Why are games focused around emergent gameplay so unpopular?
Why are games focused around emergent gameplay so unpopular?
Community-driven video game blog & discussion
Community-driven video game blog & discussion
Why are games focused around emergent gameplay so unpopular?
God I fucking LOVE emergent gameplay
Ganker is too fucking stupid to understand the immense emergening
>emergent gameplay
explain this buzzword to me, Ganker
pure kino
Why couldn't you just jump through the window
Too fat.
Not emergent enough.
Would you? Glass is sharp.
Prey can't crawl.
Though he can't metamorphose into a cup and roll through the window.
THAT'S THE EMERGENT WAY
SOVL
this was such a monkey's paw
all these beautiful elegant solutions to problems but there are so many for any given situation that all content is essentially always accessible by multiple means
there are no trade-offs in choosing what to pursue as it is unlikely any choices will significantly impact your route through the game or your access to resources
idk how they'd even fix it but it seems like they made the bones of an excellent game and then QA tested it too hard (if that makes sense)
The limiting factor was always meant to be your own mind.
this is true, but when the game is balanced around having 80IQ the average player will never ever be significantly inconvenienced in any way
there was almost never a need to think for more than five seconds about any given problem
i'm a moron and I found it too easy. this is an issue imo
You underestimate how retarded the average gamer is
yeah man I'm just saying I would have preferred if this problem-solving flexibility were a strength of the game instead of a gimmick that has little actual impact
>idk how they'd even fix it but it seems like they made the bones of an excellent game and then QA tested it too hard (if that makes sense)
Fun fact: QA testing too hard is why Bioshock got streamlined to fuck in the last year-ish of development. They were making an immersive sim (or at least a deeper FPS/RPG hybrid) for most of production but they then showed to a bunch of focus testers who fucking hated it and wanted something more like Halo. So they spent the last year of dev time cutting and streamlining features to turn into more of a 360 console shooter. That's why Bioshock's always been the weird one as far as immersive sims go. It's all in the postmortem Irrational did with Gamasutra shortly after BS's release:
https://www.gamedeveloper.com/design/postmortem-2k-boston-2k-australia-s-bioshock
I don't disagree with you an Prey. It's definitely got some issues that seem to be from too much QA. But considering what happened with other games like Bioshock we should really consider ourselves lucky that Prey exists in the form it does at all
...sigh.
Prey's not perfect, but I'm impressed that it got made the way it did in the first place.
combat is the same. You kill 100% of enemies with melee, ranged, or magic, big fucking wow.
Maybe it feels different when exploring the world.
How did I know this was a foam dart webm before even opening it? Boring as fuck. Glad Prey flopped
i did that for the fucking piano room at the start, across the fucking room, got it on first try, kino af
The security station in the Arboretum is purposefully difficult. I had to stand really far away and then ricochet the dart off of the counter.
gameplay changes based on how player interacts with environment
if developers care for emergent gameplay they will create a lot of environmental interactions to create room for interesting approaches to problem solving
not all games follow this design philosophy, in fact most - don't, I can break it down for your further just let me know how thick sculled you are
why create a new term just to describe minecraft?
Because most of the games in the OP predate Minecraft by a decade.
no one that matters played that old shit, everybody played minecraft though
no one has spergcraft in their 3x3 because it's dogshit for 13 year olds from 10 years ago
boomer is angry because kids these days don't care about his prehistoric slop lmao
oh so the new zelda game that instantly became a best seller and everyone is talking about
yeah so unpopular
Just seems like you're describing sandboxes.
And why is emergent gameplay restricted to the environment? Wouldn't it be applicable to all systems in games, including things like physics, AI, scoring, etc? Isn't emergent gameplay just a fancy term for systems interacting in unexpected ways, resulting in complexity for the player to handle/play with?
Honestly, compared to many sandbox games, the games in the OP have relatively little emergent gameplay. I'm not saying they're bad games, just that most of the moment-to-moment gameplay doesn't come from simple systems giving rise to complexity.
Systems designed to allow logically unpredictable moments
>e.g. You shoot a fire arrow at a barrel
>Simple design: On collision, detect arrow type. If fire, burn barrel
>Most design: On collision, determine what tagged projectiles hit the barrel. Since there's Fire trigger barrel burn animation with some input physics
>Emergent design: the fire object traveled at some velocity and collided with a static barrel, let's see what happens with our systems (fire burns things with wood, barrels roll if moved with enough force, etc)
The real issue is that the rapidly decreasing gain of graphics is causing more people to yearn for game realism by different means, often by looking to what impressed them in the past
Emergent design is a strong tool, but that's all it is. Relying on it to create engaging moments for you and haphazardly inserting it into any genre thinking it will be "next-gen" is a blindingly naive mindset - or at best, a very divisive one as TotK is proving once again
That said, if this is what it takes for developers to stop making Uncharted clones 16 years later, I'll gladly take it
It's liminal and emergent with a ludokino aesthetic reminiscent of retro games of yesteryear. Its inclusiveness and diversity isn't problematic like games developed by the alt-right chuds who don't recognize all 746 genders and races as equal under Marx's holy words.
I felt my a bit of mu brain leaking out my ear as I read your post anon. Good job
Here's Harvey Smith and Randy Smith explaining it for an hour back in 2004 while specifically referencing how it works in Deus Ex and Thief:
it's when you're feeling super smart for figuring out an unorthodox solution, while being not sure whether devs even intended it as a possibility
it's when things don't go as planned but instead of reloading you prefer to push through
So BotW?
Yeah, but more so ToTK
That too.
why even webm this
i cant fathom something more boring
GTA V is the 2nd best selling video game of all time
If you think GTA V is an immersive sim then you're an idiot.
We’re talking about immersive sims?
Yes, retard.
OP post doesn’t mention it
Ok, now look at the image he posted n relation to what he typed.
Sounds like you baited yourself into a mistake anon.
The only one baiting is you.
>Putting Prey in there
Fuckoff
What even is “emergent gameplay” that’s just a buzzword that doesn’t mean anything
Why does everyone jerk off Prey? The map and enemies are so fucking bad.
I agree that it's not good, but whenever it shines it's truly an experience like no other
I liked Deus Ex. Didn't like any of those others games.
enjoying ss1
looking forward to the remake
What kind of "emergent gameplay" is there in ss, have you noticed any?
Quake rocket-jumping is an example of emergent gameplay
Not sure if you're joking or not but it absolutely is.
Zelda Tiktok is selling bazillion copies because of all the retarded shit you can do by exploring the game's systems. emergent gameplay is popular, reading emails on people's computers isn't.
This. For some reason its taken devs decades to learn that people like options and creativity in their game and they dont just wanna run down hallways and watch cutscenes
I don't think it's really emergent gameplay that's unpopular, more so the specific execution. techno trenchcoat guy in a space station laybrinth with computer codes, it's the sort of thing you'd get a wedgie for.
But it's fun.
prey's main issue was the ink cloud monsters, horrible design to sell your game on.
I didn't realize Prey was literally prop hunt in space
Prey is reverse prop hunt in space. There are enemies that can turn into small to medium size items like chairs, boxes, etc.
they barely do that
and even when they do they aren't enough of them to be a threat
i swear, if prey had system shock type enemies it would be 10 times as good. idk why they had to bring in a calligraphy expert to design the enemies.
Immersive sim isn't a real genre. Prey 2017 sold badly because it was awful.
Immersive sim enjoyers are the new equivalent to the /r/atheism fags. It's the pseudo intellectual genre of video games basically.
It's not a genre.
True that it isn't a genre, it is important to clarify that their delusions are simply what they are. But when they start mentioning shit like Newtonian physics governing gameplay: that's when they get their fedoras out and start tipping it right in front of you.
>But when they start mentioning shit like Newtonian physics governing gameplay
But that's really not what happens in immersive sims? Ultima Underworld had basic Newtonian physics, which was impressive cause y'know it was 1992, but it's still pretty fucking basic shit. It was Trespasser that was really ground zero for physics governing gameplay but most people don't even count it as an immersive sim
You just sound like a pseud when you say shit like this.
EMERGENT
DEVELOPER UNINTENDED WAYS
ACT/REACT
etc.
Go back to r3dditCodex.
Fine. But if you're gonna insult people and call them fedora-tipping atheists at least get what they're saying right. Cause otherwise your insults don't work and you just sound like you lack basic reading comprehension.
>Fine. But if you're gonna insult people and call them fedora-tipping atheists at least get what they're saying right.
I did get what you're saying right. You said newtonian physics governing the rules of gameplay. I laughed at that and called it pseudo intellectual babble.
No. I literally said that in immersive sims newtonian physics don't govern the rules of gameplay:
If you somehow got 'ACHSHULLY newtonian physics do govern gameplay' then I think you're either taking the piss or retarded
Atheism isn't a religion either. Tell that to your flying-spaghetti-monster in the sky you inbred, redneck fuck. Read Hitchens for once instead of the Bible.
do games have to be in first person no matter what to be considered imsims? Because the new Zeldas share the same gameplay philosophy but I never see them brought up in these discussions.
I think being in the first person is required. Every single one is for one reason or another.
The new zeldas also aren't immersive sims.
Because half of the time they're janky and unpolished as shit, with most of their highlights being more interesting on paper than in execution.
>Implying that 'janky' and 'unpolished' are bad things
Zoom zoom
Goddamn I love it when gameplay emerges
>tfw prey died because zoomers found it too confusing for their ADHD brains
At least we got Redfall, right?
Prey died because no one wants to play as a chink unless he's a samurai
It died because it stole a name, and on top of that was quite average. Misunderstood masterpiece my ass, it was prop hunt in space with a pretty crappy story and didn't do anything new. The crafting system was a straight copy of Fallout 4 and was very uninspired. The combat was just very average and quite boring overall. The enemy AI didn't even react until up to 5 meters. The only thing it somewhat excelled in was puzzles, but that doesn't make up for the rest of the game being shit.
Sequel when?
I prey to God that someone makes a VR mod for this.
Could you use that to make women smaller?
Yes
(You)
i wonder who this gaydev was. he was pretty off about it being a bioshock clone, but he seemed to have some resentment towards the team.
>Bethesda pays employees to make Bethesda studios and their own games look bad
Meds
>Bethesda pays employees to make Bethesda studios and their own games look bad
They do exactly that, though.
And why the fuck would they do that, schizo
>They do exactly that, though.
Then why do they keep making games involving Arkane? that's just retarded. I don't doubt they smear Human Head on the average, but they're not doing the same with their other studio. Time and time again they should have dropped them for making games that don't sell and that hasn't happened.
because "emergent gameplay" is a redditoid buzzword for incels who watch "game analyst essays" on youtube instead of having sex
redditors hate emergent gameplay.
>redditors hate emergent gameplay.
redditors love buzzword terms like that, you'd be mistaken.
found the redditor
>"Emergent Gameplay"
Buzzword
>emergent gameplay
Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom are mega popular. The issue isn’t emergent gameplay, the issue is complexity, normalfags get filtered immediately if they have too many systems to juggle.
emergent game-play isn't as unpopular as you think since they sold just enough to make sequels and successors every other year. Arx was a case of stacked year probably, but inbetween prey and arx, dishonored sold a fuckton. Immersive sims sure but emergent game-play is such a loose term you could apply to alot of games. An unpopular dead game mechanic now is finding health for example.
BOTW while not an immersive sim has some emergent gameplay and people at that shit up
>BOTW while not an immersive sim has some emergent gameplay
Then by your own retarded definition it is one. Shut the fuck up, it's not a genre.
I haven't defined immersive sim though and never claimed that it's a genre. What demons are you fighting son? do you also get angry when someone calls a game with I frames both new and retroactively a soulslike?
Emergent gameplay =/= immersive sim, moron. Is GTA IV an immersive sim now because you can drop a gun and have it fire due to this, killing someone?
>Is GTA IV an immersive sim now
There is no such thing as an immersive sim. It's pure mental illness you're trying to define, but can't define. It's not even a coherent philosophy that you can put on paper because it starts running into all sorts of contradictions.
Tears of the Kingdom is an imsim unironically.
Please remove Prey. Does not belong on that list cause of how boring it is.
>Please remove Prey
Remove the whole idea of this genre people are trying to define because these classics like Thief, Deus Ex and System Shock belong nowhere near Arkane's actual pile of shit cheap imitations that pale in comparison to their inspirations. All of Arkane's games are soulless.
Old Arkane made Arx tho so ill give them that.
Any shodanbros excited for the remake?
I want to be, but for right now I’m only cautiously optimistic they don’t streamline it to death.
SS1 could definitely use some streamlining in certain places.
out fucking skilled
seriously, just apply a B'Serk patch and then go to town
remake possibly finally releasing at the end of this month
This is the first time they settled on a date on Steam, it's on the countdown timer. Means it's likely happening for real this time.
I played the backer beta.. it's really fucking good.
One of the rare cases when remake looks pretty soulful.
It should be after almost a fucking decade of development
>System Shock remake
I wasn't really sold based on the demo.
I hope they improved the melee combat. That's the only thing i think that needs work.
because world is full of gays who need shallow gameplay and FOMO microtransactions
normalgays love arkane and nu-deus ex
Sales say otherwise.
>unpopular
You filled the OP with tons of very famous games that are still loved and regularly talked about by gamers today.
I think he means unpopular in the places he usually goes, being the mainstream retard he seems to be.
Ganker is not hardcore and obscure and neither are any of the games in OP aside from maybe Arx Fatalis. All those games are widely known even if not a ton of people have played them. They're very famous.
Not really, at least not to every single new generation. Show me a zoomer that even knows about original thief games.
We've all played these games and OP's question is stupid and you can choke on my dick, pedantic gay.
You really need to spend more time outside of your hugboxes if you think people haven't at least heard of Thief. You're way too up your own ass about how 'knowledgeable' you are.
IT's not about being esoteric, it's about being relevant
Do whatever the fuck you want, can't wait for the big Thief comeback.
>can't wait for the big Thief comeback.
? is there a new game being made? i can't imagine a stealth game doing well in today's market. Even Splinter Cell's remake is unlikely to see the light of day.
By what the other anons are saying, the thief series is well known and liked by zoomers apparently, so I can't wait for the inevitable Thief-style game comeback.
Gloomwood is basically zoomer thief
>Show me a zoomer that even knows about original thief games.
Me, Thief is not some fucking esoteric series
god, Prey really is the love letter to the genre, isn't it?
>to the genre
It's pretty good. Much closer to a System Shock successor than BioShock ever was. Mooncrash was also really good.
WOOOOOOOAH this game has... multiple ways of completing the mission... it must be LE IMMERSIVE SIM
>Deus Ex
>unpopular
>Prey 2017
>good
Yes
Nope
DEUSEX WHERE ARE YOU, I LOVED EVERY ONE OF THEM TRUE CYBERPUNK GAME, EVEN MANKIND DIVIDED IS MY 2ND FAV SEX GAME, PLEASE COME BACK ADAM JENSIN THE MOST BADASS SEX CHARACTER
>mfw Deus Ex died for Marvel's Avengers
Because fucking around with objects to try and make a boring encounter interesting isn't a winning strategy, and trying to balance maps around stealth and action means you end up with levels that aren't any good at either.
If you ever get caught in an action scenario in Thief, it's game over.
Why isn't Stalker on there 🙁
It's fun.
Because they're just boring stealth games.
I feel like there was a point around Deus Ex Human Revolution and Dishonored came out and it was pretty popular but then people just moved on instead of playing the sequels.
Without going into the retarded is-it-or-isn't-it-an-immersive-sim? question, Zelda ToTK's super popular right now.
>gigapozzed Prey everyone with taste sharted on at release is now...LE GREAT
Because they're effectively impossible to market to a target audience. Whatever you latch them onto will ultimately result in disappointed players because they didn't get it.
>arkane dev makes his own game
>people hate it because M-MUH FIRST PERSON PERSPECTIVE
first person perspective was eventually added. that was not the problem, but I also think a lot of people didn't realize weird west was clearly a smaller game with a limited budget.
No I hate it because it’s mediocre as shit. It’s like a really shitty Desperados 3 stuffed with procedurally generated dogshit missions
huh
thats pretty crazy
They are, they are just open world ones like Fallout 4 and GTA
Can't really explain why it's not popular with general players, but I can explain why it's not popular with me: I don't like videogame sandboxes.
I like straightforward games like arcade games (Pac-Man, Bomberman, Bubble Bobble, Tetris), beat-em-ups, platformers, shmups, and action games, all with very clear goals and clear methods on how to overcome challenges, with the only hurdle being the player's skill (or, rather, lack of it) preventing them from overcoming that challenge.
It's why I also can't stand open world games. My eyes just glaze over.
Because people don’t like to feel like they’re “breaking the game” or that something is “anticlimactic”
People want to feel like they’re part of an impressive spectacle that plays out just as it was intended. This is why movie games are so popular
What are you talking about BotW/TotK is extremely popular.
what's even "emergent" about thief and ss2? they're linear games
hitman is a more emergent stealth game
>Deus Ex
Honestly, the first playthrough was mediocre as fuck.
The second or third playthrough were more fun for some reasons.