>Casually dismantles worldbuilding to make a shitty joke

>Rare but not too rare
>Doesn't take up much space
>Doesn't decay
>Isn't usable for anything else
It fits all the criteria for a good currency

One thing which I haven't seen mentioned is that bottle caps are typically made from aluminium which no one in the wasteland could actually produce due to the prohibitive energy costs. In some sense it would then be a precious metal.

The Water Merchants were not a proper government that had to spend through inflation. They used real assets to maintain their power and pay for shit, ie their monopoly on water, and everyone answered to them as a result. Bottlecaps were used as proof of work and could be exchanged for some water with the merchants, and this existed because it is easier to carry around a cap than a thing of water and it's not like caravanners needed all of their promised water immediately. The bottlecap was directly fixed in value to a quantity of water and was more an item of convenience that became a currency than an intentional form of currency itself. And the actual economy itself is still built on barter, these caps are really only used to round out transactions as opposed to buying and selling things wholesale entirely with caps.

>NV
caps in new vegas are backed by the hub merchants, specifically the crimson caravan, which makes sense because they'd be one of the first organized groups to venture out to vegas
the NCR dollar still exists, but is not actually backed by anything because the BoS depleted the NCR's gold reserves, which is why some npcs accuse it of being worthless (not payable in specie)
Legion currency also exists, and is pressed from precious metal much like the original NCR dollar was

caps are basically a gameplay convenience because it would be annoying for the player to deal in 2-3 different currencies, including whatever an independent vegas would use otherwise. however, obsidian still bothered to implement 3 competing currencies and provide rational explanations for their presence and relative worth.

you're just parroting bethesda's explanation, which is that the physical characteristics of caps are what caused people to use them. gold may be just a pretty metal (at least traditionally), but it requires industrial / machining capacity to mine and process - a point that fallout 2 makes by having only the NCR trade in processed ore, while redding and new reno use the ore itself.

shit's all gay and moronic

They aren't establishing caps as a currency, that was entirely an unintended side effect of what was really meant to just be an IOU system from a group that had monopolized the water supply. Like I said, caps are directly fixed to an amount of water. The initial intent of the cap was literally "it is lighter to carry this around instead of your water". Most people still stuck to a barter economy, but they realized "oh shit these Water Merchant IOU's are actually a pretty good way to round out a transaction". Caps becoming a currency in Fallout 1 is similar to something like cigarettes becoming a currency in collapsed economies. It has a fairly inflexible demand, someone will always want them for consumption, but they are still a pretty small unit of value while also not being stupidly bulky. It's not like the Water Merchants saw that they needed to build the roads, necessitating a need for spending through inflation. If they want something done, they can just pay directly with their real assets. It just so happens that their real assets aren't comfortable to carry around, so they hand you a cap instead and you can feel free to swing by for a swig of water in exchange for it whenever you please.

What he is saying is that water formed a reserve currency and caps acted as bank notes which can be made and traded without a government and are not fiat. Still moronic though, the british in the dark ages just used sticks for the same purpose and talley sticks would work better than caps not even sure how caps would work

Caps were a short term measure that came about organically. There was little thought put into, it was literally "oh shit what do we have laying around that we can give you so we know we owe you water... oh well we have a big pile of bottle caps and I don't many of this are still around the Wasteland today". It is a notably inefficient system, and one that isn't really built to last (which is why you'll notice that "wealthy" characters like Gizmo also have very clear assets where most of their wealth actually is, instead of just sitting on piles of bottlecaps)The actual economy itself still largely operates on barter, people trading commodities for other commodities, and caps are only there to round it out, being the equivalent of physically putting water on the table in a trade. Once humanity moved beyond trading guns for cans of beans and actually needed a proper currency in Fallout 2 instead of just bartering like cavemen, they actually started printing money or used gold to trade.

you must get no pussy to care about this shit

You're not a virgin? Get the frick out of here and go live a normal life and have sex while we argue over a fictional worlds currency you loser!

Not an argument

barter system sucks balls which is why a medium of exchange is used. your gay argument is destroyed by this

>Explain to Ceaser how he can save loads of recources on getting slaves to mint his metal currency with European history and sticks.
>He's in shock at first at your insane stupid idea, then disbelief as he realizes what you're saying is true.
>His ego's huge so you have to walk him through each step by step system of how the "currency" works and how he could control it while using almost no effort.
>With high enough barter and INT you can convince him to use sticks.
>By doing this the legion get a few new roles around camp shifting to production and tallying of these sticks while all the metal is now being made into bullets spears ect boosting their war economy massively.

Because Ceaser is an educated idiot mimicking the roman empire, he just never learned about european history so he couldn't employ a better system for the wasteland.
He is literally just larping as the romans.

>[Speech 90] You're right, individually the currency is as weak as a twig.
>[Barter 100] But as a united currency, we form a MIGHT homosexual.

10/10

Shifting a whole region from one currency to another is a bother?

>Why was the Commonwealth using bottlecaps in the first place?
Because Nuka Cola was consumed that much across the country pre-war. That's the whole point of bottlecap currency in the setting in the first place, it's fricking everywhere and has no use besides to be a bottlecap. Sticks can be used for kindling or to make weapons, tools, structures, etc.

The frick you talking about moron? NCR dollars in Fallout 2 were also coins. Shiny and minted, but still coins.

?? You can clearly see Nuka cola written on the caps.

>Last I checked, there is no water merchant fixing these rates in Fallout 4, or any Fallout after Fallout 1
NTA but Fallout 3 is literally about your dad going up against big water.

Yeah but water vendors will be out of a job if free water is around for everyone. You think the enclave was the man behind the curtains, but there was an even shadowier man behind the man behind the curtains.

>know the blade runner pistol is in 1
>Decker?
>Maltese Falcon?
>time to get myself that gun
>bust down his door
>cap his ass, not without great fricking difficulty
>rifle through his pockets
>all he fricking has is throwing knives
>the gun is a reward from some fricking bum down the street who won't even give it to you until you're an arbitrary level

>accidentally saved Hightower
>never even met him because his doorman told me to frick off

>that image
I like how the show manages to perfectly capture the fallout games in that the main story is absolutely shit but the world and sidequests are entertaining.

Oy vey, we are the Hubs chosen people! We brought order to the West Coast!

Because pre-war currency comes in varying states of disrepair.

>Currency can be found anywhere
>Has a more valuable form (bones) rather than sticks.
>Is easily identifiable to the person and given the worth the person issuing it gives
>Can also be used by larger groups with ease if they have anyone who knows how to work with wood or carve things.
We need a fallout 4 stick mod immediately

>ESL
Oh you’re on of those “never seen a white person” type of third world monkey.

Anon you could make the same argument about how gold is useless now.

so why are bottlecaps a problem

who cares

That system seems way to easy to game on the issuers part. Could literally just snip off a bit more of the stick and bye-bye guarantee. I know that the feudal system rested alot on mutual trust, so people weren't so keen on getting a reputation as a scam artist, but that still just seems like a really easily gamed system, or even a system susceptible to accidents.

who cares

I care anon.

You are fricking with me, right? This is a shitpost or I am just incredibly confused. They were not fricking tithing sticks in order to reduce the supply of sticks in the stick market.

You know, I never read up that much on how Medieval contracts were upheld, I guess I just assumed that they used their fancy signet rings to stamp wax seals as a method to verify contracts and things like that. I am convinced this stick thing had to be a fairly niche that was prevalent in tiny part of Ingerland for a couple years, because it just seems like such an absurd system.

considering there's an entire industry dedicated to helping people store their sticks off-shore so that the government can't take them
not that crazy

>The split tally of the Exchequer remained in continuous use in England until 1826, when the conditions required for activation of the Receipt of the Exchequer Act 1783 (23 Geo. 3. c. 82), the death of the last Exchequer Chamberlain, came about.[13] In 1834, following the passing of 4 Will. 4. c .15, tally sticks representing six centuries' worth of financial records were ordered to be burned in two furnaces in the Houses of Parliament.[14] The resulting fire set the chimney ablaze and then spread until most of the building was destroyed.[8]
I am going to have a fricking aneurysm. Frick new earth creationism, I am a tally stick denier. This is looney toons ass shit.

>For will, for you see, check this 15.
he was trying to predict his post number and failed sadly, just like the NCR.

The forth session of Parliament under King William the forth, chapter 15.
>4 (forth) Will(iam).IV c(hapter) 15

>One of the refinements was to make the two halves of the stick of different lengths. The longer part was called stock and was given to the party which had advanced money (or other items) to the receiver. The shorter portion of the stick was called foil and was given to the party which had received the funds or goods.
>stocks are fricking sticks
No fricking way. Nuhuh. Not biting this bait.

You just went full David Graeber, never go full David Graeber

Also apparently the Brits managed to burn down their parliament when they finally decided to get rid of their stick collection in the 19th century.

Maybe if you are some commie gay that thinks society fundamentally doesn’t work without some overbearing authority figure. Good business is the best business.

They would often have multiple safeguards like a signature or stamp mark across the break.
This is still how it is done in 3rdie countries where they don’t use computers for their contracts.
They will have to notarize and stamp every single thing and make sure the stamp is across both parties copy.

>tfw you are the designated keeper of the sticks for the local lord
>someone disputes something
>have to spend all week going through the hoard of broken popsicle sticks

>Be me, Stick Keeper
>Working for my lord who's at war with some other fricking dickhead lord for control of england while the welsh occasionally come by to litter our town and castle with arrows.
>I hate this fricking job but it's better than working the fields and I can't just say no to my lord.
>Some dumbass comes in and demands his pay (more sticks) while also asking me to verify a stick he got from someone else.
>Frick I have to spend hours searching through our fricking COLLECTION OF STICKS TO FIND THE ONE THAT FITS.
>Suddenly get brilliant idea when issuing out the sticks I'm supposed to manage.
>"Oi, sir? I'm going to need to carve a number in that."
>Guy looks confused, explain to him how I plan on carving a number onto his stick, then the other half of the stick so I can more easily search for them if anyone comes to verify the stick.
>He's confused but agrees.
>Begin carving numbers into more sticks, along with other random symbols.
>People begin getting antsy, ask me to "verify" their sticks by carving into them.
>They're fricking counterfit sticks.
>Turns out like half the town were using counterfit sticks and inflating our currencies value
>Bust a massive counterfitting group completely by accident, guards take them to the lords dungeons.
>Get a promotion, since the lord is so happy with my work.
>Head-Wood-Carver.
>Even more fricking wood carving and now I have to train a bunch of people he pulled from the fields to help carve the sticks.
Anons if he wins this war we better start using metal currency.

No, every character you ask (including old Enclave remnants) tell you the NCR just killed every man, woman and child who was ever part of the Enclave.

>I am fairly certain the Crimson Caravan already has the capacity to manufacture their own weapons
Well you would be wrong because the Gun Runners and New Canaanites do that, Crimson Caravan specializes in caravans and logistics. Van Graffs may or may not produce energy weapons. I'm leaning toward "do not" because their stock is really low durability and Gloria expresses interest in where Mr. House stores his robots.

Liberty Prime is something you'd find in a pre-war patriotic movie in the Fallout universe, not something the government itself would develop.

Fallout was not farcical, it was a depressing and brutal adventure through a cautionary and ultimately hopeless tale. Fallout 2 is where the farce began to kick in. New Vegas is significantly less silly than 2.

>American soldier shooting a POW in the head and waving to the camera while his buddies laugh is not farcical
there is a small mountain of liveleak videos demonstrating this is neither unrealistic nor farcical
>muh mutants
go back to the toll booth, mr. hines

go back to the toll booth, mr. hines

>And those aren't broadcasted on live television, moron.
They would be in a Third World War situation, remember how Captain America and Donald Duck used to beat up Japanese caricatures, western mainstream media celebrates drone footage from the Ukraine war etc
>You also have no argument for the mutants.
It's literally shit America tried to do IRL

>there is a small mountain of liveleak videos demonstrating this is neither unrealistic nor farcical
And those aren't broadcasted on live television, moron.
You also have no argument for the mutants.

The First World has never broadcast a prisoner getting their head blown off. It's farcical for Fallout to portray America to do such.

inb4
>well that isnt identical to a man being shot despite being the literal same thing otherwise so it doesnt count

yes, the press and pundits and everyone in between were told by the dubya administration to celebrate
to imply something like "the western world would never glorify cold-blooded murder on television" makes you either a disingenuous fricktard baiting for replies at 5AM or such a brainless fricking moron that you probably paid money for fallout 4

Black person if you split that hair any more desperately you're going to set off an atomic explosion

>And those aren't broadcasted on live television, moron.
few years ago president of serbia broadcasted tortured corpses of people killed by some crime group. It's not that far fetched

You clearly don't understand, if a story contains something that doesn't exist in real life then the tone defaults to wacky and silly. It's a farce and must not be taken seriously or attributed any weight whatsoever. This is the actual thought process Bethesda executives have by the way.

The Van Graffs do manufacture their energy weapons. The Crimson Caravan is also trying to put a tariff on the Gun Runner's equipment, and the exact words used in the quest are
>The quality of the Gun Runners' armaments is due to their manufacturing process
Which seems to imply that the edge the Gun Runners have is based on quality, not the total inability to manufacture weapons on part of the Crimson Caravan. Especially since the moment you steal the holotape, Alice says they are going to manufacture their own weapons immediately, which also indicates they already have the facilities set up.

>Especially since the moment you steal the holotape, Alice says they are going to manufacture their own weapons immediately, which also indicates they already have the facilities set up
It seems more like the Crimson Caravan would be willing to divert funds to some kind of gun manufacturing process now that they have proven schematics. Also everything you buy from the Gun Runners is in top condition alongside whatever unique weapons they offer, which is something only they offer, and thus a hint that only they are actually producing guns. What else would differentiate them from Crimson Caravan if Alice, etc. were already making guns? Not using pig iron?

>What else would differentiate them from Crimson Caravan if Alice, etc. were already making guns? Not using pig iron?
Well, presumably their production process which leads to higher quality firearms. Just because Norinco can build a gun doesn't mean that gun is as good as the alternatives. Which is why McLafferty wants the process. Also the Gun Runners are highly decentralized. Their factory is directly in New Vegas, which probably keeps costs down.

That's why I said I am fairly certain. And I laid out my evidence
>Crimson Caravan actively wants to tariff the Gun Runners specifically
>Crimson Caravan is able to "immediately" begin using the Gun Runner's process when you steal it, implying that they already had the facilities set up
>McLafferty specifically mentions the reason to spy on the Gun Runners is specifically because they manufacture higher quality weapons, as opposed to her simply saying "we need to know how to manufacture weapons at all"
As for what you said:
>Alice wouldn't have you breaking into a competitor's manufacturing plant to steal schematics if they already had an idea on how to produce a gun from scratch
That's the whole point going back to the quality thing. Just because you know how to manufacture something does not mean you understand the most efficient processes for its manufacture. To me, it seems like the Crimson Caravan is able to manufacture weapons, but they are of lower quality as a result of a worse manufacturing process. Otherwise they wouldn't be able to immediately start producing using the Gun Runner's process, as they would still need to get their own infrastructure in place to manufacture if none existed in the first place.
>Producing guns is also not a simple process, especially not if you want to make something like a functional anti-materiel rifle.
The NCR is a fairly functional state, there is an educated class of engineers and scientists within the NCR. It's not like the expertise doesn't exist.

>Even Caesar's Legion actually invents shit, like healing powder.
braindead tribal morons had healing powder in 2 using the exact same recipe, the legion didn't invent shit

>If you mean guys like Hildern he mentions the OSI are a pretty new phenomenon
I mean just in general. For as far back as before Fallout 1, almost a century and a half before the events of New Vegas, you had the United Atomic Workers, the Gun Runners, and the Brotherhood manufacturing weapons. There are alot of people with the expertise and knowledge to manufacture firearms.
>She doesn't say that, she talks about schematics.
>"The quality of the Gun Runners' armaments is due to their manufacturing process. They craft all weapons on-site. I want to know the secrets of their manufacturing process, which means you'll need to find some way to get inside their heavily-guarded factory."

And like I said, Alice McLafferty further goes on to say:
>I hear it's business as usual at the Gun Runners, as if nothing unusual happened. Excellent work. We'll be able to use the schematics you acquired to begin manufacturing our own weapons immediately. We'll provide some to you at a discount
Keyword being immediately. Now I will say that this isn't certain. Because she also says "begin manufacturing our own weapons", but that is couched in stealing the methods of their manufacturing process. To me, it is a toss-up between "we will begin manufacturing weapons" as an absolute thing or "we will begin manufacturing weapons [with this process]". Personally, because she says immediately, I am inclined to believe that the Crimson Caravan already had a weapons manufacturing division, otherwise it would take time for them to put together the infrastructure for that manufacturing.

None of that makes sense considering how much the game tells you that Legion forbids any technology at all, so much to the point that Caesar has to ask you pretty-fricking-please to step into a bunker owned by House just to destroy shit. And he won't even step one legionary foot inside to make sure you did, so you can literally turn on a robot factory underneath his camp and he'll believe it was destroyed just because the ground shook.
Man that's dumb. And I'm supposed to believe the NCR doesn't have people who understand radio, and the Legion does? I would roll my eyes at that shit if I saw it ingame.

Anon, the first game starts off right off the bat with a silly cartoon followed by a comical execution.

What is that image supposed to prove? All he says is "We wanted to make another RPG but not another sequel to A Bard's Tale and so I made something that ripped off a movie and an RPG." That's got nothing to do with what we are talking about.

And? That still doesn't say anything about tone. What does say something about tone is the content of the game which is frequently silly and light-hearted. The very first thing you see is silly and light-hearted.

Nah, just that the weird obsession with pre-War America is the evidence for why Bethesda doesn't "get" Fallout

I see. I wonder if people actually want to figure out what's going to happen. The shows seems to have good score. Could be good special effects making idiots go wow, tho.

Point taken.
Good, normalgays are so hopeless.

The frick do you mean?
A quick browse of metacritic for those titles and Rings of Power has a mid critic score of 71 and piss poor user score of 2.8. Invincible season 1 is also mid critic score of 73, high user score of 8.1. Season 2 is an average critic score of 82 and a worse user score of 5.9.
Good score my ass.