Here is a thread for discussing the Warcraft RPG and associated Warcraft lore.
Did Kael'thas deserve better?
Why did Blizzard turn him into a loot pinata?
Warcraft RPG
Here is a thread for discussing the Warcraft RPG and associated Warcraft lore.
Did Kael'thas deserve better?
Why did Blizzard turn him into a loot pinata?
>Did Kael'thas deserve better?
Yes
>Why did Blizzard turn him into a loot pinata?
Incompetency
Btw is there a blood mage class in the RPG?
>Btw is there a blood mage class in the RPG?
Is there any real difference between blood mage and mage?
In theory, yes. Bloodmages abandon frost magic in favor of doubling down into fel fire magic. WoW decided that wasn't a thing for mages to be able to do though, and made fel fire magic a warlock thing.
In WC3 the big difference was that Bloodmage heroes had the ability to steal mana from other units.
Kael's spells in WC3 are
>Flame Strike: a big fricking AoE fire nuke
>Mana Drain: life drain for mana
>Banish: sends target to the shadow realm, slowing them for the duration of the spell, making them immune to physical damage, and making them take extra damage from spells
>Summon Pheonix: does what it says on the tin. The Phoenix will self-damage over time. When its HP reaches 0 it turns into an egg with a life timer. If the timer hits 0 before the egg takes lethal damage, the phoenix rises anew with full HP
The biggest departure from other spellcasters in WC3 is the ability to steal mana directly from enemy units, which was also a big part of Blood Elves' racial identity when they were brought to WoW (see: the BC trailer where a blood elf consumes a mana wyrm on camera). I don't think Blood Mages specifically have very strong ties to fell magic, but the ability to consume magical energy from living beings, plus the highly offensive nature of their spells (contrasted to the archmage who summons a body, increases mana regen for friendlies, and has a mass teleport) seems to set them apart from your more achedmically minded mages from Dalaran.
>I don't think Blood Mages specifically have very strong ties to fell magic
The description of the Blood Mage in the WC3 guidebook indicated a strong likelihood that they were involving wielding demonic magic. It's not explicit, but it's pretty likely, expecially when considering how the Blood Elves went in WoW.
>"A mystical Hero, adept at controlling magic and ranged assaults. Though still members of the Alliance, the Blood Elves have begun to turn to the darkest parts of magic, abandoning the water and frost spells of the Kirin Tor for the fire and heat of what some people fear to be Demonic magic. Attacks land and air units."
ALL arcane magic was diet fel back in WC3 (Though it wasn't CALLED Fel yet, fricking Felwood was already named Felwood before it got blighted by Fel even)
But fire magic was treated as the closest to going over the edge.
That was the one good retcon.
These all sucked.
>Fire magic treated as closest to going over the edge
Kind of strange that the Archmage's basic attack was always fireballs. Maybe fire in that application wasn't that dangerous for the user?
It's the sheer amount used.
TBC should simply be retconned out of the lore
>Why did Blizzard turn him into a loot pinata?
That was so many years and so many strata of lore-ruining ago that it's no longer relevant.
been working on my WoW fanfic
Should I make Jaina more initially antagonistic to her stepdaughter?
I was thinking she may be envious that the girl is more talented than she is at the same age and hides it well, but I also wonder if it'd be better if she accepted it and teaches the girl to the best of her ability.
How emotionally mature is your Jaina supposed to be?
Battle for Azeroth so she's ruthless anti Horde mode
Actually come to think of it, might be interesting if she molds her stepdaughter into a deadly magic weapon to unleash against the Horde
>Filomena gazed on as her father, the Buccaneer King, takes Lord Admiral Jaina Proudmoore's hands into his own
*took
Thanks, didn't notice that
Any thoughts on a good relationship with warmonger ruthless Jaina and a stepdaughter with magical talent?
At first maybe they'd be distant and awkward with each other but as they get to know each other they might grow to like each other, or maybe hate each other depending on how their personalities clash
I don't think Jaina would fit into the evil stepmother archetype
idk I'm not a stepmother or a stepdaughter so I can't tell you how they'd be like
I had a draft in mind for their relationship, but yeah I don't think Jaina fits into the evil stepmother archetype either.
I was also thinking Jaina would sort of treat her as sort of a replacement for her apprentice who died in Theramore, Kinndy.
I noticed in my draft notes, I had Varian remarry a Blood Elf to get them to rejoin the Alliance (and having a son and daughter with his new wife), and Vereesa remarries to another OC with his own daughters, so there will be quite a few stepmothers
Warcraft died with the lich king, just let it rest anon.
What would be the consequences of the Jade Serpent not being reborn?
The cycle would not continue
Kael'thas had a very worthy raid boss encounter, they just needed to not do that stupid clumsy retcon and drag his corpse out to get 5-man grinded into dust
>thread for discussing Warcraft lore
It's been shit for years and it isn't getting any better. There's no fixing it at this point unless you functionally rewrite the whole thing from the ground up.
>Why did Blizzard turn him into a loot pinata?
Because he's an elf and that's all Blizzard thinks elves are good for
>elves are good for
There's nothing elves are good for
t. Garithos
WoW spent it's first few years turning major lore characters into loot piñatas and only later realized they squandered good story ideas. Bringing Illidan back, finding Kael'thas and Vashj in the afterlives were all them milking their old lore one last time. And no, we never got a satisfying answer as to why KT betrayed his people and sided with the organization that sent him on the path of vengeance in the first place.
I maintain if they want Warcraft's story to be good again they need to reset to the Classic era and write the story onwards from there. And yes, I realize that will never happen for many reasons.
New writers.
I just imagine that the WoW lore is the result of a not!Azathoth voidlord dreaming of the possibilities and making them manifest in a nightmare only the fans would understand.
But given that Azeroth sounds a lot like Azathoth, maybe it was Azeroth as the Worldsoul that is the true threat all along and has been turning creation into a disney/pixar/woke corruption of its roots.
Wut
You know I'm right
How often did Onyxia comfort Anduin?
/ss/ is an objectively terrible fetish. Develop taste and post something like Alexstrasza x Ysera instead.
>/ss/ is an objectively terrible fetish.
I thought /ss/ was the elite forces of Adolf Hitler, not a fetish.
I think the relevant nazi organization here would be the HJ.
I thought it meant shortstack
Is Alexstrasza x Ysera hotter if they're in humanoid or dragon form?
Dragon, but I'm the only one who likes lesbian feral stuff, so
You might be surprised, there's more weird fetishists than you think. Like that floor tile anon.
I think he's alone, too.
Nursing handjobs
Enough to make him gay
>Love warcraft
>Know too much warcraft lore
>All my friends want to play a ttrpg together
>No one wants to DM
>Offer to DM in warcraft setting
>"I'd rather just not play if you're going to use that one"
I don't get why Faerun is acceptable to people but using a setting like warcraft or dragon age is so offputting.
Have you made it clear where in time the Warcraft setting is going to be? Are you going to make any changes to the official canon or leave it all as is?
After 2nd War, was going to be a sort of day of the dragons style in tone. They don't play warcraft but are very anti-rpg/jrpg settings. I've homebrewed with elements of wacraft before to success with them and told them as much but they don't want to try playing within that world at all.
Idk why when warcraft at its core is just generic fantasy, except with some actual moral nuance
Well, sometimes
you know sometimes I forget how generic Warcraft is at it's core
Warcraft 1 had some of the most generic stuff out there
They sound like buttholes, not gonna lie. What, because Blizzard fricked the lore up at some point they don't trust you to steer it right? Or is it just that they think a video game-related setting is somehow too nerdy for their roleplay adventure?
I used to play with a group that had mixed feelings on most of the post-RTS storytelling. It was a real pick-and-choose sort of style of pulling from the lore. I think the best thing you can do is start them in something familiar, like following the Fall of Lordaeron, and build up a familiar rapport with your interpretation of the setting and let them chime in if they'd like. There's a lot to explore in the era that goes well beyond just survival. The fate of the other kingdoms, for instance. Perhaps an elf among the group gets the news that their people are calling themselves Blood Elves now, and they disappear for a few sessions to come back with green eyes, and a totally shifted outlook (upon seeing just how bad things were). Imagine trying to find allies among the disparate, ruined kingdom of Stromgarde, or in the ruins of Dalaran-- only to get involved in their struggles as well.
It works as a fantastic starting point, because the era itself was very character-focused. Knowing the future and the surrounding areas and what becomes of them, but having plenty of time before they come to that point lets your players and you have a lasting impact on the setting in a way that you can continue to build on for as long as your friends like to exist within it. It's really the best way to play in an already established setting: to carve out a niche in the coattails of its most iconic era, which for Warcraft, is ironically the most open to literally anything happening. Really, you just have to upsell the whole thing to them.
Well did they give a reason as to why they dont want to play in Azeroth? Otherwise its wild guessing.
Bro, I'd play that shit in a heartbeat. I can't find anyone running it.
Ultimate shame for never releasing a Blademaster class. I made an Orc with a Japanese name and everything.
aren't Blademasters just hybrids of Rogue (Wind Walk, Crit) and Warriors (Bladestorm)?
Not sure what Mirror Image would be though since they are illusions
I would say Monk/Warriors, making them Sword Saints.
Yeah Monk does fit them.
Although it's strange that Blademasters are the only one to use katanas when every other orc uses axes and stuff
Grom used an ax. Swords were a big thing for the Burning Blade specifically.
Was Grom actually a Blademaster in lore or was he just one in game?
Just in game
>aren't WoW classes just poor concepts mashed together from cannibalized WC3 units?
Yes
Besides them being obsessed with blades and having funny accents and names, there isn't really anything they have in common with Japan.
I mean where are their feudal lords? Do they have an emperor? A shogun?
They really aren't a very developed clan when it comes to history and culture.
I mean their most famous member is Samuro and we don't have the slightest idea what happened to him after that Founding of Durotar mission.
>The Burning Blade and Blademasters aren't actually Japanese they just are weebs larping as ones
>The accent is fake even
That'd be fricking hilarious
This would imply the existence of the actual Japanese in the Warcraft universe
>Blademasters don't even have a source for their unique mannerisms
>One guy just acted weird and they all copied him
Sounds legit.
Isn't that how cultures emerge in real life?
I miss Japanese orcs.
What's the deal with the Burning Blade clan anyways?
>Chieftain: None
>Clan Colors: Orange
>Background: The Burning Blade is not a clan as much as it is an elemental force of nature. Chaotic and unpredictable, the Burning Blade is a brotherhood of demented Orcs whose only objective is to raze and plunder with no regard for their own safety. This leaderless swarm is held in check by the Ogres - to be unleashed by the clans in times of urgent duress. The Burning Blade holds loyalty to no one and will attack any that they perceive to be a threat - even their fellow Orcs.
>Domain: Nomadic
Literal Black folk, as it should be.
Pre Horde, the burning blade was the "i study the blade" autism clan. During the Horde, they became what you posted. In the WoW era, they became less of a clan and more of a catch it all term for legion cultists.
>start out as sword autists
>degenerate into aimless sperg rage that makes them a danger to anyone and everyone around them
Fits pretty well, really.
Seems like a weird juxtaposition for a Burning Blade Blademaster to be a frothing berserker while employing the most disciplined form of Orcish combat
There have been talks about fixing Warcraft lore without retcons, but how about making some retcons of our own?
I'll start:
Instead of Dentarg being killed by Khadgar, he follows Ner'zhul into Azeroth and remains his servant after he becomes Lich King.
In Northrend he forms a mercenary band of ogres and ice trolls to assist Arthas and by proxy Ner'zhul's plan.
I'm not sure if he should die then or not but either way he ends up as a boss in the Icecrown raid.
That's a cool idea.
But maybe Khadgar cuts off one of his heads and thinks it fatal, but Dentarg survives it.
Then he runs with Ner'zhul with one if his heads still there.
Then Arthas kills him and revives him with two heads, albeit the decapitated head is just a floating skull cause Dentarg didn't preserve the flesh.
>In WoD, Garrosh beats Thrall clean in the mak'gora but does not kill him, insisting he will watch and see as he exposes the failures in his philosophy of peace
>However, when Garrosh returns to the Warsong encampment, he finds Grom with Gul'dan in his ear, who blames his steampunk direction for getting most of the Warlords killed off
>Garrosh is exiled from the Iron Horde and is horrified to watch Grom be the first to DREEEEEENK the felblood once again, making him realize that the old ways of the Orcs will invariably lead to enslavement
>Forced to swallow his pride, he appeals to the Horde and even Alliance to stop the monster he created
>The final boss of WoD is not Archimonde 2: Felfire Boogaloo but Chaos Grom (still supported by Gul'dan like in the original encounter)
>The expansion ends with Garrosh accepting his imprisonment for his crimes, but with the option to pull him out for a later conflict as a penal legion commander, finally at peace as he gets to do what he does best
do they still have the big ass trial during War Crimes?
Cause that sounds like a neat fricking idea.
Yeah, that's between Pandaria and WoD timeline-wise.
Would Garrosh still sperg out at the end or does he just quietly accept everything?
Wait FRICK I got the dates mixed up, WoD happened after the trial
I guess he just goes meekly to prison after
The post-WoD trial would essentially be a continuation of the one he sperged out of, taking into account those actions, but also him not killing Thrall and the sincere attempt at setting things right to avoid a straight death penalty.
Death Penalty was never on the table. The Celestials, who were the judges, didn't believe that Garrosh had to die.
Maybe not initially but with the added multiversal frickery it could've been on the table.
to be honest the Celestials using the trial to judge everyone else felt kind of strange
Like what were they even using their judgments for?
The whole thing in general always felt like a contrived excuse to allow WoD to happen, which in an of itself ended up feeling like a contrived excuse to set things up for Legion.
I'm betting that Blizz was unprepared for the full Legion invasion after MoP so just came up with some shit to try and keep players happy in the meantime
I think it was going to be
BC, Wrath, Cat, Leg.
BC and Wrath wrap up plot lines from WC3, cat resets the stage from Classic and Leg wraps up the whole metaplot they have been elaborating on since WC3 started justifying WC1 + 2.
Mists exists because they didn’t add Pandas in BC.
Wod existed to synergize with the wow movie but failed to match the release windows
also the WoW movie kind of sucked ass
Medivh being Garona's father from clapping orc cheeks on his interdimensional journeys was kind of a neat idea though
It's better to treat the movie as its own separate thing otherwise it's filled with retcons
>Dalaran floating from the start
>Doomhammer being a Frostwolf instead of a Blackrock
>Mag'har orcs going to Azeroth
>Blackhand getting killed by Lothar instead of Doomhammer
>The humans winning the First War
And that's from what I remember
the movie is in fact its own AU universe. Still, from a buisness standpoint it makes sense to have a movie about the first war coincide with an expansion that feature characters you got to see on the big screen (like Gul Dan)
very boring
>low IQ contrarian sperg
lurk moar
Whats the dream game you guys would want to run/play
I would love to have a game where we are all goblins wheeling and dealing across the world in the name of fun and profit (but mostly profit)
A megacampaign starting from the First War to vanilla WoW
Anon beat me to it.
Reminder that "Orcs Must Die" is literally just warcraft if Kurt Russle was there
>I shall join the faction that created the undead scourge that destroyed my homeland, killed my father, and murdered 90% of my people.
Why?
>Because I am addicted to Fel magic of course!
if anything Kael'thas should have enslaved demons as mana batteries and warlock magic sources for his people as a cruel and humiliating punishment for demons
Make him the "good guy with dark methods" antihero seen sometimes
Funnily enough thats close to what illidan was doing.
All the elf boy had to do was stay loyal.
An Illidari faction would have been sick to have in vanilla WoW
Blood Elves should have never aligned with the horde. Snobby high culture elves squatting among mud huts with skulls and spikes and forging friendships with trolls and orcs and undead is beyond moronic and immersion breaking. Its especially ludicrous if these elves go "Yeah, Garithos and Jaina totally fricked us over." while drinking ogre piss with the orc who pillaged his very homeland within living memory, without suffering cognitive dissonance.
Undead alliance make sense because their leader is, you know, a psychotic Blood Elf woman.
I'm more curious why the undead were even part of the Horde
She said she needed allies but what good military presence would the Horde offer? They're all the way in Kalimdor and any aid would need to be shipped over and take a lot of time.
It'd make more sense if she reached out to the blood elves first.
It's all because ye' olde red vs blue mechanics that was made to make PvP easier.
I remember my friend was convinced that Draenei should be part of the Horde, without making them Eredars. But still Akama in TFT mentioned that orcs were killing them en masse, putting this one in question.
Stop noticing things, alliance bot.
Warcraft 4 works better if you assumed WoW was going to have EverQuest style Reputation/Faction mechanics.
The Undead are the Undead, some may be friendly but clearly have some nasty motive for Londrean.
The Horde and Allience are each three allied factions who each like you differently. As you are the mighty world-travelling hero.
Night Elves are aloof and have their own area. Blood Elves you have to quest to get in unless you picked them at character creation.
Etc.
Each new race dropped in gets their own reputation meter.
Still fricking around with troll prints, does this seem like the right size compared to an ogre? The ogre is already printed, so it's what i'm comparing them to.
You could scale the trolls up a bit. They aren't quite as tall as an ogre (~9ft), but they're still one of the tallest races on Azeroth(~7-8ft).
The only actual issue I'm seeing though, is that ankles are way too twiggy on those troll models; their wrists shouldn't be thicker than their ankles.
They're all pretty hunched, the most upright one reaches the shoulders. And the ankle thing, yeah, but it's pretty hard to find twotoed models. No matter, these are supposed to be runty spearchuckers, the berserkers are the beefier guys from imagineminis.
Looks neat. What's the head gonna look like on that one that has a ball for a head?
An ogre? It's a modular set from battleyak.
Well do you have the model for the ogre head? I wanna see
They uh, turned out a bit runtier than i thought.
Sick, i printed some of those for a planned scarlet crusade team when i first started out, never really got whitemane right so it didn't go anywhere. Might give it another shot.
the head looks fine tbh, I like it
What colour are you making it?
thats a pretty nice troll mon.
Might be relevent, I'm working on an alliance themed army for OPR
Draenai as proxies for angels and an excuse for a good horned pin up mini
Neat, can you show us what you're using for Draenie? I've been wanting to hash out an Alliance themed army for ages but can't seem to find a good solution for Draenie characters or troops. At least not one that doesn't involved heavy conversion work per figure.
Battleyak and imagineminis are the only two i know of that does draenei in 32/28mm, otherwise it's mostly pinups and statues that dont print well at a smaller scale. Or maybe artisan guild tieflings, just got to mess up the legs, but that's simple enough.
Awesome! Thanks, anon. 🙂
Trolls are too cool for warcraft.
I actually agree.
There is stuff that’s been ruined by Blizzard who don’t know what they are doing and stuff ruined by Blizzard who do know what they are doing but the stuff that’s off to the side and not part of the central Orc vs Human conflict is cool.
I really liked all the subtypes of trolls
Kind of pissed that Dark Trolls are just extinct. They should be part of a night elf allies faction
Oh hey I actually have the first edition of this somewhere.
>Did Kael'thas deserve better.
He did.
>Why did Blizzard turn him into a loot pinata?
Because TBC's story was all over the place. Same with Illidan being a villain.
Following up on that:
>Decide to DM with friends one day.
>Offer a WoW idea to them while still keeping their characters as they are.
>Give this backstory explaining that during the end of their last battle, the Dark Lord they had slain had torn open a portal to another dimension, and flung them into what he thought was their doom; instead they landed in Pre-Vanilla, Post Warcraft 3 Azeroth.
>Land in the Barrens just outside Ratchet.
>Their money is no good since its not Horde, Goblin, or Alliance mint, so they decide to do odd jobs around the town while picking up hints of something happening in the Wailing Caverns.
>Players have never touched WoW so have them go around asking NPCs whats what.
>Since ones a Drow, Dwarf, Orc, and Human, and its during the ceasefire between the Horde and Alliance, no one really bats an eye too much. The Drow is called a Night Elf much to her dismay, the Dwarf is having a blast, the Human is confused by the weird looks the Orcs give her, and the Orc herself has no idea how to interact with the ones there that do speak to her, as they approach her in Orcish but its not the Orcish she knows(Its like a Dane who only knows Danish going to Germany and being spoken too in German.)
>Eventually they decide to go to the Wailing Caverns, but must complete a quest that has them take on the Murloc Shaman named Glumbo, the Doomsayer.
>They take his head after a short but harsh battle, and have a decision to make: Return his head and his staff to the Goblin offering it and take the reward, or try and use the Staff in conjunction with the head for the Wailing Caverns dungeon.
>Decide to stop here so we can pick it up next week.
>This was in Spring 2020 - Covid happens.
>Never pick this up again.
>This was in Spring 2020 - Covid happens.
Funny but this was like a ttrpg renaissance for me. I completed 3 campaigns during the covid years. I 've never been this prolific as a GM, and that was just because people lacked their general excuses to flake.
See, normally we would've but the Dwarf and Human are highly immunocompromised so out of necessity we didn't meet up. We tried doing it online but it wasn't as bombastic or the same, so we ended up all playing Foxhole instead.
Unfortunate
Have you thought of reviving the thing with the group?
I have, but we've all sort of moved on and begun doing our own thing. The Dwarf is a stay at home mom now, the Elf plays 40K and the Human is on a Traveler kick. I'll reach out to them but who knows.
Say anon, any chance there might be room for a random dork from /tg/?
Sounds fun
Would it be in character for the Kirin Tor of Dalaran to see a powerful young mage as a weapon or asset to use against their enemies?
Sure, why not. The Kirin Tor are not a monolith. Each archmage in the hirarchy has probably either an own agenda or is part of some larger interest group. And they where perfectly fine with using young Kadghar as spy to get intel on Medivh
Which ones would most likely do it?
>Antonidas
>Modera
>Rhonin
>Aethas Sunreaver
There's some others but I cannot recall them well.
Depends. Do you have a time era in mind? Who is this young mage supposed to be used against?
Pre WC3, after second war
I was actually thinking it that the youth would turn his back on Dalaran after he sees his teacher's notebook espousing how he is a useful weapon. I did want the knowledge he was being molded as a weapon to he known among the Kirin Tor and to have most of their approval.
As for against, he's just supposed to be a weapon in general against Dalaran's enemies. Also a noble of a strong family so the Kirin Tor feels it is weakening that family while strengthening Dalaran.
That would put Rhonin out of the picture, for at that point he probably wasnt an archmage yet. You could homebrew your own or just pic whomever you like most, really. Maybe its an early attempt to reform the Tirisgarde or create a new guardian of Tirisfal, just under strict Dalaran control. Maybe its a deterrant against new orcish agressions, the demons or some other force. Maybe he is of alteracii descent, because who cares about alterac nobles now anyways? Or maybe its Gilneas and he is another point of contention that ultimatly leads to the gilneas isolation. Could be Stormwind, with his family returning to rebuild but now lacking the next generation that was supposed to take over. Or a lordaeron family that later on is pushed or lured into the cult of the damned, because they played on their resentment towards the Kirin Tor
Aethas for sure.
Does the WC RPG recreate the feeling of playing vanilla wow?
I really liked being a nobody just wandering around exploring and doing small quests, and dungeon delving, until the game started focusing on endgame raids so much.
Thats less of a system thing and more dependent on your DM. At the end, the WC RPG is just DnD 3.5 with a few new things
Well, certain systems are more conducive towards heroic play, others towards mudcrawling.
I guess 3.5 is fine. I'd prefer a bespoke system though. I w fan made one
They have quite a lot of prestige bits in the 3.5 books, higher classes and set gear and artifacts, but you aren't beholden to use most of it and can stick to a low to mid level romp through some dungeon locales. The general power level of the setting is a step up compared to WoW's though by merit of being more fleshed out on stuff like the various defensive capabilities of the major capitals.
I wish Daybreak Miniatures would make a modular Orc Grunts set, would buy immediately. They’re the best Warcraft-inspired sculptors in 3D printing imo
Wait that's not Blizzard official?
Cause holy crap it looks almost 100% Warcraft orc
>Wait that's not Blizzard official?
It is
It's the grunt from Reforged
Oh.
Googling Daybreak Miniatures orc, it looks quite Warcraft-y still
Because of these posts I discovered Daybreak Miniatures and promptly ordered some orcs and dwarves. Thanks, bros.
I genuinely love the Warcraft artstyle, especially when it comes to dwarves and orcs. GW-style orcs look extremely moronic, goofy, and unthreatening. GW's dwarves look like gay babies without knees. Daybreak Minis seems to borrow heavily from Warcraft in the anatomy and artstyle of their races and I fricking love that. I'm so sick of gay baby dwarves and goofy gorilla orcs.