Anon the whole point is that there is no wishing or dreams to reality machine. Everyone had to put effort in to do it.
>where's the problem?
The problem is that it doesn't support imagination but you're acting like it does.
The professor worked hard to get their imagination machine, still lines up with imagination theory, it's not like anyone could walk down there since the player had the strongest trainer in paldea, a super hacker and some cook guy.
The professor never knew it was an imagination machine and researched it for years, so your point is moot innit
>It's not headcanon to bring up the fact that there's an actual time machine
A time machine that doesn't make sense, correct.
>that can be used to provide a plausible explanation
CAN be used, so it only makes sense with headcanon. A time machine can do literally anything, but what matters is that the story deliberately puts rules in place that makes it so it couldn't do what timegays are arguing it did, and the only way a time machine can make sense is if we ignore these rules and let the time machine godmod through every conceivable plot hole. Basically what this anon said
, if they were playing it straight there'd be no need to have source after source in the game saying it's bullshit and that time travel makes no sense.
Imagination makes sense, Heath made it up and the professor made the tera-fueled machine to make his wishful thinking of time traveling iguanas real, just like it got a fricking AI too advanced to be made by humans. Time travel makes no sense because we know the times the time machine has been used for a Miraidon, and none of those include sending one to 200 years ago, so Heath couldn't see Iron Serpent like he said he would.
Learn to read (and think).
>and the professor made the tera-fueled machine to make his wishful thinking
So now the machine just makes pokemon.
>Time travel makes no sense because we know the times the time machine has been used for a Miraidon, and none of those include sending one to 200 years ago,
Unless it hasn't happened yet. You know because it's a time machine that they didn't destroy.
>now the machine just makes pokemon
This has been the case since forever
>Unless it hasn't happened yet.
Can't happen because I have both Koraidon in my team, moron.
>it's a time machine
... that has only been used to retrieve Koraidon/Miraidon twice. Once for our ride Koraidon/Miraidon and another one for the violent Koraidon/Miraidon. Heath's Koraidon/Miraidon? Doesn't come from the "time machine".
It's funny how timetravelcucks think a time machine is a jack of all trades, with zero rules nor limitations. No sense? It's a time machine! Impossible? It's a time machine! Not used to allow my theory to happen? It's a time machine!
>It's funny how timetravelcucks think a time machine is a jack of all trades, with zero rules nor limitations. No sense? It's a time machine! Impossible? It's a time machine! Not used to allow my theory to happen? It's a time machine!
What the frick are you talking about? All anyone is saying that the time machine can be used to explain the paradox which is literally the only "problem" with time travel.
There are so many problems with time travel, starting from their designs, it wasn't an accident that a modern magnet, pokeball and mega evolution that was only created 3000 years ago were part of the group.
Oh shit, WAS mega evolution only from 3000 years ago? that btfos time travel right there
They already get BTFO by Slither Wing not having any fossil
Seeing Voltorb mimics Apricorns, it seems okay that Amoongus-like creatures could also exist.
That wasn't mimicking apricorns or anything else from back then?
>starting from their designs
Anon, the designs present an issue with the imagination theory because they're so uniform.
>that was only created 3000 years ago were part of the group.
Uh, who said either of those things were created 3000 years ago? Mega evolution in particular comes from meteors and now with SV we have the earliest meteor strike at 1 million years ago. Not to mention Mega Aerodactyl is said to be what it originally looked like in the past.
Also, Magnezone existed in the wild in Arceus which is far from modern times.
>Mega evolution in particular comes from meteors and now with SV we have the earliest meteor strike at 1 million years ago. Not to mention Mega Aerodactyl is said to be what it originally looked like in the past.
Mega evolution was created 3000 years ago with the firing of the ultimate weapon.
During Arceus at least there were humans, unlike with supposedly Sandy Shocks.
>Mega evolution was created 3000 years ago with the firing of the ultimate weapon.
No, that's headcanon that wasn't even the first recorded instance because that was technically Mega Ray which AZ was there to watch during the second coming of Kyogre and Groudon.
Anyway, it charged a bunch of meteors sure, but any meteor can be charged with any energy as shown in ORAS with the giant meteor that created sootopolis absorbing Primal energy to become a giant keystone and the geothermal energy turning the meteor from meteor falls into one.
That means that potentially mega evolution could have happened in prehistory without being recorded.
>unlike with supposedly Sandy Shocks.
Which is headcanon because we don't know anything of the era they come from. Also still a moot point, this is the pokemon world, not the real world and there's nothing to say that they didn't exist first.
ORAS is a different timeline.
Except they can't. Two Miraidon were retrieved and none of them went to Heath's age. Time machine or not, there's no Miraidon in Heath's time
Without Primal Reversion, they will continue to exist as Cyclizar instead of Miraidon
Black person it's a
TIME
MACHINE
If you use it in the future you can influence the past, and this is literally setting up a grander back to the future style time line altering story.
>links to my post
>lies
I never said the entire trip was fake you illiterate cuck. You said the entire thing was real and I pointed out the fake info, no more, no less.
Black person what? There's so much headcanon here
>All that was granted to them
This isn't true. Everyone who went into the crater before Heath's team was never heard from again.
>Heath then writes a book about all that
There's literally no other record of expeditions into the crater until Heath's. He can't write about something he didn't see and then have it still be accurate. That's fricking stupid.
Sada/Turo believed what monstrous Pokémon described in that book was no other than Pokémon from past/future
Which is fricking headcanon. Only Occulture says that they're from the past or future and if they were influenced by that Turo wouldn't be obsessed with the future. There's literally only one magazine that even says anything about the future and its about thorns.
Bundle is an ancient machine
Treads is a super advanced alien weapon
Hands is a human that underwent reconstructive cyborg surgery
Jugulus happened when a Hydreigon fricked a computer
Moth is a UFO
And Valiant is a Robot Mewtwo Frankenstein.
There's absolutely no logical reason why Turo would think
>hm all of these things must be from the future
When nothing says they're from the future which lines up with time travel because that theory suggests that the third legend influenced them into time travel based on the fact that they suddenly started talking about it out of the blue.
ventured to Crater themselves and started to develop time machine (because they was convinced what monstrous Pokémon was from different time)
They didn't even go into the crater explicitly for a time machine why would they even go in thinking it would help them make a time machine at all when it's still a barely documented area and no one knew what the crystals could really do UNTIL the professor and their crew ventured in and developed the Tera Orb.
>because again - whatever you believe into will be granted(by that unknown disk third legendary) as long as you inside of the Crater.
Which is fricking stupid because we never see that happen. Ever.
You can't even use the AI because the professors never asked for an AI they asked for another version of themselves, if it brought believes into reality then there would just be another one of them.
It's a machine that they built with their own two hands that's powered by the crystals.
God its like you people don't even play the games.
The imagination theory says that Heath didn't fake the expedition, he faked what he encountered because the drawings in the floor and some giant crystals weren't good enough to sell. The imaginary pokemon weren't there until the professors made the imagination machine powered by the tera crystals by the third legendary, so it makes perfect sense they weren't there. The possession happened 200 years ago because the third legendary thought Heath could build the imagination machine and gave him the blueprints and formulas, but he didn't understand any of it so it didn't happen again until the professors arrived.
Except the schematics are in his handwriting and he doesn't remember it. So what? Did the 3rd legendary also forge Heath's writing?
What are you trying to say? I'm saying he got possessed and wrote it while possessed with his own handwriting. The 3rd legendary doesn't have to forge it.
>Did the 3rd legendary also forge Heath's writing?
No, Heath was probably just possessed and made to write it while unconscious.
>The imagination theory claims that the expedition was faked in its entirety
Pathetic timetravelgays can't keep making shit up huh
>The imagination theory claims that the expedition was faked in its entirety
Take your meds, schizophrenic delusions aren't healthy.
>the expedition to build the labs 80 years ago where presumably nothing happened and everything went off without a hitch
Go play the game, moron.
In their journal Sada/Turo say they've encountered the third legendary and used it's power to build the tera orb, it's one of the main reasons why they decide to stay in area zero and build the lab in the first place.
>We don't know
So you're just admitting that time travel doesn't make any sense but think the dlc is going to magically fix it with more time travel even though the "time machine" was turned off at the of the game.
>Also with imagination the plot can't really go anywhere. There's no real danger to be had once you find and catch the third legend
That's a problem how?
>it would be hard to justify being able to find more pokemon in Paldea just like that
Completely irrelevant.
You can catch multiple Eternatus in swsh.
lore =/= gameplay
>In their journal Sada/Turo say they've encountered the third legendary and used it's power to build the tera orb, it's one of the main reasons why they decide to stay in area zero and build the lab in the first place.
What?
Have you even played the game?
The professor's crew didn't build the labs. That happened 80 years before, they weren't even born yet when it happened.
>So you're just admitting that time travel doesn't make any sense
No? Where did you even get that idea from?
By that same logic your own theory doesn't make sense because it's being saved for the dlc.
>That's a problem how?
Are you really trying to say that a five minute excursion into the crater to find the third legend is adequate for what's most likely going to be a $20-$30 dlc?
>Completely irrelevant.
Of course its relevant, they're obviously going to add new pokemon to the dlc.
>The professor's crew didn't build the labs
Then why did you bring it up as an argument against imagination?
That makes your argument even worse since it has nothing to with the story even if it is time travel.
>your own theory doesn't make sense
Timetravelgays have to use the DLC as shield for the holes in their theory, imaginationchads used their theory to speculate about the DLC.
>five minute excursion into the crater to find the third legend
Why do you assume they won't add new areas?
>they're obviously going to add new pokemon to the dlc
which they can't do if it's time travel because the machine has been turned off.
>Then why did you bring it up as an argument against imagination
Because its the second recorded excursion into area Zero and nothing happened. No paradox mon, no lost crews, nothing. It, according to what we know in game, went off without a hitch.
If imagination was a factor and it passively generates things based on the wants and desires of those in the crater something would have happened.
Understand?
>That makes your argument even worse since it has nothing to with the story even if it is time travel.
At this point you're just saying you can follow a conversation properly.
>Timetravelgays have to use the DLC as shield for the holes in their theory, imaginationchads used their theory to speculate about the DLC.
Anon, everything in the game talks about time travel. The only thing suggesting imagination is the paradox legend page which isn't in the game.
Do you see the hypocrisy in your words here?
The only evidence for imagination has been left for dlc.
>which they can't do if it's time travel because the machine has been turned off.
Turned off, not destroyed.
You can use another ID to turn it back on and there's an entire crew that built the time machine INCLUDING the other professor that was there to see the The Raidon come through.
Can you get your information correct before posting next time?
>If imagination was a factor and it passively generates things based on the wants and desires of those in the crater something would have happened.
>Understand?
No, because the third legendary needs the imagination machine built by the professor to do that, without it it can only possess people like Heath. No, the third legendary didn't make any of the imagination pokemon real during Heath's time, Heath invented what he saw.
>because the third legendary needs the imagination machine built by the professor to do that, without it it can only possess people like Heath
So you're saying that the entire game didn't as actually happen and there was no threat from a time machine pumping out violent past/future pokemon.
You know, because there was no imagination to draw from once the professor died.
>Heath invented what he saw.
The likelyhood of that is incredibly low due to their specific designs. Especially where the future pokemon were concerned since they're clearly more futuristic than they could comprehend.
>they're clearly more futuristic than they could comprehend.
it is a possibility but at the same time both versions are culturally influenced by the concept of past and future even the school anthem refers to it
if they are really "imagined" i don't think they came up with any specific creatures but they are a hodgepodge of things they had in mind that influenced the designs of the paradoxes so that disk mon would make them
this, if they came from the professor's imagination then combined with the embellishments of occulture its not hard to see why they look the way they do. the paradox mons also look different in the photo, the sketch and in reality which means everyone had a different take on what theyre supposed to look like, and what we got is how turo imagined them
Okay here's the thing, while you can think about prehistoric creatures and come up with a consistent idea and theme, you can't do the same with the future, it's inherently unknowable.
You can only use the technology of the time as an idea I mean, look at the real world for instance, future car designs in the 60s still had that distinct 60s look about them.
So the homogenized look of Violet look is because that is what future technology looked like at the time?
No, there's not way they could have envisioned something like that in the 200 years ago.
Magnemite exist 6000 years ago, so floating shiny objects could be understood.
not really a lot of people from the past imagined some crazy shit that might happens in the future https://www.demilked.com/future-predictions-from-the-past/
You're not seeing it anon, this designs are still rooted in their era.
Look, I took this from your link. It's all technology and designs from the era shuffled around to make something new.
nta but I dont see your point, all that really matters is that heath and his team come up with some "iron" Pokemon, which was totally feasible 200 years ago. the imagination machine worked from turo's interpretation of these iron pokemon which is why they have more modern elements. the photo of iron treads is so shitty and blurry that anything could be there in place of the face, and the sketch is so low quality that you could interpret the face as one of those old timey tube tvs.
the fact that the sketch artist, the photo artist and turo all had a different idea of what it should look like proves imagination imo
>all that really matters is that heath and his team come up with some "iron" Pokemon, which was totally feasible 200 years ago
No not at all, a metal pokemon now and a metal pokemon then would be completely different.
Look at Magearna for instance. Completely different to any of the paradox pokemon in design despite being a mechanical pokemon as well.
Magearna is 500 years ago. So it has a steampunk design.
Oh my fricking god do you see a single LED display anywhere on any of the pokemon before gen 9's existence, no you fricking do not, stop saying "anything made of metal comes from the same era" you absolute penis
Beeheeyem's hands have three each.
You now need to look up Elgyem because it was discovered "50 years ago", not 5 fricking hundred
one could be explained because of otherwordly alien creature from other dimension the other clearly has fog lights
The low intelligence of imaginationgays on display.
He never said it was from the same era because it was metal you absolute braindead slug. He said that it's representative of two different eras of mechanical designs.
>the fact that the sketch artist, the photo artist and turo all had a different idea of what it should look like proves imagination imo
What?
The sketch artist based their design on what they saw not the other way around.
There's no such thing as a "photo artist" so that doesn't make sense they just take pictures of what's there rather than making something up.
And Turo didn't make anything.
Is this why people believe in imagination? Because you're just moronic?
The photo design and actual mon design aren't the same, don't play dumb. The photo is a montage.
>The sketch artist based their design on what they saw not the other way around.
Then why do all the donphans look different? The photo looks different from the sketch looks different from the actual Pokemon, seriously, look at them
Great Tusk
>sketch and photo have singular long spikes starting from above the eye
>actual Pokemon has a triple-row of short spikes that go all the way to the front of its face
>sketch shows it having curly fur on it's feet, similar to a sheep
>photo doesn't show feet (lol)
>actual Pokemon has short, spiky fur on its legs with much smaller claws
>photo gives it very long, droopy ears
>photo's ears are barely visible
>actual Pokemon has short, spikey ears, spikes which aren't visible on the sketch at all
Iron Treads
>Sketch gives it big feet with long legs and weird claws
>photo obscures its legs
>actual Pokemon has literally no legs, just short nubs
And also the fact that there's no fricking jungle in Area Zero, the photos are doctored and the professor makes them up with all the info they have on them.
>And Turo didn't make anything.
They came from Turo's imagination based off of reading the book, that's the whole basis of the theory.
>And also the fact that there's no fricking jungle in Area Zero, the photos are doctored and the professor makes them up with all the info they have on them.
This actually means very little, when areas constantly change, and even collapse, in real life if something upsets the balance. I’m pretty sure the Third Legend is a Terraformer, and unleashed Paradox Pokémon in the past to transform Area Zero into the beginnings of it’s ‘Paradise’ it wants. There were probably native species that went extinct because of the ecosystem’s collapse and transformation, as noticed by a Primate-based Pokémon not existing in current times, that was recorded back in Heath’s time.
It’s likely the Paradox Pokémon released in Heath’s era, we’re in the process of converting and decimating the native flora into the temperate bed it is now.
>when areas constantly change, and even collapse, in real life if something upsets the balance
Yeah but nothing happens in Area Zero to justify the deletion of an entire biome in 200 years.
>and unleashed Paradox Pokémon in the past to transform Area Zero into the beginnings of it’s ‘Paradise’ it wants
People kept going in the crater and no one could find any paradox Pokemon, nor the professor which prompts him to make the time machine in the first place.
>There were probably native species that went extinct because of the ecosystem’s collapse
Heath records the native Pokemon he actually finds in area Zero which line up to the encounters you find there perfectly, there was no visible change in the wildlife.
>Yeah but nothing happens in Area Zero to justify the deletion of an entire biome in 200 years.
Except, you know, all that construction both of the lab and time machine.
How would building individual labs necessitate removing an entire jungle? Even the labs that look like little communities are squirreled away on the upper levels and are the size of a small in-game town at MOST, that isn't nearly enough to explain away an entire fricking jungle no matter how hard you try. And don't give me the "they removed them for resources" shit because the labs are all very clearly metallic.
Your options are
>the researches committed to mass deforestation of an area they were supposed to research for ???? reason
or
>there was no jungle because heath fricking lied
They brought disease from the surface
both could be true because area zero changes based on the people who gets inside (but that's more of a theory)
but yeah either ways it works
>How would building individual labs necessitate removing an entire jungle
It's called major construction anon, how do you think they got all of the materials in and across Area Zero?
Not to mention there's just a random piece of crag land in what's mostly a lush green area.
Area Zero itself is a biome that shouldn't exist
>Yeah but nothing happens in Area Zero to justify the deletion of an entire biome in 200 years.
the fact that monitoring stations have been built there is perhaps one reason?
> Heath records the native Pokemon he actually finds in area Zero which line up to the encounters you find there perfectly, there was no visible change in the wildlife.
Except this guy doesn’t exist anymore
Isn't that Oranguru?
looks more like a gorilla perhaps a scrapped concept or foreshadowing for dlc
Actually yeah, it doesn't have the frilly Cape thing does it.
it doesn't seem to have one so yeah it's a mystery-mon
Actually I take that back, if you look closely at the right shoulder you can kind of see the points of the cape, it just doesn't have the back one.
i KINDA see it but at the same time it doesn't look like an oranguru to me the body shapes looks a bit odd
Even if it was Oranguru, again, no either it or any other ape Pokemon are located in Area Zero.
I definitely think that either the Photos of Great Tusk and Iron Treads were taken outside of Area Zero, a different part of Area Zero we’ve yet to explore, or the environment has been artificially changed by the wildlife inhabiting the place.
What the frick is that thing even? I thought it might be Slaking but the design doesn't match up, it's literally just a featureless ape.
>the fact that the sketch artist, the photo artist and turo all had a different idea of what it should look like proves imagination imo
What in the ever loving frick are you talking about?
>You can only use the technology
it's exactly that in fact all future mons are technological machines miraidon is literally your futuristic car archetype from sci-fi movies
>it's exactly that in fact all future mons are technological machines miraidon is literally your futuristic car archetype from sci-fi movies
Which is the problem, the modern designs don't fit in 200 years ago.
The game does not seem to be set in 2022
its almost like they're called "paradoxes"
As in time paradox yes.
Paradoxes are contradictions not just something that doesn't make sense.
You never read Isaac Asimov? Basically his idea of robots is the same as the future paradoxes designs.
>but that wasn't 200 years ago
Considering we know Suicune, Entei and Raikou were created 150 years before GSC and Heath's team knew about them, that means SV is at least 50 years in the future from GSC, which means Heath's expedition happened around the same time as those designs were popular in fiction.
Or, the events of the Burned Tower happened 50 years after Heath’s expedition, like logical deduction states. Even if time wasn’t 1:1, and it was ~20 years past GSC timeframe in S/V, that still leaves a huge gap of 30-38 years after Heath’s expedition that the Beast Trio were first recorded into existence.
I’ll say it again, the Disc is an Akashic Record, used by some unknown, fourth Legendary that is a Psychic Type, that recorded the past and future of the Pokémon world, and draws on that knowledge to create the Paradox Pokémon, to fit it’s ideal view of the perfect world. It does this because it wants the world to be like the one it came from, even at the cost of native species, even though it’s incorporated them into it’s designs, so as not to ever truly ‘lose’ the knowledge that they existed. It just makes incredibly more powerful Pokémon to replace what is lost, so they can eventually take over the vacated niches when the ecosystem collapses and depends on them to fill in the missing spots.
>Basically his idea of robots is the same as the future paradoxes designs.
>>but that wasn't 200 years ago
Even you know that's not an argument.
>Considering we know Suicune, Entei and Raikou were created 150 years before GSC
There's that headcanon again.
There's nothing saying that the events of the burned tower were the creation of the beast trio or that they weren't known before then.
they never statement that it looks futuristic and they don't have enough comprehension for understanding what is is as a whole they say it looks like a tread only we say that it looks futuristic
meanwhile for a cristalized eldritch entity like disk mon that wouldn't be a problem it's like bringing toilet papper to caveman
*stated
>they never statement that it looks futuristic and they don't have enough comprehension for understanding what is is as a whole they say it looks like a tread only we say that it looks futuristic
Okay so you agree with me?
They lack the knowledge to comprehend it as futuristic and couldn't envision such a thing meaning it was real and not imagined.
>lack the knowledge to comprehend it as futuristic
for humans? yes for disk mon? nope
You do realise you've just changed the theory to discmon imagining them, right?
disk mon created futuristic-looking pokemon based on people's imagination
people from a culturaly influenced world to commemorate the future it is in the fricking school's anthem
>disk mon created futuristic-looking pokemon based on people's imagination
Anon if that were the case they wouldn't look like modern futuristic designs, they would look like what futuristic technology 200 years ago were seen as.
It's not a hard concept to understand anon.
not hard enough for disk mon to understand
That is futuristic technology from 200 years ago, modern futuristic technology wouldn't make everything lol robots.
>That is futuristic technology from 200 years ago
Pokeballs were still made of wood back then and you think that they would envision sleek, full metal pokemon with LED eyes?
They aren't metal, they simply look metallic, which is why they are named as "Iron X" but are not steel-types.
>They aren't metal, they simply look metallic
perhaps they're cyborg-esque creatures since they don't lack of genes or dna
Pokemon have DNA even if they are made out of rocks or poison gas. You can't confirm materiality that way.
They're made of iron, it's turo who gives them LED eyes because hes filling the gaps with his own imagination.
>it's turo who gives them LED eyes
Except you can see it in the photo of Iron Treads.
Have you people played the game?
They consistently get shit wrong, what do you think.
How do you know they're LED in the photo?
You can see the eyes.
The photo is extremely low quality and intentionally blurry as frick, those eyes could be stickers and it would make no difference.
Nice blown up thumbnail you have there but you can still make out the face.
No shit, I'm saying just seeing the face doesn't mean the eyes are LED, the photo is so shitty that the eyes could have been meant to be anything, even normal "monster" eyes behind a screen, and Turo just interpreted that as an LED light.
>I'm saying just seeing the face doesn't mean the eyes are LED
Anon if the design is the fricking same then they're fricking LED eyes.
they look like gastly's eyes (which a hell load of kanto mons had)
It's like, you weren't born with the capacity to think or something.
the same thing can be said for you since they look the same monster eyes
Dude, Turo LITERALLY had no influence on them.
They came from turo's imagination.
also holy shit this is an actual word
If they came from Turo's imagination no one would know about them except for Turo. The story wouldn't make sense.
But you're someone who's impressed by something as common as the captcha making a word so I shouldn't be surprised that you believe in imagination
>If they came from Turo's imagination no one would know about them except for Turo.
What the FRICK are you talking about? Turo imagined them based off of what he reads in the book and Occulture and fills in the design gaps himself.
Then they didn't come from Turo's imagination did they.
How are you this fricking stupid.
This MUST be bait, and if so 10/10.
You can just say you have no fricking argument. It's either 100% or nothing, there's no middle ground since that's not the only futuristic design element to it
See no sense in arguing with the mentally moronic, you're right.
I guess you could say his argument is imaginary.
>Turo imagined them!
>I-it doesn't matter that they were seen before he was born...
Not him but
No you can't.
>modern futuristic technology wouldn't make everything lol robots.
the fact that this is so true becauso of turo from a modern era is making everything into robots lol
Turo is following what his childhood book says.
his childhood book doesn't say they're robots but about impossible monster-looking pokemon
It says Iron, which for Turo means robot.
is that true though? when i think of iron i think only about bisharp
>That is futuristic technology from 200 years ago
Are you fricking kidding me? The paradox pokemon look like 90s machines you dipshit.
There's a reason why everyone said Valiant looked like metal sonic.
Sonic isn't from the early 19th century
That's the point. There's no one from 200 years ago who would envision such a thing, not even in the pokemon world.
>It's not even a real plothole.
How is it not real? The game literally points it out itself.
It technically isn't really a plothole since the game brings attention to it, it's pretty obviously a build up for things to come.
But yeah even then it still destroys timetravelgays.
A plothole is still a plothole even if the game acknowledges it as one.
Well paradoxes(contradictions) are potholes. The difference is that while it doesn't make any sense there is a logic behind it but we don't know yet.
>Well paradoxes(contradictions) are potholes
A paradox isn't necessarily a plothole especially where time travel is concerned.
>The imagination theory is used to fill plot holes but it creates others
There is none plot holes with imagination theory, but wit "just time travel theory” there are literally dozens of them, lmao
>Why ”past” Paradox Pokémon look bizarre and have that stereotypical caveman unga-bungalow aesthetic when even REAL past Pokémon aka Fossilmons never looked like that neither had that aesthetic?
Timetravel theory can’t explain that but imagination theory can.
>Why ”future” Paradox Pokémon are all just robots out of nowhere? Why it is just stereotypical "future = robots” idea out of a sudden?
Timetravel theory can’t explain that but imagination theory can.
>Why Paradox Pokémon was in the past where time machine was not a thing?
Timetravel theory can’t explain that but imagination theory can.
>plot holes
What plot holes are you babbling about all this time tho?
All that discussion comes up from game being painfully obvious about main twist being ”time travel but actually not really” and there are just two factions of people - those who agrees with(imagination theory - based on all hints and info from the game) it and those who disagree(just a time travel theory - based on blunt belief what there can’t be falseflags in stories made by GF).
It is all just that simple banter.
>Meanwhile time travel is just clear cut
>Imagination theory explains why there was Paradoxes in Heath’s time despite no time machine being a thing
>time travel theory can’t explain why there was Paradoxes in Heath’s time.
Inb4
>B-but time travel!!! They just sent them to Heath’s time!!!
And for what fricking reason?
No one timtravelcuck ever answered that.
Nah, that's the timetravelcuck shit where you ignore all the times the game explicitly tells you there's something wrong with the scenario the professor pushes. Imagination is the only version that ties all together, Carlos, that's why we are right, we consider Turo and Sada's schizo ramblings and all the discrepancies between their story, occulture and a the books and find something that explains it all.
Oh and if it isn't time travel then literally nothing makes sense without a ludicrous amount of headcanon and misinterpretation that disregards the game itself.
You can even see it in this thread with the people who are denying it being time travel not knowing about things that the game explains like the book containing the Professor's ID, with them coming to the conclusion that the book itself was a key and that any old book could be used.
>with them coming to the conclusion that the book itself was a key and that any old book could be used.
Not that the book itself was the key just that it was easy to replace the book for one that wouldn't work with the time machine, it's like making a key almost identical with other ones that is easy to mix with the real one. Did you read the posts or are just shitposting?
>Oh and if it isn't time travel then literally nothing makes sense without a ludicrous amount of headcanon and misinterpretation that disregards the game itself.
>Paradox Pokemon
Let's see, we have Jigglypuff that existed far before the crater or life on the planet did, Volcarona who conveniently has never been indicated to live in that time period and there are no fossils found of it, Salemence which is literally just a bigfoot photo-tier version of the mega, Tyranitar that looks like it's been taken directly from Pokestar Studios, Mega Galladevoir fusion that's apparently built by some scientist, and a literal imaginary Pokemon that we're getting as DLC
>AI Professor
Literally wouldn't exist if the original professor didn't wish for help. This is stated.
>Scarlet/Violet Books
The only legacy that anything from Area Zero was even real with it implied that the author ran into the legendary in a comatose state
>Third Legend
A literal demiurge
>AI Professor's whereabouts
IN the demiurge, where it came from in the first place.
>Time Travel gays
As delusional as "mega timeline" gays. There has already been interdimensional and time travel in this series, it's not that deep. There is no time machine in Area Zero, the paradox Pokemon are referred to as such because they didn't exist and never will exist.
You're just proving my point. You're under the assumption that Occulture is real when the game itself practically says it isn't. It's not a factor in anything so it doesn't affect time travel or imagination.
Well I say that it doesn't affect imagination but like another anon said, Turo wouldn't think of a time machine if he was as influenced by Occulture.
>Literally wouldn't exist if the original professor didn't wish for help. This is stated.
Also misinterpretation, not to mention it specifies knowledge and not a wish.
If imagination and wishes were a factor then it wouldn't even be an AI it would just be another copy of the professor.
>The only legacy that anything from Area Zero was even real
What?
The metal slab?
The markings?
The herba mystica?
The sketch of the spiral path down in the crater?
The crystals?
Everything in the book we can confirm exists.
You're laser focused on the paradox pokemon because that's the only thing that hasn't been 100% verified yet but with the imagination theory saying it was 100% made up and the expedition never happened then why would it be so accurate?
See the problem?
>A literal demiurge
There's a lot of alchemy themes in the game, it's more likely a philosopher's stone which also plays into the knowledge and treasure theme. Not to mention the type changing nature of Terastallization. Lead to gold, Fire to Water and so on.
>IN the demiurge
Yeah no, the obvious reason why is because the time machine would still be on since it could just spit it out again and the reactivation program would start.
Unless you headcanon some reason why it couldn't come back which is the imagination theory in a nutshell I suppose.
>There has already been interdimensional and time travel in this series, it's not that deep.
Why does it have to be deep?
Actually, why do you want it to be deep? The whole idea of imagination overcomplicstes things to an unnecessary degree while time travel is just time travel, it's easy to explain.
We would have fossils of the mons if it was time travel, a real time frame for jigglypuff, and wouldn't have a form that predates mega evolution, a form that predates magnets and a form that predates pokeballs. The future ones wouldn't look like how an average person from 200 years ago would imagine future technology to be like.
I'm a imagination gay but fossils don't always happen. Most creatures disappear forever and aren't preserved and turn into fossils.
nta but i think people are losing the plot when they get into the semantics of whether or not we could hypothetically have fossils. the point of the game saying they never found slither wing fossils isn't to start a discussion on fossilization and all possible means of it, it's to shine a light on the fact that zero records of slither wing (or any past paradox) exist anywhere in archeology despite all other ancient dino-mons having enough remains that they could reconstruct them and know when/where they lived and everything.
the point is that the game is telling us they lack proof showing they ever actually existed in the past, otherwise they wouldnt have brought it up in the first place
>We would have fossils of the mons if it was time travel
The real reason we don't have fossils is because it creates a situation where there's more in Scarlet than Violet.
You can't have a future fossil.
You people are so fricking moronic.
They aren't contradictory just because you don't understand it.
>we've literally never had a game about time travel
Isn't that the plot of legends arceus?
>like this
like what?
>Isn't that the plot of legends arceus?
Well, it has time travel but unlike SV it's not too important to plot. Its more an extra detail that didn't really need to exist.
>like what?
We've never had a pokemon game explore darwinian evolution or touch on time paradoxes.
>Well, it has time travel but unlike SV it's not too important to plot.
What the frick? It's literally central to the plot, (you) are sent from the future because people and Pokemon are already friends which makes catching for you easy and during the climax of the story you're also cast out because of this, they also use it to get cameos like Ingo in the game, time travel absolutely important to the plot as well as the gameplay.
>It's literally central to the plot
No, no it isn't. You can remove the fact that you came from the future and nothing about the plot really changes.
Even the time rifts are just there to throw in pokemon that's shouldn't logically be in the region like Porygon.
It's not the focal point of the game. Even Ingo didn't need to exist because the only thing he did was lead you through a cave, it's not like you send him back or anything like that, hell, you yourself don't even go back to the present.
Do you get it now?
You could cut everything about time travel and nothing changes.
While a game like Prince of Persia Sand of Time for instance has it ingrained in the plot and as a central mechanic. You can't separate time travel from that game and still have it make sense.
>its more an extra detail that didn't really need to exist.
Really dude?
>atleast 2 decades ago?
>2009
>2 decades ago
moron alert.
And no HGSS isn't about time travel, it has a single event where we DON'T go back to a whole new era let alone one so far back that pokemon are visibly different or haven't evolved certain traits yet.
Oh and
>There's no reason why they'd pussyfoot around with the pokemon from the past or the future when they have done even more outlandish pokemon.
We have LITERALLY never had anything like Paradox Pokemon before.
>We have LITERALLY never had anything like Paradox Pokemon before.
Precisely. Paradox Pokemon are the first time a species has been sourced from the imagination.
>Paradox Pokemon are the first time a species has been sourced from the imagination
This is true for the games, not the movies though...
it should be important to think about the similarities area zero shares with the rest of the paldea region, not just the differences
> regular wild pokemon still live there and make up the majority of life there (unless you've beaten the story, in which they start to appear more commonly)
Think about it. Isn't it weird how Area Zero's inhabitants are normal pokemon until you start progressing further down the crater, towards the labs... towards man-made machinery..?
Also towards the hallucinogenic crystals ....
Hallucinogenic? I suppose if they're able to make you hallucinate something into reality, but I wouldn't bank everything on "they're not real, everyone who goes into Area Zero ends up hallucinating", because you fight Iron Treads/Great Tusk before any exposure to Area Zero. That is without a doubt a plot point written to prevent people from coming to the "you are crazy, they're normal pokemon, you're just tripping balls" conclusion. The prehistoric/futuristic pokemon are real, there's no questioning that.
What's with the billion years ago nonsense in the entries for these things? Genesect is only supposed to be 300 million years old and is called the Paleozoic Pokémon, which implied the Pokémon world has a similar life history to Earth. Modern phyla are only 500 and some million years old. WTF was Jigglypuff doing?
Obviously fake exaggerated nonsense spouted by dubious magazines that the hack professors are up and were so autistic on finding them, the third legendary made them real
The story goes
>Heath finds weird feral/robotic pokemon in the pit and writes about what they look like, takes a photo or two
>cryptid magazines start reporting on them, embellishing Heath’s findings with extra lore about how “dude the pokemon must be from the past/future isn’t that crazy???” to draw in readers
>professor reads both the book and the articles and decides that the mons must be from the past/future, and that you need a time machine to bring them here
The second point is worth noting, because Heath’s writing never once mentions the pokemon coming from different time periods- only the magazines do.
>headcanon to excuse the obvious plotholes
Occulture articles always refer to the Scarlet/Violet Book as their source and Heath was a fricking writer, we have no reason to think occulture added info not writen by Heath himself.
>we have no reason to think occulture added info not writen by Heath himself.
Not that anon but considering that the magazine is referred to as "dubious" I'd say that gives reason to.
Considering the game explains the Scarlet/Violet Book was seen as a bunch of horsecrap made by a liar as soon people bough and read it I would say Occulture being called "dubious" is perfectly on line with the source material
>headcanon
The magazines refer to various hearsay from locals, not the scarlet/violet books exclusively. “Scientists” are mentioned in the Sandy Shocks one for instance. This is notable in the Scream Tail and Iron Thorns cases, in that the magazine attributes their temporal displacement to “rumors” and mentions the similar creature in Heath’s book as only the namesake for the codename.
>Scarlet/violet book is 100% factual as we find out during our journey
>HeAtH mAdE iT uP!
>photos don't match Long Tusk/Iron Treads details, the drawings don't match photos or reality either
>even the jungle where they found Long Tusk/Iron Treads is fake, there are no jungles in Area Zero
>two paradox pokemon confirmed to be DLC material are explicitly said to be imaginary
>Herba Mystica is only found at titan pokemon lairs, not in Area Zero where it supposedly come from
>Heath could't possibly see Winged King/Iron Serpent because the only two of each paradox ever retrieved to modern times are in your team
>the non-crazy person most familiar with the book is the one telling us how bullshit they are, even after the endgame
>"Scarlet/violet book is 100% factual"
Why do timetravelfricks don't play the game?
Funny thing is that when i beat the game i was going to search for herba mystica for that teacher quest and the first place i searched was area zero then i learned that it was a rare drop in tera raids lol
don't match Long Tusk/Iron Treads details, the drawings don't match photos or reality either
Photoblur easy the features that are easy to make out are the same.
>>even the jungle where they found Long Tusk/Iron Treads is fake, there are no jungles in Area Zero
Human intervention, the labs for instance were made 120 years after Heath's expedition and obviously that would cause some kind of alteration to the terrain.
>>two paradox pokemon confirmed to be DLC material are explicitly said to be imaginary
The fact that they're real should tell you that they aren't imaginary and something else is going on. It's not the other way around.
Mystica is only found at titan pokemon lairs, not in Area Zero where it supposedly come from
Again, human intervention.
could't possibly see Winged King/Iron Serpent because the only two of each paradox ever retrieved to modern times are in your team
Also false we have a time machine that could be used at a later date to send the pokemon back or it was sent and not recorded. They're very plausible explanations but of course you're not interested in plausibility because it ruins your personal headcanon.
>>the non-crazy person most familiar with the book is the one telling us how bullshit they are, even after the endgame
I hope you aren't referring to Arven because despite having the book.
Confirming the existence of the herbs, seeing the metal plate and so on and so forth he still acts like it's a bunch of nonsense.
>The fact that they're real should tell you that they aren't imaginary and something else is going on. It's not the other way around.
>Heath isn't lying!
>He is only lying when saying that these pokemon are imaginary!
Ok moron
>>He is only lying when saying that these pokemon are imaginary!
Are you an idiot? A lie is misinformation yes but not all misinformation is a lie.
God this is the mewtwo cloning thing all over again.
>Photoblur
Photoblur would make Long Tusk's look less pointy, but that's exactly the opposite to what happened you fricking moron.
>a lab built 80 years ago to investigate the nature of Area Zero destroyed the jungle of Area Zero
You are getting dumber and dumber at every line.
>The fact that they're real should tell you that they aren't imaginary
Okay I can't keep pretending you have an argument anymore. Your "100% factual" book says they were imagined, yet you claim the opposite now. I would tell you to make up your mind but you clearly can't, you are as contradictory and full of bullshit as the book.
>Photoblur would make Long Tusk's look less pointy
Which it does. The perspective and the blur makes the tusks look blunt.
You post a picture because you know that's true.
>a lab built 80 years ago to investigate the nature of Area Zero destroyed the jungle of Area Zero
Yes? Did you think that the buildings just proofed into existence down there or something?
They'd have to prepare an area for the labs and construct them you know. Do you think that they just proofed the labs into existence?
Well that is the whole crux of the imagination theory isn't it.
>photoblur
NTA but you're kind of a fricking idiot. The drawing and the picture are clearly different from each other which are in turn different from the in game model in ways that cannot be explained away with "motion blur".
>he really thinks that setting up 4 small outposts, 6 satellite dishes and a lab in a cave would destroy an entire jungle ecosystem.
Anon just stop.
>The drawing and the picture are clearly different from each other
Yes because one is a sketch from. Memory and the other is a blurred photo.
And as many people have said there's also possible design changes between the model designers and the artwork designers.
>>he really thinks that setting up 4 small outposts, 6 satellite dishes and a lab in a cave would destroy an entire jungle ecosystem.
Yes?
Major construction like that can in fact destroy ecosystems.
>And as many people have said there's also possible design changes between the model designers and the artwork designers.
this cope is so fricking funny, yeah bro they internally fricked up one of the central pieces of lore because uh.....it fits my argument lmfao
>yeah bro they internally fricked up one of the central pieces of lore
Yes? It's not the first time that's ever happened in a game.
Pokemon has done it multiple times now.
The time machine doesn't work anymore. If the third legendary gets it going again it'll probe it's an imagination machine.
>The time machine doesn't work anymore
People make so many headcanons about time travel here so i will say that just because you can go back and the time machine is with the lights turned on again that it's working!
>The time machine doesn't work anymore
The time machine was never destroyed, it was shut down there's a difference.
And can only be used with the book that isn't there anymore.
>And can only be used with the book
Thats headcanon, any authorised ID could activate it.
The ID that was explicitely stated to be in the book ?
lol
>If the third legendary gets it going again it'll probe it's an imagination machine.
What are you even talking about?
All they would need is another ID to turn it back on.
>The fact that they're real should tell you that they aren't imaginary
Imagination theory never stated they aren’t real. They ARE, however, became real BECAUSE of someone’s imagination/dreams/fears of unknown.
That is the main point, they are real but they are also made up by people minds, intentionally or not.
I don't know where else to post this schizo rant so I'll just dump it here cause it's related enough.
I was looking through my recordings of the professor fight and I noticed this fricking dialogue.
>Do you imagine you can best the wealth of data at my disposal with your human brain?
>Do you IMAGINE
Why the FRICK would he say "Do you imagine" instead of "Do you think"?? I'm going fricking insane. If it's NOT some kind of imagination bullshit with all these fricking hints they are dropping, I'm going to kill myself.
why does the professor say this and not the AI? doesn’t the professor have a human brain too? Also doesn’t it make more sense that the professor, whose ultimate dream is to do future stuff, would just upload himself to a robots body so he can withstand time travel and go live there?
and does the game ever say where this hole came from
That's where the 3rd legendary is hiding.
It's generally very unclear who or what is talking when. This whole fight seems like a weird schizophrenic struggle between the professor and their own derangement or some shit. It's very strange.
And another thing I noticed yesterday is this. The AI deliberately specifying "physical body" might imply that there is a non-physical body of some sorts?
That one is easy to explain.
The AI is the straight forward one.
Sada is the imprint she left to form the basis of the AI and PPP after she went insane/was possessed by the third legend.
Sada? Is the real imprint of Sada before being influenced. The one that was excited to give birth to Arven and raise him.
>Why the FRICK would he say "Do you imagine" instead of "Do you think"??
Because he's asking the player if he can comprehend the amount of data.
It's a hint towards the fact that the third legend is a wellspring of knowledge that can influence and corrupt people as you can see with the real professors.
>imagination theory relies entirely on the Occulture magazines being real
>it isn't
>imagination theory relies entirely on the Occulture magazines being real
So that's why timetravelcucks deny the imagination explanation... they literally don't know how it works. Fricking kek
The Scarlet dex calls the future paradox mons rumor and Violet does the same for the past paradox mons.
"time machine" needs the book to even work for some reason. People still think it's just a time travel plot at this point?
If you had played the game you would know why it needed the "book".
>If you had played the game you would know why it needed the "book".
I'm sorry i might not have played then, can you say why it needed the moronic book?
>can you say why it needed the moronic book?
Because they didn't really need the book.
It still is moronic to need a book for that though. Why not a card or something else? It's so easy to mix the scarlet/violet book with any other copy.
You're a fricking idiot.
It WAS a card.
Sada put her ID into the book, her personal book with her notes in and most likely her name.
There's no way to confuse a fresh copy of the book with her personal one especially since there would be signs of alterations that she had to make to fit the card into the thing.
>It WAS a card.
The only moron is you because it was a book, put her ID in something isn't a card moron.
>her personal book with her notes in and most likely her name.
This is headcanon. We don't know if that book is any diferent from other ones just that it has her ID somewhere in it.
Wrong, see
The only thing right is the name though. People still mix books with names in it all the time. Nobody would use books as keys, only morons does this.
Imaginationgays truly haven't played this game.
They never explain exactly how the ID is in the book. Is it a card? A tag? Their old trainer ID from the time at the academy? Was it simply written manually in the book? How does the machine "scan" the book (and only the book, it's literally made to fit the book in) to search for the ID? If it's a physical ID why isn't the machine designed for it? It's like making a door that opens not when you put the keys on, but when you introduce a box that may or may not have the keys themselves.
What the frick are you talking about?
You're over complicating things.
The book sitting there is as simple as just adding stoppers around the scanner so it can rest there.
Anyone else can just tap their ID normally.
>headcanon
Sentences like this are why normies want to sterilize us and abort us.
The professor is fricking autistic about the book. It's the sole reason they became a researcher. They were completely obsessed with it ever since they were a kid.
Yes that's the only reason but i don't think a real scientist would be that stupid to use a book as a key for something, but this is pokemon, can't expect much.
The book had a lot of emotional value for them. It's actually the copy they've owned since their childhood, indicated by this description. They were eccentric as frick, it's definitely weird but not completely ridiculous.
>but i don't think a real scientist would be that stupid to use a book as a key
You say that but scientists are literally just goofy nerds at heart. You'd be surprised at what kind of shit they would do just to remember that they need to carry something.
>You say that but scientists are literally just goofy nerds at heart.
Yes good nerds not morons. A book so easy to find anywhere isn't a good idea to use as a key to a fricking time machine... Someone can just replace it a write the moronic professor name in it
You clearly don't understand that handwriting is a thing. Not to mention the Scarlet and Violet book aren't exactly popular after it was deemed as fake.
In any case its incredibly common to see people do their own little things to keep track of what they need to, back when I was in college we had similar IDs to get in and out and I knew someone who embedded it into their bag so they would never forget it because they never got used to carrying it.
It's not as uncommon as you think.
>You clearly don't understand that handwriting is a thing
Yes because faking someone handwriting is really hard right?
Why is that stupid? Literally only they and Arven had access to that specific book. It's pretty smart all things considered.
>Literally only they and Arven had access to that specific book
Not true, Heath's book is everywhere just that Arven has it with him because of Mabosstiff quest. Also this
Anon are you stupid? It has to be THAT ONE SPECIFIC COPY of the book, not any Scarlet/Violet book.
Don't samegay.
Also read what he said
>that specific book
As in Sada/Turo's copy with the ID.
They always had it on them until Arven got his hands on it.
Reading isn't that hard anon. Is that why you believe the ridiculous imagination theory? Because you don't know how to read and filled the gaps in your knowledge with your headcanon
I'm not talking about imagination here. I'm saying that someone can fake turo name in the book and replace it. It's a moronic idea to use a book as a key.
>don't samegay
It was my other comment you moron! I won't write the same thing two times, it's easy to just reply
>Why not a card or something else?
She put the card into the book. That's literally what this screenshot says.
The book itself was never the key.
What's his endgame?
Why are their planets in the background?
He lies sleeping, dreaming. He must not awaken, for there will be worlds nor gods no more.
Spooky
Nebbie forma de Lovecraft
I miss ultra beasts but paradox mons are also cool.
Just the future mons are not as cool.
>this thread again
Ask timetravelgays how Heath saw Miraidon despite only two of them being retrieved from "the future" and then watch them come up with moronic headcanon that contradicts the "time machine" rules to justify it.
>huuuh maybe the kidnapping-pokemon-from-another-time machine took a Miraidon, then Turo somehow, sent it to the past for the lulz and then retrieved it again and he just never recorded any of this for no reason and...??"
>Pokemon: Paradox Pokemon are created through and only limited by imagination
>One Piece: Luffy actually ate a different fruit that gives him god like powers only limited by his imagination
Any other anime want to use the imagination card?
Gee I wonder how come the time machine only sends to the present the cryptid pokemon from occulture/the books. No normal pokemon that happen to live there in the past/future, no other past/future species Heath never saw and recorded in his book, nothing like that at all, the time machine conveniently brings up only the specimens the professor wanted to see as a child.
It'd be pretty funny if the time machine was actually legit and the professor DID get Pokemon from the past/future, but they were just regular Pokemon and the professor just released them because they were looking for the fakemons from the book.
It would be stupidly convenient if out of ALL pokemon that lived/will live in Area Zero the only ones that look different to modern day pokemon are the ones already included in the book. But I guess timetravelgays could believe Heath just happened to find ALL the species that can't be found nowadays. Not a single extinct/future-only pokemon escaped his route, he found them all.
>something millions of people know is real and needed a proper investigation put into it, but the government just ignored it and fact checked it away
Very daring take on 2020 GF.
Why is this still a debate?
No one genuinely thinks its imagination right?
Right?
Unfortunately because the imagination theory basically relies on reality warping and creating things from nothing people do in fact think that it's a plausible theory.
IP count didn't increase
Yes because I'm this anon
It wouldn't go up with this post
Because I already posted.
This post however
is a new IP.
It's not hard to comprehend.
SCREAM
SCREAM TAIIIIIIIIIAAAAAL
Also special attacker that learns fangs, no you can't create a vampire non-Jigglelpuff or you could, but it'll suck.
i feel like the game kinda beats you over the head with imagination/wish fulfillment. the treasure hunt is whatever you want it to be -> the "treasure" at the bottom of area zero is whatever the expedition expected or wanted it to be. the dlc paradoxes being in-text fakemon. the terastal hats looking like a projection from the pokemon's mind. vanilla time travel doesn't really tie it together as satisfyingly for the narrative as a whole.
It also works way better with the tera mechanic.
Using tera crystals to make the user's desires a reality makes way more sense than building a time machine.
>Using tera crystals to make the user's desires a reality.
Problem is it doesn't do that. In fact it's funny that you would pick Penny because hers doesn't change the type of the pokemon. Her Sylveon terastallizes into fairy.
>Problem is it doesn't do that
Are you talking about the time machine using tera energy or the tera type being the type a pokemon wishes to be?
If it's the former you're just straight up wrong.
>Her Sylveon terastallizes into fairy.
How does that disprove anything I said.
How are you this dense.
There's nothing in the game that suggests that the crystals can manifest desires. The orbs and AI suggest they're more like batteries that power them.
>How does that disprove anything I said.
It's called irony anon.
Penny says "be who you want to be" but it doesn't actually change?
Are you autistic or something?
>Game manual for original Metroid refers to Samus as a male
>This must mean that Samus is actually male even though only the manual calls her male and only does so to not spoil the ending of the game
It just mean that people that made the game manuals didn't play the game
the people going around saying that the blurry photos aren't real are sitting there covered in grease typing with sweaty palms and jacking themselves off to their own pathetic attempts to derail the whole thread
Past Paradox mons are ok but why, why are Future Paradox mons Pokemon? They are just machines!
>the people going around saying that the blurry photos aren't real are sitting there covered in grease typing with sweaty palms and jacking themselves off to their own pathetic attempts to derail the whole thread
Is pretending to not notice that both photos have differences really the best attempt at being a Black person you can muster
>Gamefreak makes time machine
>purposefully makes paradox
>hints in endgame that their existence is a paradox
>schizos argue imagination vs time travel ad nauseum
It's a time loop. Both can be true. The paradox will be solved in the DLC. People that keep repeating "it's imagination time travel gays lmao!" ignore the fact that SV are 2 different realities of the same timeline.
What if there was a Paradox that doesn't look like a Pokemon, but a demonized version of a human?
the domestication statement sounds even more like bullshit when you look at koraidon he's already a chill creature https://youtu.be/Vzkeb2C8qd0
Most Pokemon are. It is a world where pretty much every documented kind of creature can become the friend to a child.
>pretty much every documented kind of creature can become the friend to a child.
only when you brainwash them with your balls
>AI lies to you to get you to come to area zero
>AI is locked inside the lab from the outside
>the Raidon immediately returns to the AI after the door is unlocked
>AI tells you the only way to shut down the time machine is with the paradox book
>after PPP is defeated, the AI flees into the time machine with the paradox book that's meant to shut it down
>time machine is still active after they leave
It's totally imagination guys and nothing else I swear.
>>time machine is still active after they leave
It was shut down, but still completely functional.
The same but different in essence.
It wasn't shut down. The AI enters it and leaves with the book that's supposed to be used to disable it.
No, whatever they did after or offscreen shut down the machine.
I mean, that was the objective.
>room is still active after the battle with the PPP
>AI leaves with the supposed key to disable the system
>DLC involves Heath and more paradox pokemon
Surely it's disabled and the AI that initially lies to you to enter Area Zero told you the truth that it's shut down. You sure want to argue this one specific point and ignore everything else I said.
Eh, I don't really want to argue it in a serious manner. It's just just a change from dealing with inane wish theories.
I don't want to say it but when the AI professor in the finale wants to have an adventure of their own thinking with their own head they're literally making a wish and machines shouldn't do that
but then in the big ass crater dreams do come true and the impossible happens it's a dream machine
Why would an AI be unable to make wishes if it copies how a human works and a human can do that?
if they really are a copy of the professors they wouldn't say that bringing pokemon from other eeras was a bad idea they would pursuit it
How long until the DLC? I'm getting annoyed by this.
towards the end of february maybe as an annoucement with the national pokemon day
>Heath made it all up! it's all imagination!
>Heath was given a page from the paradox book that was in his hand writing by another person
>N-no! That's not real! Imagination!
>Heath was given a page from the paradox book that was in his hand writing by another person
Why you need to lie about it? Heath wake up with the notes that he wrote and don't remember. Nobody gave to him.
Read the book, Black person. The 3rd legendary is referred to as "entity" or "being" in the book and the professor's notes.
Yes moron i was talking about this exactly page. Heath wrote the entire thing while sleeping. Stop being a moron.
He was found unconscious after meeting with this person in an unfamiliar place "as if in a dream". Reading comprehension is hard, I know.
He was literally found sleeping you fricking moron
Still doesn't mention anybody giving it to him.
If he didn't write it but it was in his handwriting he was clearly possessed.
>If he didn't write it but it was in his handwriting he was clearly possessed.
He did write it but like you said was some kind of possession. It's literally "automatic writing" or psychography
Are time travel gays still at it? I thought they gave up after it was shown the board was overwhelmingly imagination gays.
it's like the same 3 guys now
If that's the case that's just sad, I wish the DLC comes out son so they can finally be proven wrong and end this argument. Obsessing over this for months can't be healthy.
dubs and it's time travel
>off by one
Oh no no no ahahahahaha
The Iron Treads in the the sketch and book don't describe the eyes as strange, so that wasn't a trait held by it at the time.
Pokemon eyes don't work like eyes.
There are so many unfunny bored dickwads here just spouting shit to extend a pointless debate
Imagine if in the DLC Zinnia shows up with a mechanical feathered version of Mega Rayquaza called Iron Feathers or something and says her line
That's fricking stupid.
Which makes it the ideal kind of ending. A hated shows up out of nowhere and hijacks the plot for her own ends.
>Paradox legendaries for DLC are explicitly stated as imagined
>Timetravelgays are STILL in denial and rather just stick their heads into sand and scream D-DOESN’T COUNT!!! IT IS DIFFERENT!!!
holy fricking shit, i wonder how hard they be malding when DLC came out
Heath's sketch artist was a prophet
Or he was just fed information by discmon.
I'd say that's the most likely situation.
This.
The Disc Pokémon is an Akashic Record, a record of the past and the future. It’s the only way the Paradox of a perfect rendering of a fusion of the Three Beasts could exists, is because the Disc Pokemon was aware before hand, and created a copy formit’s own use.
>and created a copy formit’s own use.
Or they're just real versions.
>Disc Pokémon is an Akashic Record
That sounds too based to be real
I mean I think it’s also separate from the Tarasque on top, that is the Third Legendsry that deals with Terastal crystals.
I really hope it's Tarasque-inspired because it would tie even better with Kalos
Yeah. The third legend matches the description of the Tarasque. “ It’s described as a Lion headed monster, with six pairs of paws of a Bear, the shell of a Turtle, and ending with the scaly tail of a serpent that ends in a spurred shape of an arrowhead,( or half of a fish,) and a mouth full with sword-like teeth as sharp as horns. In French Heraldry, it’s been described as a green (sinople) dragon swallowing a man, with golden scales covering it’s hide.”
Also the eight Paradox Forms we have, totally 16 in total so far: “The poor locals found out that if the Tarasque devoured eight people in one sitting. then over the next six months it is completely safe. And they set the order for the payment of this nightmarish dues… (this next bit is In reference to a Parade, they have a float pulled by…) Exactly eight - In memory of the Tarasques appetites.”
Forgot the image…
There’s also the Tarasque’s Parents:
Onachus/Bonacho - A goat-like entity that seems to have been a parent of the Tarasque. Repurposed to be a creation of the Third Legendary, based off of the Swords of Justice. “Iron ‘Sword’”
(Apparently Psychic/Fighting Type, it could perhaps be said so, because the Bonacho flung it’s own feces like an arrow to hit and burn it’s targets)
Leviathan - A mythical sea-serpent that seems to have been a parent of the Tarasque. Repurposed as the creation of the Third Legend, perhaps into a Water/Dragon(or Water/Fire/Water/Elecrtic) Suicuine Paradox form incorporating both Entei and Raikou… a ‘Mythic Beast’.
(It’s of note that Paradox Suicune is seen without the notable ‘Draconic/dinosaur’ tail, but Leviathan has been noted to possibly be more than a fish or sea serpent. It has also been described as walking on land, as the root word could be describing a Crocodile; so the definition of ‘Leviathan’ being a four legged beast could be played with loosely here. The root of the name also means ‘to twine;to join’, and as Suicune’s ‘ribbon-like’ tails can twist and come together, applied here it could be a literal interpretation that these entwine to become the ‘tail’. Levithan’s are also chaos incarnate, and what is more chaotic that surging waters.)
You say that but it has something to do with information and knowledge.
The thread is dying dude, why do you even give a flying frick?
>time travel trannies are coping this hard
Off yourself already time travel cucks