What's the appeal here?

>Give an example of a BGS game clone with this scope coming out this year.
Kid, you are in every one of these threads and you have been told how moronic that logic is a thousand times. "nobody else is making the same game" does not mean it's good. It just means Beth has a firm grasp on the market.

We don't know what Starfield has in store, we may be in for some cosmic horror transcendental kino once we contact the ayy lmaos

>we may be in for some cosmic horror transcendental kino once we contact the ayy lmaos
1) if they don't put ANY effort into the shit you'll spend 99% of your time exploring (like basic design of the game's major settlements), pulling some kind of interesting twist on the aliens themselves (who by the way are so far defined by the AMAZING imagination of "parts of their machinery can levitate) isn't going to save it.
2) this is a BETHESDA game. Why would they ever, ever waste energy or effort on something like that?
It's not like they need to placate old Morr-era fans like they had to with Shivering Isles.

>they fail horribly and make a game infinitely worse,
Kid, the last game that did stuff similar to Bethesda was KC:D, a game made at one third of the budget of Skyrim, and being an infinitely better game despite that.
We already had this conversation a thousand times, child.
>what does that say about Bethesda's games?
Nothing. It does say a lot about how absurdly shit your taste is, and how much of a brainwashed drone you are.

>Shut the frick up, I'm older than you by a wide margin based on Ganker's current zoomer metrics.
You are not fooling anybody, kid.

>The game that launched in an even more broken state than anything Bethesda ever made. Has a preset character, something Bethesda got tons of shit for with Fallout 4,
First of all: Seriously? You are going to pretend KC:D was more broken than Fo76?
Second of all: You have shit taste and don't actually understand anything about game design. There isn't much else to say. KC:D has better character build options, far more complexity to it's systems, far better A.I., better world, better POI's, and the combat, while rough and janky, has it's own intricaties and depth. It's a mechanically incomparably more complex and interesting version of the same open-world first person RPG/Sandbox.
Also, "quests are just fetchquests" - yeah, you absolutely never played KC:D.

>That does not make their game NOT GARBAGE
Okay, simple question, why do Bethesda's games sell and why do people want more of Bethesda's games from other studios? Doesn't work if it's a fundamentally shit series of games.

>why do Bethesda's games sell and why do people want more of Bethesda's games from other studios?
See

>but there's nothing to access in the first place.
I'm sure there will be a hundred dungeons that some poor intern had to throw together few weeks before release, and a hundred more "hillarious" random encounters.

>The entirety of bethslop is just doing fetch quests, holding W across copypasted terrain
Now that is not entirely fair. Every beth game includes a bunch of different gimmicks to chase after whatever was popular at the time of release, to woe in more children.
Oblivion had those "epic" super-scripted quests. Fo3 went even further with entire massive cod-style scripted battles. Skyrim had the "dynamic" dragon encounters, Fo4 hard the base building gimmick, Fo76 had the coop thing... they are doing things. It's just not good things.

>What exactly is the appeal?
If you are stupid, you will be rewarded by it doing all the basic genre tropes. That alone make it appeal to dumb people and children.
If you are also insecure, you will be super-captivated by the fact that the game does not restrain you in anyway. It's a form of "you can't tell me what to do anymore, DAD!" sort of satisfaction.
And finally, if you just completely shut your brain down, it's a simple skinner box scenario that will continuously reward you for a bread-crumb trail following. You get a simple objective, and a semi-randomized reward. It works for the rats, and rats are smarter than average Beth drone is.

and

>I feel like Bethesda haven't really shown enough about why this is a particularly interesting setting.
Welcome to how the older of us felt about every single Beth game after Morrowind.
Beth does not do interesting settings anymore. They focus literally all of their attention on being as mediocre and as unimaginative as humanly possible. This was true of Oblivion, Skyrim, Fallout 3 and Fallout 4.
The only reason why you are realizing this with Starfield is because you don't have a pre-existing bias for sci-fi settings. People with little taste are happy to just see familiar things. You are familiar with generic fantasy and generic post-apo, and so you accepted the shitshow that was post-Morr's Bethesda's slop.
You aren't familiar with pseudo-hard sci-fi (at least not as much), the bias isn't there, so you now see how bland Bethesda's "imagination" actually is.

These games are specifically designed to appeal to dumb and insecure people. They operate on the same basis as say, Stephany Mayer's books - they are idiotic, but they exploit certain really base instincts. Dumb people enjoy the familiarity of the settings, because it's the most basic form of pattern recognition possible, one so basic and lazy that even the biggest moron will "get it". The games are ABSOLUTELY accessible, so morons will never get "filtered" by them. They employ basic gimmicks that feed on current-day fads that children can get behind.

And, they are so efficient at all of this that they have very little competition, meaning most people who play them will never learn what a better take on the formula could be like.

>what games do you like?
I've been playing games in most genres for the last 29 years, so that is a bit of a broad question.
My all-time favorite franchise is pic related, but I play everything, from Factorio past boomer shooters to flight sims. I grew up with RPG's since fricking Dungeon Master 2. My favorite ones are the OG Fallout games, Gothic 1/2 and Morr, but I've beaten (and mostly enjoyed) every single infinity engine RPG. Icewind Dale has a particularly strong place in my heart.
I also love Homeworld, Bastion and the Anno franchise. If you want something more recent and bigger, Eternal was great, KC:D was fantastic, so was nu-Prey. Underrail was fine.

What exactly do you want to hear?

>kid kid kid
Frick off you pedantic twat.

I see I hit a nerve there.

Yes I like things you don't. I don't know why that should bother you. Do you get pissed because the person in front of you ordered a flavor of ice cream you do not like?

Go play a game you like instead of obsessing over people liking things you don't.

>Yes I like things you don't. I don't know why that should bother you.
I've literally explained what is wrong with these games, child. Why do Beth drones struggle so fricking hard with basic reading?

Genres are descriptors applied to categorize observations, they are not prescriptions to adhere to. Pretty funny that you are so butthurt about not getting talking mushrooms and aliens while simultaneously complaining about not being "challenged" by being spoonfed more talking mushrooms and aliens

>they are not prescriptions to adhere to.
Are you fricking not aware of the irony in what you just said?

If you want odd for the sake of odd shit they have an old game called Morrowind. The gameplay is ass but it is odd. Give that one a try.

>If you want odd for the sake of odd shit they have an old game called Morrowind.
Nice strawman child. But no, I don't want oddity for oddity sake. I want quality. In any form possible. I want effort. I want imagination, which is not the same as oddity.
But again, Beth drone reading comprehension strikes here too.

>You have explained why you don't like them.
No, I explained why they have no merrit on an interpersonal scale. Things like "putting in effort into your work" and "not treating the audience like complete morons" are more than just subjective preferences: those are universally recognized values in our society.
You literally can't read, do you?

If you play Morrowind it will tickle your odd for the sake of odd fetish . Trust me on this one. Morrowind is the game you are looking for. Be advised it is old as hell and plays like ass but it has the vibe you are looking for.
Quit being an ungrateful frick. I am helping you

> The architecture in Oblivion
Are you saying the Temples were poorly done? The ornate flying buttreses were top tier.
Was making each cities recognizable by its architecture a bad or lazy idea?

If that is the laziest they got in your opinion we are looking at what is known as First world problems.

shut up kid

>Way to oust yourself as a LARPing teenager. Anybody who grew up with Doom clones finds the term "boomer shooter" skin-crawlingly cringe.
Seriously, that is the best you can come up with?

>On fleek my fellow oldgays, let's go play some boomer shooters later this evening after we hit the arcades, gnarly.
This is beyond desperate. Hey kid, want to tell what is the cheat code for activating the tome of power effect? Wanna tell me what is the name of the secret level in Ep2, and what is the gimmick of it?
Wanna tell me what are the currencies in Dungeon Keeper 2, and how do you create a magic potion in it?
Wanna tell me what is the function of a Guardian and Magical spirit in Master of Magic?
What is the third episode in Jazz Jackrabbit one?
Which weapons were not included in the shareware version of Raptor?

> The architecture in Oblivion
Are you saying the Temples were poorly done? The ornate flying buttreses were top tier.
Was making each cities recognizable by its architecture a bad or lazy idea?

If that is the laziest they got in your opinion we are looking at what is known as First world problems.

>Are you saying the Temples were poorly done?
Yes. They were a terrible knock-off of english churches, reimagined by a bouncy-castle designer. It's a fricking polytheist religion, why the frick would you just make a bad copy of a neo-gothic fricking catholic church? Do you not understand the fricking logic of a church organization at all?

>Was making each cities recognizable by its architecture a bad or lazy idea?
It was a fricking awful execution of a bad idea. Lack of consistency removes any sense of continuous and difussing cultures, while the absolutely zero effort into the actual design makes them feel like a cheap theme park attraction. In morrowind, the architecture of the town itself could tell you a LOT about the culture and history of the place. Architecture of each houses alone conveys much about their history, place of origin.
Oblivion's city-design does not tell you anything but "snowy land city" (which is 10 minutes walk from the "mediterrenian land city) is like... viking. Because when people say snow in fantasy settings, it means viking houses. Once again, reimagined by a Disney land reject making bouncy castles for living.

there is nothing more to it. Bad copy of long-house because "snow". There is no culture, no history, no cross-polination, nothing. Just random theme park attractions.

>The goal posts. They have moved.
I don't think you have any fricking clue what the phrase "moving your goal-posts" mean.
>We have gone from laziness to they were knock offs.
Making a shitty knock-off is lazy, you absolute mongoloid.

>Did you just use Morrowind architecture as positive compared to Oblivion?.What did it for you?
The redoran structures being vaguelly insect-carapace shaped, which makes perfect sense not only because as you see among the nomads, insect shells were their main construction material, but also because their tear-drop-like shape helps preventing the wear-and-tear on the walls, an important thing for living in a near permanent dust-storm. And the fact that they actually hide most of their house under ground, because again - you live in a cold permanent storm, heat loss is going to be a major consideration.
This being a contrast to the Hlaalu architecture, which is build around much more temperate regions, and thus not having worry about things like dust wearing the walls down, snow threatening to cave in the roof etc. They have characteristic decor, but it's mostly very utilitarian - fitting for a culture born out of improvisation and pragmatic approach.
Which is contrasted with Telvany. You know, the insane giant towers of crystals and mushrooms that display how deeply their culture is intertwined with magic, represent how aloof their leaders are, to a point where they intentionally not have stairs leading to the upper quarters, because they believe nobody who can't cast a levitate is worth letting in?

>At least the Imperial architecture had some effort put into it.
The imperial architecture was BY FAR the most boring part of the world, though it still did work through sheer contrast to the other three cultures.
This is the problem I outlined here:

>Peak games criticism
It's garbage because it presents no challange and no ambition to do anything beyond the absolute bare minimum. It's a lazy approach. It treats it's audience as idiots who can be milked without having to put any real effort in. It appeals to morons, further normalizing bad taste.
It does not present anything of genuine value. The people involved don't need to have talent or creativity, there is nothing pushing them to do better than what people did before. Neither does it compel the players to think a little harder, to learn about new things, to refine their own tastes.

There is nothing valuable about cheap pandering to brain-dead morons. There is no value in mediocrity. These games have no creative merrit.

[...]
>I just don't care about games I don't like, why would I care?
People who have standards care for those standards to be upheld, because that means less garbage and more interesting stuff to go around.

You only like the Imperial architecture because you are absolutely moronic and that is the only FAMILIAR element of the settings. Your brain can make sense of "it has crenellations so it's a castle, I can make sense of that" but anything beyond that is already HOPELESSLY lost on you.

You are too dumb to appreciate how the other culture's architecture reflects finer details of their conditions.

>it's not real world building if I'm deliberately obtuse about the word architecture
This fricking guy lol

If you're going to be a pedantic twat, at least be competent in the language first.

Because there is no fricking way you didn't understand what he actually meant, and instead of addressing his incredibly long and well articulated point you simply pointed out that he used "architecture" somewhat incorrectly, and that's a big fricking somewhat, and then dismissed it. Now either you did that on purpose, in which case you wouldn't be so much obtuse as just a sealioning prick, or you didn't and that is a prime example of "annoyingly slow to understand."

>d out that he used "architecture" somewhat incorrectly, and that's a big fricking somewhat, and then dismissed it.
More to the point, I didn't use the word wrong at all.
Only one building in Morrowind is actually carved into a crustatian shell. All of the other Redoran houses are build of brick and mortar.
As for Telvanni - their houses are build. They didn't just find some shrooms and moved in. They plant special crystals, seed them with the fungi, then use soul-gems to directly control every aspect of the structure.
The fact that they use organic building materials does not make it "not architecture", because it is still entirely a product of "human" design.
There are houses right now that are being printed by 3D printers and even use a basic scafolding and let plants grow into it to form their structure, and it is fricking architecture. I've worked on one such project spearheaded by Todai university's department of architecture.

That kid just never played Morrowind, he heard about the one crab shell and saw the mushrooms but had no clue about their context. It's a joke.

>LARPing teenager listing off the most comically stereotypical gatekeeping facts he could quickly Google in a desperate bid to keep up the act while he calls people "kid"
Name five characters from Virtua Fighter 2.
Name the sponsor on the side of the car you drive from Daytona.
Name the first console game that has the FPS controls every game uses today.
Name every robot from Botmaster.
Name the amount of times I nutted in your dad's ass last week.

>kid kid kid
stop embarrassing yourself, christ you come off like a dweeb

sure, "kid,"

>kid kid kid
Frick off you pedantic twat.

Firstly, you post like an absolute tool. So I don't expect a cogent response here.
Secondly, it's hilarious you say Bethsoft is unimaginative but hold a historical game higher which is, by definition, less imaginative.
KC: D was pretty good and I thoroughly enjoyed my time with it. It is great when you are in the mood for more in depth combat, but less interesting and unique world. Sometimes you don't want to deal with convoluted combat mechanics though. Like it or not, Bethsoft is THE gold standard for open world RPGs it isn't an undeserved title. You pouting about it doesn't change reality.

hey kid, you're a homosexual, kid, so why don't you just frick off, kid

>Clearly you cannot make an argument for why it shouldn't be the gold standard because your vapid, asinine comments are filled with two faced commentary and incongruent arguments.
Is being completely oblivious to the sheer irony of your own claims another prototypal trait of a beth drone - together with just straight up consistently lying?

>You say Morrowind is superior for it's imaginative world but KC:D is better for superior combat while Skyrim has better combat than Morrowind and a more imaginative world than KC:D.
I didn't actually say any of that, that is just moronic shit you make up in your head because actually addressing what I REALLY said would be too hard.

I said that games putting in effort makes them superior. Morrowind puts in effort. KC:D puts in effort. Morrowind puts in effort by creating a unique, imaginative fantastic world that has a lot of depth and complexity.
KC:D puts in effort to create complex, interlocking systems as well as creating a world that is based on insane amount of hard work put into research, and again, detail - use of real world concepts mixed with their own imagination filling in the blanks.

Oblivion does not put in any effort into any of it. The world is brain-dead. The systems simplistic. The writing beyond abysmal.
Skyrim is only MARGINALLY better - having at least put some effort into the world design, though it's still LEAGUES behind Morr, and all the actual systems beneath it are even worse than in Oblivion.

To me, what matters is what the game does WELL. What makes it stand apart from similar titles. Where does the talent and the hard work of the people making it manifest.

Beth games have not put any talent into any of their aspects after Morr. They are the blandest gruel imaginable. They may have a lot of "stuff" in them, but none of it is actually worth the trouble, it's all the laziest shit possible.

>moving the goalposts
Let's add that to a list of things you lie about.

>The reason that Oblivion and Skyrim aren't as good as Morrowind is just base talent, not laziness.
Refusal to maintain the quality of writing is laziness, you pathetic goal-posting idiot. It is a lack of effort or ambition to maintain their quality standards. Because they realized that dumb people are easier to exploit, and that they can get away with being lazy.

Good writing, good world design, growing the size of your systems and depth: those require hard work and taking risks.
Bethesda decided that it's not worth investing that effort, and taking those risks. Because they don't have to. They just need flashy visuals and generic shit and morons like you will STILL DEFEND IT.

That is a lazy fricking approach.
>they are still objectively good games with content rich, sprawling and fantastical worlds that immerse the player.
"Objectivity" another word you really, REALLY should not use, child. There is a lot of shit in these games. But it's all shit. They stopped putting effort into their content, because they realized that as long as there is a lot of it, nobody will give a flying frick about the quality of it.
They copped out. They decided they don't need quality, they just need brain-dead children they can easily brainwash into the fricking cult we see here.

>Just because you are too jaded, narcissistic, and nostalgic to appreciate them doesn't make them bad.
You literally screech because I suggest: "maybe you should not be satisfied with the dumbest shit, maybe you should not just be part of the lowest common denominator".

Expecting something of quality makes me "narcissistic".
If that is the case, I'd rather be narcissistic, than being a drooling mongolid clapping furiously to a videogame equivalent of Dan Brown novel.

I want to be challenged, you brain-dead shitstain. And I'm not going to be ashamed of that.

>It is quite clear you lack the intellectual capacity to follow this diacussion.
Followed by:
>This is obvious by your assertion that bad writing is laziness instead of a simple lack of talent.
This is just fricking priceless, it's the worst attempt to distract by moronic semantics I've seen in ages.

"It's not bad because I arbitrarily replace the word "laziness" with "lack of talent" - and that will somehow magically make this shit writing not shit anymore.
All the while completely ignoring that A) talent isn't as important as hard work - that goes for writing as well, B) refusal to invest the time and effort to hire more competent writers is still laziness - they could have done better, they could have kept their previous writers, they could have hired new ones - but they just didn't feel like it.

They did not spend the effort to make the game good, you mongoloid. That is laziness, no matter how insane your next bout of mental gymnastics will be.

>They also improved their world design game over game, as I also noted.
The only improvement they ever made was between Oblivion and Skyrim, and it was marginal at best. Oblivion was vastly inferior to Morr, Fallout 3 was somehow even worse than Oblivion, Fallout 4 was even worse than that.

But what is the point of discussing this when you think saying "but the developer wasn't lazy - he just did not bother hiring competent staff, and that TOTALLY CHANGES THE FACT THAT IT IS SHIT, BECAUSE I CALL IT "Lack of talent" RATHER THAN "LACK OF EFFORT".

It's shit because they did not care enough to make it not-shit.

lol exactly, morrowind straight up sucks ass, this homie is tripping is he thinks overwise

>morrowind was a mediocre game that was improved on in every aspect , besides the main quest, by Oblivion.
Keep telling yourself that while you showel that brain-dead third-rate LOTR copy garbage in your mouth and ask for seconds.

I've explained a hundred times why it's garbage, why you are wrong, and you cannot put together a single coherent response.

You prefer Oblivion? Yeah, some people just like shit. But stop being dishonest c**t. Oblivion did not improve on anything, it just made it more accessible to idiots. You are an idiot. Of course you will prefer the game designed for idiots.

Just stop lying to all of us, stop pretending like you ever GAVE A SHIT about the quality of the game.
You prefer Dan Brown, I prefer Eco. I can't make you stop eating shit, but you need to stop pretending that DaVinci's Code is comparable, or even superior Foucault's Pendulum, for frick sake. Or that Oblivion is comparable or even superior to Morrowind.

Oblivion is dumber, lazier, uglier, and more shallow than Morrowind. Those are facts. Everything else is you trying to make yourself feel better about your absolutely shit taste.

>You have explained why you think things are better and think that is some Moses coming down from the mountain moment.
I would assume that the notion of wanting shit to be good, and not lazy dumb garbage, would be an actual notion we should all be able to agree upon, yes.
I prefer good writing over shit writing. I prefer creative world-building with a lot of thought and attention to detail, to dumb ugly brain-dead collection of the most worn-out tropes imaginable. I prefer systems to have an impact on my experience. I prefer sandbox games to have replay value. I prefer art direction that is inspired.
You do not seem to value any of these things.

Apparently, Beth drones do not share this sentiment that stuff that has ideas and hard work poured into them is preferable to the laziest garbage. To them, it's good by the virtue of being done by their favorite corporate pimp.

Don't worry kid, Bethesda only hits you because they care about you, b***h.

>You thinking it is shit is a you , and you alone, problem though .
It's a problem for nearly anyone who grew up with PC gaming before Gen7 kid.

I'm not alone on this, you just don't get to meet people my age a lot.

You live in a fantasy land where competent videogame writers both grow on trees and are readily apparent with cursory investigation. You assume Bethsoft has someone on staff competent enough to write Morrowind level stories or at least a hiring director competent enough to identify such a talent. This is all fiction you have made up for yourself.

Again, let me walk you across the stones gently. Morrowind was fantastic, if you can get past the archaic systems like I can. They gave up some of the magic of Morrowind in their transition to modern style games. They continued putting in effort, improving on those systems game after game. This effort is even quantified in the breadth of content that kept increasing.
Even their games you dislike compare favorably in most ways against other contemporary games in the genre.
Ergo, the games are not shit and certainly not so for lack of effort.

As a side note, it is hilarious you compare the TES games with the Fallout games when the Fallout games already had baked in worldbuilding and improved in content over each other. I don't know the specifics of any content dip between Oblivion and F3, but it was assumed there would be a dip when you are doing a soft genre shift with a newly purchased IP.

I sm going to guess you are not a fan of Emil. You will probably state he is a horrid writers.

Can you agree a clever phrase is asign of good writing? If so I am sure your favotite game would have many memorable lines. Would almost have to if you were correct.

So dazzle us. More likely you will turtle behind insults and wait for the beating to end.

> Why are you asking me questiins? They terrify me.
Sorry. I thought we were discussing video games.

You didn't provide any new arguments. You just pretended your old ones were still valid after being shredded. At this point there is no argument to be had. Your standard is in tatters, yet you wave it above your head triumphantly as if the last to leave is the victor. I am content letting you rule your empire of dirt. It means nothing to me.

They ditched a few writers holding them back. I think that wa the biggest reason for the improvement in Oblivion.

MKs biggest problem was he was an ideas guy that did not understand the medium. When you write a line like " Towers made of poetry" you have to understand while it sounds magnificent on the page you just fricked over the guys that actually do the work.
He may be talented but he lacks the skills that would make him a valuable member of a team.

Ideas guys are a diamond dozen. They are useless unless they can implement the ideas themselves.

How to tell me you are newbie without telling me you are a newbie

Depends. If the idea is really good they can survive off a grift. Generally, though, you are correct because the people actually doing the work revolt due to perceived labor value separation.

>I just assume that theu had to distance themselves from Kirkblade because he was on drugs and/or burnt out.
We know exactly what happened between Morr and Oblivion.
Toddy is a coward, with zero creative ambition. There is a famous interview on (I think) polygon, some kind of anniversary meetup where all the old creative minds of Morrowind got together, Todd included, sharing their memories of what it was like back then.

I really recommend reading it. There is a sizable portion of it dedicated to how most of the other writers - MK included - had to develop entire fricking crazy strategies on how to get more unique ideas past Todd.
They literally all say that Todd's single direct contribution to the creation of that world was saying:
"Don't make it weird guys, don't make it weird."

Todd likes money. He wants to maximize profits. Todd, like most businessmen, hates risk. Creativity is risky.
When Microsoft and Sony both reached out to Todd offering an utterly UNPRECEDENTED amount of money for making a game that would be easily marketable on Gen7 consoles, Todd realized that he can't keep taking risks like he did when he was FORCED into a position of leadership in Morr's development.

So he just removed anything that would be in any way threatening to the opportunity of making insane fricking dosh.
That is all there is to it.

Argument already wrappes up. It didn't go well for you because you backed yourself into a corner you were unable to escape and wanted to pretend game content does't take effort and writing doesn't require talent.

lol shut the frick up homie, we get it, you think morrowshit is the best thing ever, well go and whack off to it then cos your b***hing won't make it any less trash

I fricking miss the days where brain-dead children like you were not welcomed here...

I fricking miss the days where brain-dead children like you were not welcomed here...

lol homie, i bought and played morrowind after you homosexuals hyped it up on Ganker for years non-stop, it was a boring ass pile of dogshit with an ugly ass world and copy-and-paste npcs that spout out wikipedia-level bullshit, spent over 30 hours playing that trash and didn't find a single thing it does better than later beth games

oblivion and skyrim are far from perfect but i'd still rather play those any day than that whack ass game

african frontal lobes cant handle higher level cognitive processing. they demand immediate gratification and have no concept of the temporal dimension of space

skin looks natural.
its the disproportionate sense of authority theyve given into a dalit-tier caste of subhumans, when they should be servants.
you see this in the white house chick too. it looks absurd like a feminist or a troony trying to express authority over her betters. literal clown world.

>he is submissive to Black folks and women

>Considering every time someone tries to copy Bethesda, they fail horribly and make a game infinitely wor -ACK

>You have an irrational hatred of BGS, and blame them for the destruction of your favourite genre.
I blame them for impossing awful standards for this whole industry. Though honestly, it's not them I hate, it's idiots like you that actually defend that garbage.

>We have already established that there are barely any Bethesda game clones coming out.
There is no "we" here. This is something you keep saying as if it wasn't actually a point in my favor.
>It's an extremely niche type of game
Holy shit. Look up the meaning of the word "niche" you moron.

>RPG devs are certainly not copying Bethesda after Fallout 4 and 76.
That does not make their game NOT GARBAGE, neither does it change the fact that they studio has massively negative impact on the industry.

They are placating the older fans with the inclusion of the adoring fan. They seem to like include call backs for the nostalgia crowd. LaChance in Skyrim and the adoring fan in Starfield. The older crowd seems to like it.

>The older crowd seems to like it.
You have a very odd definition of "older crowd".

The really old timers , Daggerfall and Morrowind, are not pleased. The kinda old crowd though from Oblivion are pleased with the callbacks.

Daggerfall is old therefore good.
Starfield is new therefore bad

>Vast majority of people do not give a shit about games like this.
Yeah, it's not like Skyrim recently announced they sold 60 million copies, putting it ahead Super Mario Bros.
The frick are you saying here, you absolute monkey?

>If this wasn't a "niche" genre there'd be a big number of BGS game clones coming out every single year.
Holy shit what is wrong with Beth drones? Why do you struggle with basic language this hard?

How nice of you to cut off the next line of that definition:
"denoting products, services, or interests that appeal to a small, specialized section of the population."
The word Niche, coming from latin nidicare, means a small enclosed space, a recess - often used in architecture to place ornaments or small decorative objects, such as a bust. In older meaning "nest". Because it's a tight, small, enclosed area that only few have access to.
In terms of market and services, it refers to small areas that left behind by major product lines - a specialist, small-market area. In biology, it refers to highly specialized subsistence strategy.

And you are not only moronic, but also dishonest to a point that is fricking childish. You LITERALLY used the google definition but you had to CUT OFF the part you didn't like.
Did you think I won't just check it myself, you absolute mongoloid?

Are you 12? How did you think this is going to fly? Again: this is how a 5 years old lies.

>Because words can have different meanings?
No, they don't.
You were just caught lying child.
adjective: niche
denoting products, services, or interests that appeal to a small, specialized section of the population.
"other companies in this space had to adapt to being niche players"
That is the ONLY definition of the word "niche", it's literally in the same fricking place that you screenshotted.

You are lying. You used the word "niche" wrong and then deliberately removed the relevant part of the definition that proves you wrong, because you are a little fricking child who think he can somehow get away with that.

>And this wasn't even the point of the conversation.
There never was any point of this conversation, you drooling mongoloid. It's just you doing some of the worst mental gymnastics I've ever fricking seen, and lying through his teeth.

There never was ANY credit to any side of your pseudo-argument, which always boils down to "there aren't many other games like it which proves that it's not trash!"

Which is beyond moronic line of reasoning that you keep pulling up over and over and over in every single one of these threads.

>Of course. Words cannot have different meanings.
This one does not. You used this source for definition, child. Niche (ADJECTIVE, as in "niche game" means specifically what the definition states: a game for a small and highly specialized market.
There are no other definitions for it. It certainly does not mean "a game that does not have competitors" which is how you used it. In fact, that is the OPPOSITE of niche, it means "market monopoly".

>BGS catering to a specific niche is false.
>Meds.
Are you now talking to yourself? This literally does not make any sense at all.

>Still haven't addressed my point at all.
You don't have a point.

>You. Somehow. Believe. BGS. Is. Destroying. Your. Favourite. Genre.
Will you quote to me the post where I stated this?
Because this is not something I said. This is a strawman you created. If you want to claim otherwise, you'll have to prove it. I'm sure combing through this thread and finding the post where I make this statement won't be hard.

>HOW CAN THAT BE POSSIBLE, WHEN THEY HAVE LITTLE TO NO COMPETITION AND NO ONE IS MAKING BETHESDA GAME CLONES.
You are asking that yourself, since again, that is not actually related to my point.

Probably is the same anon. When he starts losing he pretends to be another anon who jumped in randomly.

Just repeat your point over and over. It is the only way to keep him focused

Corect.
People stood up to Bethesda and told them how shitty the combat was in Morrowind and Bethesda listened.
Listen to anon and don't be afraid to call out shoddy things like Morrowinds combat. It can make a difference

>People stood up to Bethesda and told them how shitty the combat was in Morrowind and Bethesda listened.
The combat in Morrowind had more depth and complexity than in Oblivion. Oblivion's combat is still garbage, it's just a different, more shallow and more accessible garbage. Instead of being abstract (and thus confusing to morons), they made it simple and utterly unengaging what so ever.

Does not scare the morons away, but is no more fun than it was in Morrowind.

And in the meanwhile, they ruined literally everything else about the game. The settings are shit, the writing is shit, the exploration is shit - it literally loses every single thing that made Morrowind interesting.

And when people complained about that, they just doubled down on it. Because it turns out, morons are easier to please and drain for money. So if they focus all of their effort entirely on pleasing absolute morons, they don't have to ever fix anything else about their games.

No, you were explicitly saying Bethesda was responsible for ruining RPGs.
Hell, I prepared this reply around a week ago but I was banned [...] then. Saved it on a txt file since I knew I'd find you having a mental breakdown over starfield. You're a dedicated BGS hater, after all.

The games are not garbage, but this is also something we went back and forth on for hours that time so I'm done with that.
I'll just say this:
BGS games have many features that the vast majority of games don't. Some people (like you) do not value these and instead put value on other things these games don't focus on. And so you dislike them. But not everyone is like you; different people like different things in games and there are people (like me) who really enjoy these kinds of games.

I do not consider myself a Bethesda fanboy - I'd like to see other companies try to make games like this; if only everyone was copying BGS as your paranoid ass claims. And if BGS started making on the rails movie games, I wouldn't be interested at all. What I like isn't a company, but a specific game experience.

>No, you were explicitly saying Bethesda was responsible for ruining RPGs.
WHERE.
DID.
I.
SAY.
THAT?!

You are lying again, you piece of shit. What the frick is wrong with you?

>BGS games have many features that the vast majority of games don't.
That does not make them good. Not even unique, actually, since in reality, everything that Bethesda does now has been done better by other games.

>I do not consider myself a Bethesda fanboy
Yeah, fanboy still implies agency, which you don't have.
You are a drone. A literal fricking NPC, a creature without any self-control or capacity for any form of critical thinking what so ever.

It's not appreciation that drives you, it's fricking slavery, a complete dissolution of personality or intellect due to insecurity so deep it gradually took over any and all of your remaining faculties.
Admitting the faults of these franchises is more horrifying to you than anything else in the world.

>hahaha I'm the one who is lying?
Yes.
Yes you are. There is absolutely zero doubt about this. You lied about the niche thing, went so far out as to deliberately cut of the lines from the definition.
You CONSISTNETLY claim I've said something about BGS ruining "my favorite genre". I asked you four times you quote where I stated this. Every time you fail, but you insist on claims that I did.

That is a lie. The fact that it is impossible for you to quote the post containing that claim is a proof of your lies.

You have been lying through out this entire thread, constantly, childishly.

>For (you). Maybe one day you'll understand that the world doesn't revolve around you.
For anyone with actual taste. Some values are universal, as we established here:

>Peak games criticism
It's garbage because it presents no challange and no ambition to do anything beyond the absolute bare minimum. It's a lazy approach. It treats it's audience as idiots who can be milked without having to put any real effort in. It appeals to morons, further normalizing bad taste.
It does not present anything of genuine value. The people involved don't need to have talent or creativity, there is nothing pushing them to do better than what people did before. Neither does it compel the players to think a little harder, to learn about new things, to refine their own tastes.

There is nothing valuable about cheap pandering to brain-dead morons. There is no value in mediocrity. These games have no creative merrit.

[...]
>I just don't care about games I don't like, why would I care?
People who have standards care for those standards to be upheld, because that means less garbage and more interesting stuff to go around.

>Just because you ignore the things these games do
I don't ingore it. I take a lot of time and effort analyzing them, and identifying what exactly is wrong with them.
See this debate:

>Did you just use Morrowind architecture as positive compared to Oblivion?.What did it for you?
The redoran structures being vaguelly insect-carapace shaped, which makes perfect sense not only because as you see among the nomads, insect shells were their main construction material, but also because their tear-drop-like shape helps preventing the wear-and-tear on the walls, an important thing for living in a near permanent dust-storm. And the fact that they actually hide most of their house under ground, because again - you live in a cold permanent storm, heat loss is going to be a major consideration.
This being a contrast to the Hlaalu architecture, which is build around much more temperate regions, and thus not having worry about things like dust wearing the walls down, snow threatening to cave in the roof etc. They have characteristic decor, but it's mostly very utilitarian - fitting for a culture born out of improvisation and pragmatic approach.
Which is contrasted with Telvany. You know, the insane giant towers of crystals and mushrooms that display how deeply their culture is intertwined with magic, represent how aloof their leaders are, to a point where they intentionally not have stairs leading to the upper quarters, because they believe nobody who can't cast a levitate is worth letting in?

>At least the Imperial architecture had some effort put into it.
The imperial architecture was BY FAR the most boring part of the world, though it still did work through sheer contrast to the other three cultures.
This is the problem I outlined here:
[...]
You only like the Imperial architecture because you are absolutely moronic and that is the only FAMILIAR element of the settings. Your brain can make sense of "it has crenellations so it's a castle, I can make sense of that" but anything beyond that is already HOPELESSLY lost on you.

You are too dumb to appreciate how the other culture's architecture reflects finer details of their conditions.

Which by the way ended up with the inevitable reveal that the person I was arguing against also LIED. Pretended to have played Morrowind when he provably did not play it.

Lying is a universal feature of Beth drones, it seems. I wonder why...?

Maybe because your motivations aren't actually morally solid. Maybe because your obsession with defending this shit comes from a place of fundamental internal dishonesty.

>Anyway, I think we're done here. There's no point in even replying to me further. Y
Kid, who exactly do you think that line will fool?

Also, next time you lose an argument, quit after your FIRST lie is revealed.
Seriously. When somebody catches you lying red-handed, that is where you need to give up and run away.

Not 20 posts and 10 more lies later.
Now run away like the little lying b***h you are, I'll see you grovel and humiliate yourself again in the next thread again.

>I don't know who you are trying to convince. The fans didn't like it and the devs clearly didn't like it either.
To be actually completely specific, the combat that most people know from morrowind isn't even the combat they intended for the game.

The game originally shipped with an entirely different combat model in mind. But it wasn't working properly. Eventually, the studio caved in an took a special accessibility mode (designed for people with disabilities originally), and simply activated it by default - essentially skipping 70% of the intended mechanics all together.

And yet still, Oblivion did not manage to do any better.

> Don't have to fix.
They fixed a ton of things in just the leap to Oblivion.
Voice acting for the NPCs so they weren't souless and boring cardboard cutouts.
Actually put effort into side and faction quests.
Hired actual art director so the worldspace wasn't so bland.

From Morrowind to Oblivion was s bigger leap forward than from Daggerfall to Morrowind.

I wasn't implying anything. I was clearly stating they were not souless cardboard cutouts.
Learn to read.

Name a Morrowind NPC with a memorable personality than the Adoring Fan .
Then Lucien LaChance
Then the argonian that tell ms the khajit joke

Vouce acting is an essential tool to give life to a gameworld . Essential

That wasn'tvthe topic being discussed. We were discussing the value of voice acting in making NPCs not souless cardboard cutouts .
Granted it is not the only thing Oblivion improved on , schedules, but VA was a critical step forward on making the world space feel alive and not sterile like Morrowind.

>VA allows more personalitu because it allows more nuance in how the dialogue is delivered, not in the complexity of what they say.
I've explained in great detail how that is a false assumption. Read the post or don't reply at all, shitstain.

>agree it is difficult to convey "personality" in text dialogue because you lose nuance
Actually, the opposite is true. It's easier to convey things through plain text, because the reader's mind can fill in a lot of the blanks naturally.
When you remove that element, you are at much greater risk at failing your goal because you need to have both the writing skills AND the acting chops to convey those nuances accurately. If any element of the presentation fails (poor dialogue writing, poor voiceacting, poor facial animations end so on), you are going to end up with something FAR more distracting, you'll slip into uncanny territories very easily.

A well written, well animated and well voiceacted character is a great thing, but a badly voiced or animated character is worse than just plain text.

Also, there is a fundamental problem with information density involved. A text can convey far more in far less time and with far less costs. Voiceacting is expensive and slow. You need to cut down on any non-essential details, both to prevent the player from just skipping the dialogue, and from preventing your costs ballooning out of proportion.

So: voiceacting has bigger difficulties conveying nuances, cannot support nearly as much information in the same time frame, if you get it wrong you'll get far more jarring and immersion breaking experience, and forces you to cut out huge amount of information purely to sustain this inherently less efficient strategy.

There are games where voiceacting can still be beneficial. If you can afford actually good voiceactors and animators. If your story is more focused, you don't need width of content - sure, go for voiceacting.

But none of those things are true of Oblivion. Or any voiced BGS game.

If you are going to lie at least try to make it believable.

You listed their character bio when the issue was about personality

What was Fyrs personality? Condescending? Absent minded? Jovial? Angry?
Nobody knows. He didn't actually have one.

The closest thing to a personality being shown in Morrowind was the gay Harvey Weinstein that sexually harrases you if you are male.
That is the only thing that comes close to a memorable NPC for being a memorable NPC.

The backstories may be fascinating but after a couple hundred wiki articles they tend to blend together

What do you think his personality was?
I believe there are many wikis that have every line of dialouge he speaks so finding evidence of this personality should be easy.

He did not have one. My proof will be your lack of being able to rebut my statement

Do you have a shred of evidence to back up that claim. He was just another information kiosk in a sea of information kiosks.
> Well I imagine he is lime that.
Your imagination filling in the gaps shows how poor the writing is not how good your imagination is.

Even uesp has every line he speaks. Not a single example of personality. Well outside of your imagination that is.

>Why wouldn't you expect to notice you get mad when you are losing?
Suprisingly enough, dealing with complete fricking dishonest morons also get's people's blood pressure high.
Unlike you, you cretin, I do not give a frick about who is angry or not, because that does not actually affect the validity of their arguments.

Only you, pathetic piece of dishonest shit, tries to pretend this matter, because actually tackling my points is impossible for you.

This kind of desperate mental gymnastics where you somehow convince yourself that people being annoyed with you is a point in your favor - despite the fact that it just shows you are obnoxious - is widely recognized as incredibly immature.

Hence the whole "U MAD" meme, which is literally poking fun at people like you.

Yeah, checks out for a Beth drone post. This is really the best you can do.

Graduated to big mad.
Weak.

>There are no layers of irony. You have shitty reading comprehension.
Kid. Not only did you fail to read what I wrote, but you did this in the process of defending Oblivion's dialogue system because you hate that Morrowind makes you read.

Which is fricking HILARIOUS.

Is spamming derailing?

What I meant by put more effort into side and faction quests was they put more effort into side and faction quests.

Mages guild quest in Oblivion with the dead mage in awell had more effort than the entire Morrowind mages guild questline. All it was was do random things until you are in charge.

Morrowind clearly put all the effort into the mainquest and bareboned the side and faction quests.

So at least you agree now they put more effort into Oblivions side and faction quest than Morrowind. It is a start.

Having you admit the obvious is harder than it should be so I take the win when I can

No, you were explicitly saying Bethesda was responsible for ruining RPGs.
Hell, I prepared this reply around a week ago but I was banned

>Kid, you are in every one of these threads and you have been told how moronic that logic is a thousand times.
I recognize you.
I had a back and forth with you over a week ago.
I checked and after I left you still kept going with another guy, for the rest of the day. I thought I was a no life NEET, but damn.
I saw you in another thread after and wanted to reply to you but unfortunately I was banned for a few days.

You have an irrational hatred of BGS, and blame them for the destruction of your favourite genre.
It's bizarre. We have already established that there are barely any Bethesda game clones coming out. It's an extremely niche type of game (the games themselves certainly are popular but very few devs try to copy the formula).
No modern RPG devs are emulating Bethesda, you are getting spooked by ghosts my dude. Even as far back as 2015 Witcher 3 was the reference in RPG design, not Fallout 4.
RPG devs are certainly not copying Bethesda after Fallout 4 and 76. Fricking rockstar and ubisoft had a greater impact on RPGs than BGS. Hell, it's a well documented fact that RPG darling cdpr was obsessively trying to chase rockstar when developing its games (and you can see plenty of ubislop inspiration there as well).
Bethesda games are literally just there existing and that makes you shit and piss your pants, it's hilarious. You cannot comprehend how people different from you have fun in different ways and enjoy different things in games. And you somehow think a literal handful of games are destroying an entire genre even though no one bothers copying them.

then. Saved it on a txt file since I knew I'd find you having a mental breakdown over starfield. You're a dedicated BGS hater, after all.

The games are not garbage, but this is also something we went back and forth on for hours that time so I'm done with that.
I'll just say this:
BGS games have many features that the vast majority of games don't. Some people (like you) do not value these and instead put value on other things these games don't focus on. And so you dislike them. But not everyone is like you; different people like different things in games and there are people (like me) who really enjoy these kinds of games.

I do not consider myself a Bethesda fanboy - I'd like to see other companies try to make games like this; if only everyone was copying BGS as your paranoid ass claims. And if BGS started making on the rails movie games, I wouldn't be interested at all. What I like isn't a company, but a specific game experience.

You blame them for not making games you like. Your sense of entitlement is off putting.
Consider this. If nobody makes games you like perhaps you just have shitty taste.

Yes I like things you don't. I don't know why that should bother you. Do you get pissed because the person in front of you ordered a flavor of ice cream you do not like?

Go play a game you like instead of obsessing over people liking things you don't.

If you want odd for the sake of odd shit they have an old game called Morrowind. The gameplay is ass but it is odd. Give that one a try.

Are you the schizo I'm replying to?
He stopped replying to me.
Still waiting for his response.

And devs don't copy BGS games for a couple of reasons.
1) The average person can play and enjoy a game like this, but they don't particularly care about what makes it unique. Only a portion of the audience does. Which is why the vast majority of big games coming out are completely on the rails.
2) It's ridiculously difficult to make - and the larger the scope the more difficult it is to make it. Polishing a game in this genre is also a very hard task.

Do you have anything you want to say or...?
I'm still waiting for the schizo response to

>I blame them for impossing awful standards for this whole industry.
>That does not make their game NOT GARBAGE, neither does it change the fact that they studio has massively negative impact on the industry.
Still seething, I see.
>little to no RPG devs copy BGS
>very few games like this are made
>BGS GAMES ARE RUINING RPGS AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH SAVE MEEEEEEEE
Do you not realize how moronic you sound.
>Holy shit. Look up the meaning of the word "niche" you moron.
Vast majority of people do not give a shit about games like this. It's one of the reasons why other developers don't bother making these kinds of games.
They're popular with a specific audience.
>There is no "we" here. This is something you keep saying as if it wasn't actually a point in my favor.
It isn't. Are you mentally challenged? You're the one claiming BGS games are ruining your favourite genre. How could that be if very few developers are trying to make games like this?

If you're a different guy I'm not that interested in arguing with you, sorry.
I get it, you don't value the unique things BGS games do. That's fine. Other people do though. Different people enjoy different things in games.

If you are the guy that was replying to me before, continue the conversation instead of going back to a previous reply.
If you're not, then I don't really care. Once again, you don't see value in the things BGS games do. Other people do though. Understand that your tastes in games are not universal.

I know know that people enjoy Cardi B and use Tiktok religiously, doesn't mean I have to understand or accept it.

Not a smart lad are ya

>6 posts in now to tell me he isn't gonna talk to me
Ding ding, we have a weiner

>not interested in arguing with you
>keeps doing it
Sure showed me eh

>3 times to say he isn't talking to me
>can't figure out that in not the same guy
If I said I was would you address my point that being produced for as wide an audience as possible with a large budget is almost the antithesis of actual quality and artistic merit?

>Just lol if you think anyone is making games with this level of ambition.
Spacebourne 2

>Spacebourne 2 is cool but there is a clear gap in quality. Impressive game for how small the dev team is though, I think it might just be one dude?
Yes single dude. I wish he would focus on polishing rather than adding more and more features. But man if he ever manages to finish it is going to be a thing.

>I just wish he made decent gamepad controls. I'm not a big m/kb guy. I'll accept the mediocre graphics and ai voice lines for an ergonomic control scheme
It is on his roadmap... IMHO controls is the first thing he should fix... what's the point in an awesome game with shitty controls?

a dev said event horizon, the sci fi horror movie with lawrence fishburne, was one of the inspirations for whatever he was working on
i expect we will get some horror stuff

Fan of being herded in your open world games are ya? Kinda defeats the purpose of making an open world game doesn't it?

No arguments so insult!

>And I only use VATS so i don't care about gunplay.
You could've just said that you have braindamage.

>slow-mo
>rpg
Thanks for confirming that bethesda drones are braindamaged.

Elon's company has launched over 10000. Youvare easily impressed and by your logic Space X should be the inspiration for Starfields logo .

As it is Starfield is using a gay dogwhistle to show support without drawing fire like Bud Light .

Well you got me to reply to it anyway. So it did work.

Give an example, peon.

Of games I like? I'm playing P3FES since the remake got announced and I haven't played it since it originally came out, and I'm looking forward to Trepang coming out soon.

Of it the raging narcissist he won't answer. He only attacks.
The only chance you have to get him to answer is to frame not answering as an act of cowardice and surrender.

Why do stupid homosexuals with shit taste think "Name a game you like" is some sort of powerful attack that scares people? You're an idiot.

>I play more games than you
>give an example
>here's an example
>why didn't you answer my question?
Why are you so impossibly fricking stupid?

Which question am I not answering? Be specific instead of acting coy to feign having a point.

>no actual question
>talking in circles despite the fact that I listed games in the next reply after being asked
So you're a shitposter angry that they got called out. Makes sense. Everyone who thinks "Name a game you like" is some kind of gotcha accusation is a moronic homosexual with no exceptions.

>It was a simple question about why people don't answer questions
Except it wasn't. It was a non-sequitur because I did in fact answer the question. Why do you hate getting called out for not reading so much? If you'd like to pretend you had a point, then feel free to show me where I didn't answer a question, otherwise it's clear you're just shitposting and on damage control.

>Why don't people like answering questions?
I did answer the question I was asked. Why did you ask why people don't like answering questions when that never happened? The basis of your question is fundamentally flawed because the thing you brought up didn't happen. Real answer only, or I'll take that as an admission of being a moronic shitposting homosexual.

>more coy damage control
Very brave of you to openly admit to being a moronic homosexual shitposter.

>Why don't people like answering questions?
I'm just going to step in and call you out for being such a blatant homosexual.

Give an example, peon.

This was a question

Of games I like? I'm playing P3FES since the remake got announced and I haven't played it since it originally came out, and I'm looking forward to Trepang coming out soon.

[...]
Why do stupid homosexuals with shit taste think "Name a game you like" is some sort of powerful attack that scares people? You're an idiot.

This was an answer
The rest is you getting angry about something that didn't happen.

>he lets his mom nag him to death
proof israelites have a mother complex and subjugate all of society to their matriarchy

oh yeah
any pets or animals in the footage? i think there was a cat in concept art

wonder if we can take aliens as pets

bethesda games have always been about as many companions you want