Never played fallout but I'm guessing the problem is that it wasn't actually 200 years ago?
You're fricking moronic, characters can say things that aren't true
No moron, it's that bottle caps have an actual lore reason why they are used but nu-bethesda fallout fans don't know it because it's never actually explained and to be honest it doesn't actually make sense for societies on the East Coast to even be using them so bottle caps have just become a meme currency.
This. Bottlecaps made more sense when they're just a means of rounding value in barter. They were never supposed to be in place of fiat currency, e.g., you get 2000 bottlecaps and buy everything with them.
It isn't lorebreaking. The whole point is that it draws acute attention to something that actually is lorebreaking (the inexplicable continued use of bottlecaps on the East Coast), then proceeds to play it as a joke when it is a legitimate question about the setting. There absolutely should be people seriously saying "why the frick are we using bottlecaps".
>why the frick are we using bottlecaps?
Large in quantity due to Nuka Cola's pre-war popularity, small enough to work as a coin and, due to Bethesda's decision to use it for Fallout 3 and Obsidian's decision to use them in NV, universally accepted everywhere in the US.
>Rare but not too rare >Doesn't take up much space >Doesn't decay >Isn't usable for anything else
It fits all the criteria for a good currency
1 month ago
Anonymous
Besides not decaying, none of those things are relevant to a currency. And the untarnishable aspect of caps is suspect as well.
1 month ago
Anonymous
One thing which I haven't seen mentioned is that bottle caps are typically made from aluminium which no one in the wasteland could actually produce due to the prohibitive energy costs. In some sense it would then be a precious metal.
>Large in quantity due to Nuka Cola's pre-war popularity
So hundreds of other things like, for example, ammunition. Unlike ammunition, bottlecaps carry absolutely no inherent value. You can't use them for anything, they can't be consumed. They would only be valuable as a currency in themselves as opposed to a non-durable bartering good. Essentially, an abstraction as a store of value. Something which would be subject to supply and demand as well, you would need an organized force to regulate supply and uphold demand with a guarantee. In which case: > small enough to work as a coin
Why not literally just use coins. I don't know if you have every held a bottlecap, but they are incredibly flimsy. You can bend one in half with your hand with little effort. Not to mention, they are susceptible to rust. If they issue was "we need something light weight to work as a coin", I could think of plenty other better options. Like minting literal fricking coins, because if there is an organized force capable of regulating the fricking bottlecap market, then it surely has the capacity to run a mint.
So either the Commonwealth is a shithole, in which case people would be using non-durable goods which have inherent value (like alcohol, cigarettes, and ammo) to trade. Or at some point (or currently) there exists an organization within the Commonwealth that could regulate a currency, in which case.... they should use a currency. Bottlecaps were only used in Fallout 1 because the Wasteland was in an incredibly unique situation where the barter economy was dominant but a massive monopoly could guarantee a currency
As for: >due to Bethesda's decision to use it for Fallout 3 and Obsidian's decision to use them in NV
These were both shit decisions. New Vegas was born out of not wanting to make things too complicated from Fallout 3, but I still disagree with the call even if I understand it. Also, this is a meta reason for why bottlecaps are used, not a proper in-universe reason.
1 month ago
Anonymous
The Water Merchants were not a proper government that had to spend through inflation. They used real assets to maintain their power and pay for shit, ie their monopoly on water, and everyone answered to them as a result. Bottlecaps were used as proof of work and could be exchanged for some water with the merchants, and this existed because it is easier to carry around a cap than a thing of water and it's not like caravanners needed all of their promised water immediately. The bottlecap was directly fixed in value to a quantity of water and was more an item of convenience that became a currency than an intentional form of currency itself. And the actual economy itself is still built on barter, these caps are really only used to round out transactions as opposed to buying and selling things wholesale entirely with caps.
>NV
caps in new vegas are backed by the hub merchants, specifically the crimson caravan, which makes sense because they'd be one of the first organized groups to venture out to vegas
the NCR dollar still exists, but is not actually backed by anything because the BoS depleted the NCR's gold reserves, which is why some npcs accuse it of being worthless (not payable in specie)
Legion currency also exists, and is pressed from precious metal much like the original NCR dollar was
caps are basically a gameplay convenience because it would be annoying for the player to deal in 2-3 different currencies, including whatever an independent vegas would use otherwise. however, obsidian still bothered to implement 3 competing currencies and provide rational explanations for their presence and relative worth.
you're just parroting bethesda's explanation, which is that the physical characteristics of caps are what caused people to use them. gold may be just a pretty metal (at least traditionally), but it requires industrial / machining capacity to mine and process - a point that fallout 2 makes by having only the NCR trade in processed ore, while redding and new reno use the ore itself.
shit's all gay and moronic
They aren't establishing caps as a currency, that was entirely an unintended side effect of what was really meant to just be an IOU system from a group that had monopolized the water supply. Like I said, caps are directly fixed to an amount of water. The initial intent of the cap was literally "it is lighter to carry this around instead of your water". Most people still stuck to a barter economy, but they realized "oh shit these Water Merchant IOU's are actually a pretty good way to round out a transaction". Caps becoming a currency in Fallout 1 is similar to something like cigarettes becoming a currency in collapsed economies. It has a fairly inflexible demand, someone will always want them for consumption, but they are still a pretty small unit of value while also not being stupidly bulky. It's not like the Water Merchants saw that they needed to build the roads, necessitating a need for spending through inflation. If they want something done, they can just pay directly with their real assets. It just so happens that their real assets aren't comfortable to carry around, so they hand you a cap instead and you can feel free to swing by for a swig of water in exchange for it whenever you please.
What he is saying is that water formed a reserve currency and caps acted as bank notes which can be made and traded without a government and are not fiat. Still moronic though, the british in the dark ages just used sticks for the same purpose and talley sticks would work better than caps not even sure how caps would work
Caps were a short term measure that came about organically. There was little thought put into, it was literally "oh shit what do we have laying around that we can give you so we know we owe you water... oh well we have a big pile of bottle caps and I don't many of this are still around the Wasteland today". It is a notably inefficient system, and one that isn't really built to last (which is why you'll notice that "wealthy" characters like Gizmo also have very clear assets where most of their wealth actually is, instead of just sitting on piles of bottlecaps)The actual economy itself still largely operates on barter, people trading commodities for other commodities, and caps are only there to round it out, being the equivalent of physically putting water on the table in a trade. Once humanity moved beyond trading guns for cans of beans and actually needed a proper currency in Fallout 2 instead of just bartering like cavemen, they actually started printing money or used gold to trade.
you must get no pussy to care about this shit
1 month ago
Anonymous
Do you have any fricking idea where you are right now?
1 month ago
Anonymous
You're not a virgin? Get the frick out of here and go live a normal life and have sex while we argue over a fictional worlds currency you loser!
1 month ago
Anonymous
the lucky ones then
pussy is worth staggeringly less than the child it concieves
1 month ago
Anonymous
Not an argument
1 month ago
Anonymous
stayed in the thread just to say: I've fricked women that are several times out of your league, and you're a fricking dweeb.
1 month ago
Anonymous
barter system sucks balls which is why a medium of exchange is used. your gay argument is destroyed by this
1 month ago
Anonymous
>Why not literally just use coins.
they are effectively coins. they are already minted. why not use them? >you would need an organized force to regulate supply
no you don't, nobody's printing them anymore
>NV
caps in new vegas are backed by the hub merchants, specifically the crimson caravan, which makes sense because they'd be one of the first organized groups to venture out to vegas
the NCR dollar still exists, but is not actually backed by anything because the BoS depleted the NCR's gold reserves, which is why some NPCs accuse it of being worthless (not payable in specie)
Legion currency also exists, and is pressed from precious metal much like the original NCR dollar was
caps are basically a gameplay convenience because it would be annoying for the player to deal in 2-3 different currencies, including whatever an independent vegas would use otherwise. however, obsidian still bothered to implement 3 competing currencies and provide rational explanations for their presence and relative worth.
you're just parroting bethesda's explanation, which is that the physical characteristics of caps are what caused people to use them. gold may be just a pretty metal (at least traditionally), but it requires industrial / machining capacity to mine and process - a point that fallout 2 makes by having only the NCR trade in processed ore, while redding and new reno use the ore itself.
shit's all gay and moronic
1 month ago
Anonymous
>gold may be just a pretty metal
It also very importantly never deteriorates unless exposed to certain materials
I don't like the use of caps in New Vegas either moron.
use stick
1 month ago
Anonymous
TRVE
1 month ago
Anonymous
>Explain to Ceaser how he can save loads of recources on getting slaves to mint his metal currency with European history and sticks. >He's in shock at first at your insane stupid idea, then disbelief as he realizes what you're saying is true. >His ego's huge so you have to walk him through each step by step system of how the "currency" works and how he could control it while using almost no effort. >With high enough barter and INT you can convince him to use sticks. >By doing this the legion get a few new roles around camp shifting to production and tallying of these sticks while all the metal is now being made into bullets spears ect boosting their war economy massively.
1 month ago
Anonymous
For a faction so obsessed with book-keeping, I am honestly kind of surprised that they didn't have a similar system in place already.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Because Ceaser is an educated idiot mimicking the roman empire, he just never learned about european history so he couldn't employ a better system for the wasteland.
He is literally just larping as the romans.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>Caesar gives his long winded rundown of his ideology, babbling on about thesis and antithesis, seething at the NCR >"okay but what is your policy on sticks?"
1 month ago
Anonymous
>[Speech 90] You're right, individually the currency is as weak as a twig. >[Barter 100] But as a united currency, we form a MIGHT homosexual.
1 month ago
Anonymous
i forgot the shoes idc i spent way too much time on that
Yes. And there is an explanation for why we are using fiat. Is there a good explanation for why the Commonwealth is using bottlecaps when clearly superior options exist?
1 month ago
Anonymous
Shifting a whole region from one currency to another is a bother?
1 month ago
Anonymous
Why was the Commonwealth using bottlecaps in the first place? And how are bottlecaps in themselves not already a massive enough bother to justify using anything else?
1 month ago
Anonymous
>Why was the Commonwealth using bottlecaps in the first place?
Because Nuka Cola was consumed that much across the country pre-war. That's the whole point of bottlecap currency in the setting in the first place, it's fricking everywhere and has no use besides to be a bottlecap. Sticks can be used for kindling or to make weapons, tools, structures, etc.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>That's the whole point of bottlecap currency in the setting in the first place
Non-isometric player detected, opinion invalidated. And lmao at arguing against sticks.
1 month ago
Anonymous
The frick you talking about moron? NCR dollars in Fallout 2 were also coins. Shiny and minted, but still coins.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Bottlecaps weren't used in Fallout 1 because of nuka cola. Go play the isometrics moron
1 month ago
Anonymous
?? You can clearly see Nuka cola written on the caps.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Black person, bottlecaps were not used in the isometrics because "Nuka Cola was common" and "they were just bottlecaps". They were used because the water merchants use their monopoly to create a fixed rate of exchange between water and bottlecaps. Last I checked, there is no water merchant fixing these rates in Fallout 4, or any Fallout after Fallout 1. It makes zero sense to use fricking bottlecaps because "hurr durr there's alot of them!"
1 month ago
Anonymous
>Last I checked, there is no water merchant fixing these rates in Fallout 4, or any Fallout after Fallout 1
NTA but Fallout 3 is literally about your dad going up against big water.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>going against big water
The Enclave isn't fixing the value of bottlecaps to a set amount of water.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Yeah but water vendors will be out of a job if free water is around for everyone. You think the enclave was the man behind the curtains, but there was an even shadowier man behind the man behind the curtains.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>, but there was an even shadowier man behind the man behind the curtains.
Decker?
1 month ago
Anonymous
>know the blade runner pistol is in 1 >Decker? >Maltese Falcon? >time to get myself that gun >bust down his door >cap his ass, not without great fricking difficulty >rifle through his pockets >all he fricking has is throwing knives >the gun is a reward from some fricking bum down the street who won't even give it to you until you're an arbitrary level
1 month ago
Anonymous
Yeah but at least you saved Daren Hightower('s bottom line and monopoly over the most important resource in the Hub)
1 month ago
Anonymous
>accidentally saved Hightower >never even met him because his doorman told me to frick off
1 month ago
Anonymous
You can peak through his window and kill him with a rocket launcher
1 month ago
Anonymous
>that image
I like how the show manages to perfectly capture the fallout games in that the main story is absolutely shit but the world and sidequests are entertaining.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>tfw the Enclave's plan all along was to nationalize DC's supply of clean water and let anyone who is a citizen of This Great United State live without bending to the ((water merchant)) or the "charitable" Brotherhood water rationers
1 month ago
Anonymous
Oy vey, we are the Hubs chosen people! We brought order to the West Coast!
1 month ago
Anonymous
Actual American currency would also be everywhere though
Why not just keep using that?
1 month ago
Anonymous
Because pre-war currency comes in varying states of disrepair.
1 month ago
Anonymous
And bottlecaps don't? Have you held a bottlecap?
1 month ago
Anonymous
>Currency can be found anywhere >Has a more valuable form (bones) rather than sticks. >Is easily identifiable to the person and given the worth the person issuing it gives >Can also be used by larger groups with ease if they have anyone who knows how to work with wood or carve things.
We need a fallout 4 stick mod immediately
Caps were used in Fallout 1 because the place was an arid wasteland and the people who controlled the economy, the water merchants, had the idea to use bottle caps as currency because it was tied to bottled water and backed by it.
Now caps are used in newer games because... because they ran out of ideas.
fallout fans are highly autistic
back when fallout 3 was revealed NMA was frothing because the vault door didn't have the "correct" number of spokes
it has only gotten worse now with trannies who only consume youtube videos thinking that the series took itself very seriously or had any consistency
Bottlecaps were only in F1 and were basically a form of Fiat currency as they were difficult to replicate, easy to carry, and limited in supply
In f2 everyone is using Gold, in NV the brotherhood had nuked the gold mines and destroyed the NCR gold reserves so their money became worthless, yet they still used paper money, only the people in Vegas were using caps because it was a neutral currency.
>were basically a form of Fiat currency as they were difficult to replicate, easy to carry, and limited in supply
They were backed by the merchants in the Hub with water
ncr currency backed by gold was dumb... it still relied on pre-war understandings of currency to hold value. the places that have high amounts of pre-war money? those would have gold in vaults too. banks and such. rich estates. some junkie raider could look through the rubble of a rich man's estate and find a bar of gold and get rich.
what use is gold in the post-war apocalypse? nobody can even mine it any more
>"When I was a kid, before the bombs dropped, you could go to the corner store and trade five bottle caps for a soda pop. There's not much cash around these days...but I see a whole lot of bottle caps..."
>Fallout 1: water merchants back the bottlecap due to it being limited in quantity, 1 cap = 1 unit of water >Fallout 2: they move onto paper money backed by the NCR >everything since: bottlecaps because Fallout 1 did it
It makes more sense water merchants travelled across the US and took the bottlecap currency with them especially since the NCR never managed to gain a foothold outside of the West coast.
Neither explanation makes sense, luckily these options are not the only ones available. I mean surely somebody would start trading with a commodity that has inherent value, or an organized group would collaborate to create an actual proper currency that won't rust away in your pockets and weigh you down. Because bottlecaps are seriously fricking stupid, and fricksake honestly even NCR bux would make more sense on the East Coast. Bottlecaps were only valuable because of very specific circumstances.
whats going against the possibility of merchants backing bottlecaps on the east cost? you're not being told in game because bethesda don't care about this sort of details so why even care in the first place if they don't but i don't see how its impossible
bethesda should stop advertising their shit as RPG or story driven or some shit and just accept they're into quirky funny looter-shooters
Not to mention that bottlecaps are not particularly durable. For the weight, flimsiness, and potential for sudden collapse; you really might as well just use ammo as currency (which is pretty much how it works in Fallout 1, as caps are more so designed to cover the difference in barter transactions)
It is a really shitty currency that only made sense in Fallout 1, where the Water Merchants held a monopoly over the most valuable resource in the Wastes and thus had the authority to guarantee bottlecaps as a proof of work, which even then were only a small portion of what was mostly a barter economy built on trading commodities.
>whats going against the possibility of merchants backing bottlecaps on the east cost?
The fact that there is no organized body of merchants on the east coast to back them as a currency. They just accept bottlecaps because Bethesda are fricking hacks.
This is also moronic btw, the only impetus to create a fiat currency is to have the ability to print it so it makes more sense they would have chosen something potentially unlimited in quantity like paper money.
The Water Merchants were not a proper government that had to spend through inflation. They used real assets to maintain their power and pay for shit, ie their monopoly on water, and everyone answered to them as a result. Bottlecaps were used as proof of work and could be exchanged for some water with the merchants, and this existed because it is easier to carry around a cap than a thing of water and it's not like caravanners needed all of their promised water immediately. The bottlecap was directly fixed in value to a quantity of water and was more an item of convenience that became a currency than an intentional form of currency itself. And the actual economy itself is still built on barter, these caps are really only used to round out transactions as opposed to buying and selling things wholesale entirely with caps.
Ok but that is not my point, there is no reason for them to establish caps because of their limited quantity. Forming a fiat currency because of limited quantity defeats the entire point of forming a fiat currency. Caps make no sense no matter which fallout.
They aren't establishing caps as a currency, that was entirely an unintended side effect of what was really meant to just be an IOU system from a group that had monopolized the water supply. Like I said, caps are directly fixed to an amount of water. The initial intent of the cap was literally "it is lighter to carry this around instead of your water". Most people still stuck to a barter economy, but they realized "oh shit these Water Merchant IOU's are actually a pretty good way to round out a transaction". Caps becoming a currency in Fallout 1 is similar to something like cigarettes becoming a currency in collapsed economies. It has a fairly inflexible demand, someone will always want them for consumption, but they are still a pretty small unit of value while also not being stupidly bulky. It's not like the Water Merchants saw that they needed to build the roads, necessitating a need for spending through inflation. If they want something done, they can just pay directly with their real assets. It just so happens that their real assets aren't comfortable to carry around, so they hand you a cap instead and you can feel free to swing by for a swig of water in exchange for it whenever you please.
What he is saying is that water formed a reserve currency and caps acted as bank notes which can be made and traded without a government and are not fiat. Still moronic though, the british in the dark ages just used sticks for the same purpose and talley sticks would work better than caps not even sure how caps would work
Caps were a short term measure that came about organically. There was little thought put into, it was literally "oh shit what do we have laying around that we can give you so we know we owe you water... oh well we have a big pile of bottle caps and I don't many of this are still around the Wasteland today". It is a notably inefficient system, and one that isn't really built to last (which is why you'll notice that "wealthy" characters like Gizmo also have very clear assets where most of their wealth actually is, instead of just sitting on piles of bottlecaps)The actual economy itself still largely operates on barter, people trading commodities for other commodities, and caps are only there to round it out, being the equivalent of physically putting water on the table in a trade. Once humanity moved beyond trading guns for cans of beans and actually needed a proper currency in Fallout 2 instead of just bartering like cavemen, they actually started printing money or used gold to trade.
One thing worth mentioning about the sticks is that they were cracked into two pieces with one half being issued as currency and the other kept by the issuer, so you could check if someone's stick is authentic by seeing if it fits flush with the half that you (presumably the local king) kept.
1 month ago
Anonymous
who cares
1 month ago
Anonymous
Everyone cared. Next time think before you post
1 month ago
Anonymous
That system seems way to easy to game on the issuers part. Could literally just snip off a bit more of the stick and bye-bye guarantee. I know that the feudal system rested alot on mutual trust, so people weren't so keen on getting a reputation as a scam artist, but that still just seems like a really easily gamed system, or even a system susceptible to accidents.
who cares
I care anon.
1 month ago
Anonymous
That's why only those with power issued them. The way you made sure people wanted your sticks is by collecting taxes in the form of sticks so that there would always be demand for more sticks by the public.
1 month ago
Anonymous
You are fricking with me, right? This is a shitpost or I am just incredibly confused. They were not fricking tithing sticks in order to reduce the supply of sticks in the stick market.
1 month ago
Anonymous
That's how medieval English economy worked, and incidentally most modern currencies.
1 month ago
Anonymous
You know, I never read up that much on how Medieval contracts were upheld, I guess I just assumed that they used their fancy signet rings to stamp wax seals as a method to verify contracts and things like that. I am convinced this stick thing had to be a fairly niche that was prevalent in tiny part of Ingerland for a couple years, because it just seems like such an absurd system.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Nope, the sticks were an incredibly common form of currency referenced in the founding of the Bank of England and also the Napoleonic code.
1 month ago
Anonymous
considering there's an entire industry dedicated to helping people store their sticks off-shore so that the government can't take them
not that crazy
1 month ago
Anonymous
I am happy he's not lying.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>The split tally of the Exchequer remained in continuous use in England until 1826, when the conditions required for activation of the Receipt of the Exchequer Act 1783 (23 Geo. 3. c. 82), the death of the last Exchequer Chamberlain, came about.[13] In 1834, following the passing of 4 Will. 4. c .15, tally sticks representing six centuries' worth of financial records were ordered to be burned in two furnaces in the Houses of Parliament.[14] The resulting fire set the chimney ablaze and then spread until most of the building was destroyed.[8]
I am going to have a fricking aneurysm. Frick new earth creationism, I am a tally stick denier. This is looney toons ass shit.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>4 Will. 4. c .15,
OK I admit I'm a brainlet: what does this mean? Is this someone's name? Is it a number?
1 month ago
Anonymous
>For will, for you see, check this 15.
he was trying to predict his post number and failed sadly, just like the NCR.
1 month ago
Anonymous
I think it is the code for the law itself
1 month ago
Anonymous
The forth session of Parliament under King William the forth, chapter 15. >4 (forth) Will(iam).IV c(hapter) 15
1 month ago
Anonymous
Why didn‘t Aragorn introduce tally sticks as part of his tax reforms?
1 month ago
Anonymous
>One of the refinements was to make the two halves of the stick of different lengths. The longer part was called stock and was given to the party which had advanced money (or other items) to the receiver. The shorter portion of the stick was called foil and was given to the party which had received the funds or goods. >stocks are fricking sticks
No fricking way. Nuhuh. Not biting this bait.
1 month ago
Anonymous
It's a solid way to keep a record of transactions. The anon is presenting it in a weird way to use it as a metaphor for modern day fiat currencies.
A stick saying "I promise to pay the bearer on demand the sum of x pounds" was used like a currency because in practice it's no different to a modern banknote.
1 month ago
Anonymous
You just went full David Graeber, never go full David Graeber
1 month ago
Anonymous
It actually worked well enough for the king to start collecting them for taxes, at any rate trust is the foundation for trade at all, nobody would break a stick with a Black person
1 month ago
Anonymous
Also apparently the Brits managed to burn down their parliament when they finally decided to get rid of their stick collection in the 19th century.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>nobody would break a stick with a Black person
Yeah but the Black person only needs to win once and you are shit out of luck. I mean, I know that in Medieval times people got flayed alive for that shit; but still, it just seems like such an easily gamed system.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Maybe if you are some commie gay that thinks society fundamentally doesn’t work without some overbearing authority figure. Good business is the best business.
1 month ago
Anonymous
The tally stick system operated because of the Exchequers though, it was a system enforced by an authority figure
1 month ago
Anonymous
They would often have multiple safeguards like a signature or stamp mark across the break.
This is still how it is done in 3rdie countries where they don’t use computers for their contracts.
They will have to notarize and stamp every single thing and make sure the stamp is across both parties copy.
1 month ago
Anonymous
First world still uses stamps, champ.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>tfw you are the designated keeper of the sticks for the local lord >someone disputes something >have to spend all week going through the hoard of broken popsicle sticks
1 month ago
Anonymous
Iirc they were typically given a "serial number" to make matching easier.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>Be me, Stick Keeper >Working for my lord who's at war with some other fricking dickhead lord for control of england while the welsh occasionally come by to litter our town and castle with arrows. >I hate this fricking job but it's better than working the fields and I can't just say no to my lord. >Some dumbass comes in and demands his pay (more sticks) while also asking me to verify a stick he got from someone else. >Frick I have to spend hours searching through our fricking COLLECTION OF STICKS TO FIND THE ONE THAT FITS. >Suddenly get brilliant idea when issuing out the sticks I'm supposed to manage. >"Oi, sir? I'm going to need to carve a number in that." >Guy looks confused, explain to him how I plan on carving a number onto his stick, then the other half of the stick so I can more easily search for them if anyone comes to verify the stick. >He's confused but agrees. >Begin carving numbers into more sticks, along with other random symbols. >People begin getting antsy, ask me to "verify" their sticks by carving into them. >They're fricking counterfit sticks. >Turns out like half the town were using counterfit sticks and inflating our currencies value >Bust a massive counterfitting group completely by accident, guards take them to the lords dungeons. >Get a promotion, since the lord is so happy with my work. >Head-Wood-Carver. >Even more fricking wood carving and now I have to train a bunch of people he pulled from the fields to help carve the sticks.
Anons if he wins this war we better start using metal currency.
1 month ago
Anonymous
I just skimmed the wiki page on these tally sticks. Holy fricking shit what the frick am I reading there is absolutely no fricking way. I am falling for a meme, historians and archeologists are tricking me. I refuse to accept that THEY WERE INSTRUMENTAL IN FORMING THE BANK OF ENGLAND
there were people who got filtered by new vegas because it was orange instead of green. if different currency types actually mattered, there'd be riots on reddit.
Emil was going for that Marvel style humor, problem is it doesn't work as Fallout has its own tone. I don't think Emil gets the tone of Fallout quite right.
the fear of death is actually the fear of eternally not being in control and that's what feral ghouls are except it's a tangible thing not just a philosophical concept in your head
1: You look like a hideous monster and people hate you for it
2: All your joints stiffen up and weaken, you can't really run anymore, just shamble around
3: You smell really bad, all the time
Being a ghoul sucks, you do not want to become a ghoul.
>2: All your joints stiffen up and weaken, you can't really run anymore, just shamble around
Tell that to feral ghouls. They really shouldn't be "shambling" that fast when they catch a whiff of vault dweller.
Presumably ferals don't care about pain or long-term bodily function. Unlike with normal ghouls, ferals don't care if they shred what is left of their joints to kill something.
>die at age 60-70
or >potentially live until year 2277, 200 years after the bombs fell, and still do some cool ass living and breathing shit like Raul Tejada and Dean Domino
idk being a ghoul sounds kinda based
>1: You look like a hideous monster and people hate you for it
I honestly started reading this post thinking you were calling him a troony.
I need to get out of this place.
Kid in the fridge doesn’t get brought up nearly enough. There’s absolutely no excuse for how fricking embarrassing that shit is. It’s like they asked a kid with Down’s syndrome to write a quest for them.
honestly pre-war money not being worthless in Fallout 3 or NV invalidates the reason people are supposed to be using caps
you can get 10k pre-war cash in one of the NV DLCs and that's a minimum 50k in caps if you have shit barter, or 100k if you can trade them for full price
>Enclave dismantled completely on West and East coasts >Series dropping hints at them for next season
Anything to know about the Chicago branch of Enclave? Do they like deep dish pizza? Put a whole ass pickle on a hotdog?
In New Vegas, the exchange rate is 40 caps to a hundred dollar NCR bill.
That would mean it's a modest 13,235 in NCR dollars, and you could carry that easily with hunneds or the cut $500 NCR bill.
If only there was some kind of place people could store their bottlecaps, and then get notes representing large amount of battlecaps that could be traded more conveniently..
People might even go for prolonged periods without ever even handling bottlecaps, since the notes would be considered just as good...Hmm...
I believe you mean >casually dismantles worldbuilding to reference a notoriously dumb scene from the indiana jones movie that no one likes
Was it worth it?
The indiana jones scene was a reference to the original script of Back to the Future where the time machine is a refrigerator and the only way to get 1.21 jiggawatts is to get nuked. Spielberg was obsessed with the idea.
I believe you mean >casually dismantles worldbuilding to reference a notoriously dumb scene from the indiana jones movie that no one likes
Was it worth it?
and it was a mistake then too. one of the biggest decisions you make in fallout 1 is whether to steal necropolis's water chip without fixing their water pump, which the ghouls beg you not to do.
>NV makes fun of it if you have Wild Wasteland trait
Meanwhile Bethesda was like: yo I think these Indiana Jones guys were onto something
the kicker is that it's a major part of one of the fallout show's characters.
>"NEW GAMES BREAK LORE OF OLD GAMES." >"The new games just did what the old games did." >"UHM THE OLD GAMES ARE BAD ACTUALLY!"
Why are you people like this?
it's almost like things are capable of having both good and bad aspects, and there are parts of fallout 2 that are widely criticized despite the improvements it made in other areas
>Fallout fans on Ganker loathe everything after 1
Ironic since Tim Cain went on twitter to express how much he hates FO1 loregays.
After reading that I became desensitized. If the original team does not care why should I? For me NV was the end of the series, everything after that is like watching The Simpsons after season 12.
It's really dumb when in the same game there are 2 other instances of "ghouls being imprisoned and only kept alive by being fed by a third party" but this kid for some reason doesn't need to eat at all despite being trapped in the fridge for 200 years.
shit there was this medieval european custom of signing a document in duplicate or triplicate on the same piece of paper and then cutting it up in weird ways to make sure the edges only fit together from the originals, does anyone remember what that was called?
I completely change my mind about Fallout 4. They should not be using bottlecaps. They should not be using minted currency either. Apparently, they should have been using sticks the entire time.
There are no trees in FO3 and I don't think there were many sticks lying around in 1 or 2. I suppose they could have used animal (and human) bones instead.
If the Wasteland known as Bongistan had enough sticks to build the Bank of England, then surely a less hostile environment would have enough sticks laying around.
people also used to barter with little clay tokens in antiquity.
a farmer might offer to trade you a bushel of what for your services, but that won't do you any good if his harvest isn't until next year, so he might give you a clay token to exchange either with himself later or with a central storage facility in town.
obviously anyone can just make a clay token so they would hide little security figures inside the token. you would break the token on exchange and if the token was fake then they would break you.
I WILL give my entire gold to the NCR to reintroduce NCR dollars as the MAIN currency just as it was meant to be in Fallout 2 and I WILL side with Caesar anyways.
>point of Dead Money is to let go and puts a massive amount of wealth in front of you that you aren't supposed to be able to carry >you can shift all of the gold bars for very little effort by just shifting the camera a little
bravo
Bottle cap is use because its hard to replicated at the time. Dollars, coins, and casino chips are being use later on in the west coast after a few decades. It just seem odd that the East Coast, after many decades, would still use bottlecaps, or uplift themselves to being a post apoc society. F3 made it seem like everyone there are moronic and F4 had an excuse that the Institute murder anyone when anyone tries to form a civilization
>This just in on NCR News Radio >The commonwealth is being explored, the frontier is dangerous, full of raiders bandits all juiced up on the large amount of chems produced in the area. >The strangest discovery found our exploration and diplomatic teams however, was the local currency... >At some point in time it was clearly caps judging from what the locals say, most likely spreading there through word of mouth and ease of use. >However... Recently, they've switched to an entirely new form of currency. >Sticks. >Issued by the leading group in control of the area, the "minutemen" issue out broken sticks to various groups and settlements to be cashed in for protection food and more. >Because of this, these broken sticks were immediately adopted as the new form of currency, as they have actual value behind them backed by the small group. >Soldiers report being mugged not for their NCR dollars, but for any... Sticks they may have. >As hilarious as this sounds, we recommend staying far away from any of these sticks if you visit the commonwealth due to the large amount of raiders willing to kill you over them!
>Go East to the Commonwealth from Arizona to escape the Legion since I am a jet addict >find a local dealer in an old gas station >it is absolutely filled to the brim with skeletons >why the frick hasn't this b***h cleaned up >she pulls out a few inhalers of jet >I reach into my pouch and toss some caps onto the table >she laughs >as I tell her that I don't have any Legion denarii, she snaps the femur of one of the nearby skeletons >hands me a piece of it >"one day I will call in this debt." >she pushes me out the door with a bag of jet and half a femur
What the actual frick is wrong with this place
>California >D.C >Mojave >Boston
Which one's more dangerous as a whole?
Appalachia is disqualified because those guys have giant pre-war magical monsters, too unfair.
California, considering I had to savescum my way past super mutant patrols that would reduce all of my companions to bloody stumps in 1 round of combat
>savescums past your patrols >bypasses your perimeter with a cheap piece of plastic >picks a random code on the vat control terminal >blows up your base
haha oops
D.C. with Boston being a close second. D.C. is outright anarchy in a concrete jungle while Boston just had an attempted government dissolve and one of the largest factions present fracture.
California, Super Mutant patrols in 1, Enclave patrols in 2, and random Deathclaw encounters in both games easily shit on anything that can be randomly encountered in the others
of course, after Fallout 2 California basically just becomes a modern first world nation so from that point onwards its probably the safest location in the world
bros i was selling a mini nuke (my most prized possession) to that moronic vault dweller up from Concord and he gave me a fricking stick are you serious I never would've supported to Minutemen I miss my caps being worth anything
>The Courier, fair and even-handed in his dealings throughout the Wasteland, was honored by the NCR for his support of the military at Hoover Dam. He was presented with the Golden Branch, the highest civilian decoration given by the Republic."
>Oh uh here take this stick thanks for helping me out dude >"Don't you guys use caps?" >"...No? We just break off bones or sticks and cash them in as debts or favors y'know? Like caps were used a while ago because of some merchants peddling it but apparently they changed to paper currency a while ago so it lost its value. We use broken bones from the skeletons people keep around or just sticks to mark debts. Word of advice? Broken bones are worth way more than sticks survivor." >"Wait, wait- Everyone's been paying me in caps." >"You seriously thought caps had value dude? I hate to break it to you but you were being duped. I mean, you're from the past aren't you? Did you seriously think we'd just use caps for no reason and just give it value out of nothing dude? The sticks act as a way to mark debt or a service owed, like the one I gave you." >"Our pre-war currency didn't have any backing." >"Frick, that's rough mate." >Piper shoots stick-bro. >"YOU IDIOT, YOU TOLD HIM ABOUT THE STICKS! HE WAS DOING EVERYTHING FOR LIKE, FREE!" >Nate proceeds to go full scorched earth on anyone who gave him caps while stealing everyones bones and sticks, demanding proper payment.
>Hey Nate Fallout, someone stole my stick that I kept as debt in exchange for freeing a synth, I need your help to get it back! >Yes >Sarcastic >Yes? >No (Yes) >Quest Added: Stick It To Him
You know what's really impossible to replicate? A broken bottle. Smash a bottle nice and good and you've got a completely unique set of pieces that go back together with no other bottle. Think about it. Great proof of contract.
Actually I'm just pretending because the idea of being the guy who has to reassemble broken bottles as proof of transactions is funny.
The real question is why the frick do the Vault Dwellers in 76 use caps? >inb4 Whitespring Nuka-Cola promotion
pure coincidence for gameplay sake and is a late game location
>break stick in half >give half a stick to someone else >then break the stick in half again so I can extend more loans with the same stick
Congrats, you just invented fractional reserve banking
>These fricking commonwealth stick using savages aren't human I tell you, they ain't human ladies and gentlemen! >That's right as you've most likely heard these "STICKERS" are in the commonwealth and I say we wipe 'em out, a bunch of JUNKIES do we need more of that in our democracy, in our great nation? >No we do NOT, we do NOT need that! We need workers, do not need raiders, we do not need "PEOPLE" who use STICKS as a currency! >I say I say we go up to these stick loving freaks and snap their twigs in half, give 'em half an end of a stick and tell them that it's worth a lot and they'll give you anything! >These people are idiots, treat them like idiots and do NOT let them into our great nation!
Someone tries scamming a commonwealth immigrant by giving them a fake stick and they immediately get killed by them.
What do you mean? Like which vaults were under US/Enclave control then basically all of them. If you mean where Enclave personnel survived I.E. the Oil Rig then that's up for debate.
there had to be way more than just the Oil Rig and Navarro, I'm just real curious on how the Enclave civilians lived. It has to be like Vault Dwellers but with way less wacky behavioral shit
I think that the Oil Rig had the same provisions that the Vaults did. Water chip and everything. Just with an extra helping of military and propaganda. Part of me feels conflicted on The Enclave appearing again beyond the Oil Rig. Obviously it's a big country and government was everywhere. But to me The Enclave feels like a fringe offshoot of the US government, like the CIA can't be everywhere. right?
Fallout FROST did something really cool if you've played it.
Essentially the military remnants are hanging around fortifying certain locations and receiving "orders" from the "higher ups" who survived. It's implied they're forming the enclave essentially, with promises of extraction ect as long as they keep the area secured.
They shoot on sight because most people in Frosts world are insane or willing to do anything for a bite to eat or better equipment.
Okay but what happens if the Institute replaces the Commonwealth Exchequer with a synth and manipulates the economy? Huh gaygays, got an answer for that?
>Synth bones become extremely valuble, used for very large deals rather than just getting a load of human skeletons to show how much of something someone owes you or you owe them.
>due to inflation, synth bones are now used for the majority of day to day trades >traders have had to use increasingly rare materials to make 'bones', like copper, silver, and gold >the most expensive transactions are not only conducted through broken 'gold' sticks but to represent the sheer value of items/services traded, traders now use multiple broken gold sticks
>"You hear about that jackass, what's his face... Nate?" >"Yeah, the pre-war guy who came out of a vault?" >"He has no idea our currency is sticks." >"What, seriously? He thinks we're using his old-world cash or something?" >"No, no... He thinks we're using... Caps..." >"What? Nobody's used that shit in forever!" >"Yeah but some guy decided to try pulling a fast one on him and now he thinks those worthless bottlecaps mean something! Don't blow this dumbass, we can get him to do fricking anything for caps! He asks for more and you just hand 'em over 'cause they're WORTHLESS!" >"How's he buying all that equipment, boss?" >"Eh, people are just giving it to him either out of guilt or to better equip him to take care of their problems. The guy's like a communal mercenary for the whole community.
Everyone just acts real fricking weird when Nate asks them why they have skeletons everywhere.
I like the idea of caps being a real currency, but it's exclusively Nate-specific, serving as an IOU for Nate doing his thing as an unstoppable unkillable murder machine mercenary. Natecaps, the value of 1 cap is the equivalent of one Nate's worth of his labor. So they're worthless to everyone but Nate, that everyone still collects to pay Nate because Nate is just worth it. He uses those caps to get better weapons, armor, and ammo, and they'll give the caps back to Nate in exchange for him taking care of more problems.
The institute realizes they have accidently become the banking system of the wasteland completely on accident.
They begin giving out bones for favors, even higher-class bones to manipulate factions ect to better "guide" the wasteland to their vision of restoration.
In his office Father contemplates killing himself as he realizes that he's wasted his entire life developing synths when he could've just manipulated the economy for total control of the wasteland.
People now openly make deals with the institute and store their sticks safely with them since they keep their sticks nice and safe in their bunker, essentially becoming a literal bank for the entire wasteland and the various settlements in it.
The NCR is amazed at how such a stupid system can be so advanced.
>Nate breaks into the Institute, finds Sean much older now, drinking in his chair >"I bet you have alot of questions for me, Father, well go ahead and ask" >he asks about the fricking sticks >Sean takes a long, slow sip of his drink, lays his head back on the chair, and sighs >"You wouldn't understand..."
Bottle caps as currency never made any sense to me. All it'll take is for somebody to get any bottling plant up and running again, start punching out new caps, and such persons will be drowning in caps. They'll have truckloads of them and quickly devalue caps to rightfully being worthless. At the very least, they should be using bullets as currency and ideally silver/gold.
Yes, that is why they stopped using caps in Fallout 2. And in Fallout New Vegas, they specifically highlighted that caps can be counterfeited and the merchant houses have to ruthlessly track down any illegal bottlecap presses.
>At the very least, they should be using bullets as currency and ideally silver/gold.
Who let the Metrogays in? But yeah bottle caps are silly but I didn't mind too much in F1 since the backing of the water merchants made enough sense and by the time new caps could be "printed" the NCR had actual gold backed currency. Plus F1 has a goofy side too.
When The Hub started issuing bottlecaps, nobody had the know-how to even keep a basic water purifier running let alone running and supplying a bottlecap smelting machine. Sabotaging a still-salvageable Sunset Sarsparilla bottling plant is literally one of the quests you do for the Crimson Caravan in New Vegas.
Bullets are actually pretty shit as currency, since their value is highly flexible (a city-slicker needs to shoot less than a frontier hunter), and it isn't a good store of value (bullets go bad and are dangerous to store). They barely worked in Metro because the tools used to make milspec ammunition don't exist anymore, which means that every bullet that gets fired, cooks off in storage, or gets waterlogged is an irreversible deflation of the currency.
>All it'll take is for somebody to get any bottling plant up and running again, start punching out new caps
https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Counterfeit_bottle_cap
and https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Pressing_Matters
You know New Vegas actually cares about its setting / worldbuilding because it has both a location dedicated to a piss-poor counterfeit operation and a side quest dedicated to a proper one.
>run the press >Crimson Caravan finds out >Courier canonically gets raped to death by Gun Runner-supplied death squads with anti-materiel rifles and fat men, backed by the Caravan
its just a bunch of people in 50s clothes squatting in trash filled ruins 200 years after the apocalypse, nobody knows what a broom or tools are, yet they dress in perfect 1950's clothing, it's laughably moronic
Why didn't they use ammunition as currency instead of bottle caps? >has the single greatest value in a post apocalypse setting >most people won't know how to make more meaning whoever can produce it controls the wasteland
One, because in Fallout, people actually do know how to manufacture ammunition and weapons. Two, because bottlecaps were specifically backed by the Water Merchants. They were essentially IOUs that people discovered were good for rounding out transactions (see the entire stick conversation as to why sticks are the blatantly superior option here).
You are aware that the Gun Runners know how to manufacture that ammunition as far back as Fallout 1. Along with organizations that had existed (and were destroyed) prior to Fallout 1, like the United Atomic Workers. The BoS is also a major player in the weapons market in Fallout 1. You steal the Gun Runner schematics because something something they have a better production method, I don't remember. It's not like the schematic is necessary to do something as reload ammunition.
You're wrong and only the Gun Runners actually produce new weaponry, but even so, there is a world of difference between >properly rifling a barrel >stamping a functional lower receiver >threading, sights, etc. that must be extremely precise (not even getting into glass)
and >bubba fricking around with powder to produce hot loads
my nogunz-having friend. If we were discussing mere shotguns like that piece of shit Rose of Sharon Cassidy carries around and nothing else you'd be less wrong, but even realistic stuff like the Marksman Rifle would be extremely easy to frick up without schematics. Never mind complete fiction like whatever is making a Winchester plasma caster function, a minigun, etc., where it's all so complex that it becomes rapidly becomes clear why the NCR just tries to forage for everything, or purchases it from dedicated contractors like the Gun Runners or Van Graffs.
A better question for this thread would be why the NCR decided to just unga bunga execute all the Enclave, who had things like an R&D department and pre-war records, rather than actually employ some of them to solve some of the mysteries of the old world.
>A better question for this thread would be why the NCR decided to just unga bunga execute all the Enclave, who had things like an R&D department and pre-war records, rather than actually employ some of them to solve some of the mysteries of the old world.
I know one of the ending slides for the NCR in Fallout 2 has them integrate a bunch of surviving Enclave members into their society, isn't what what canonically happened? It's what i got on every playthrough
1 month ago
Anonymous
No, every character you ask (including old Enclave remnants) tell you the NCR just killed every man, woman and child who was ever part of the Enclave.
Anon, I am fairly certain the Crimson Caravan already has the capacity to manufacture their own weapons. The point is that there are multiple groups in the Fallout setting more than capable of manufacturing firearms and especially ammunition. But in Fallout 1, there is only ONE group that controls the water in the Hub. After Fallout 1, yeah bottlecaps no longer make sense; but neither does using ammunition or anything else.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>I am fairly certain the Crimson Caravan already has the capacity to manufacture their own weapons
Well you would be wrong because the Gun Runners and New Canaanites do that, Crimson Caravan specializes in caravans and logistics. Van Graffs may or may not produce energy weapons. I'm leaning toward "do not" because their stock is really low durability and Gloria expresses interest in where Mr. House stores his robots.
1 month ago
Anonymous
The Van Graffs do manufacture their energy weapons. The Crimson Caravan is also trying to put a tariff on the Gun Runner's equipment, and the exact words used in the quest are >The quality of the Gun Runners' armaments is due to their manufacturing process
Which seems to imply that the edge the Gun Runners have is based on quality, not the total inability to manufacture weapons on part of the Crimson Caravan. Especially since the moment you steal the holotape, Alice says they are going to manufacture their own weapons immediately, which also indicates they already have the facilities set up.
Because ammunition is not currency. It's a perishable object of practical use. But you can trade with ammunition. You can trade with anything that has value. Basically, you're an idiot.
all of these fricking morons ITT pretending this type of character wouldn't absolutely fit in fallout 2 and 1. Fallout 2 in particular is flooded with pop culture shit like Parker. Also, it doesn't damage worldbuilding at all. he's supposed to be a scam artist. Holy shit, there is so much you can criticize about Fallout 4's dogshit worldbuilding and you cherry picked this? noose your Black person neck NOW
>baits people effortlessly >specifically baits people with an irrepressible desire to correct people / nitpick >can use actual bethesdrones for camouflage / plausible deniability
the NCR is only moving into Vegas now and its currency isn't trusted or highly valued by the locals, so they value the bottle cap more because its what they were already using
it's the same reason denarii aren't super commonly used
that said, caps in New Vegas don't have the same Water Merchant backing as they did in Fallout 1 but it could just be that merchants from the west had visited the tribes in Vegas in the past and the currency just stuck with them, due to shit like how there are still cap presses in and around Vegas so it's a convenient currency to use
>caps in New Vegas don't have the same Water Merchant backing as they did in Fallout 1
New Vegas is the crown israeliteel of that shithole desert and House probably just made the primary currency bottle caps because it made trading with existing groups easier.
The reason why caps were used in F1 was because water was so valued in the now-even-shittier California wasteland desert, real life Nevada shouldn't even need nuking to know the value of water today
Because New Vegas isn't actually NCR territory? It's occupied according to a treaty. Would you rather trade in the currency that the merchant caravans use, or a piece of paper from a weak-ass occupying power that even has "not payable in specie" printed on it. The Families and House will take your dollar, but they don't believe in it.
bottlecaps make sense theme wise, something as worthless and mass produced in 50s consoomer minded america is literally money now, dying over a few bottlecaps is the kind of silly edgy vibe bethesda is going for
their writing is quite uninspired but it's stupid to get worked over hard lore details when they obviously have a more fairytale-like approach to the setting, think back to the kids cave back in Fallout 3, they were never about 'what do they eat' worldbuilding type
>they were never about 'what do they eat' worldbuilding type
I actually disagree with this. Bethesda has this approach with Fallout, but not with TES. Despite its flaws, Skyrim does actually make an effort to explain the economy of the world to a reasonable extent, and it plays a noticeable factor in the setting. Like the Black-Briars having so much influence over Riften because they have a big frick-off meadery, or Solitude being pro-Empire because they have so much trade from them. Skyrim still has its flaws, obviously, like the fact that half the population works in the banditry industry, but Bethesda is capable of designing a functional world. But they genuinely don't care about doing that for Fallout. They should, because the core ethos of Fallout has always been >to explore more of the ethics and society of a post-nuclear world, not to make a better plasma gun
Did Bethesda contribute a single iconic thing to the Fallout IP?
It's really funny how Black Isle/Interplay made all the main elements like the Power Armor, vaults, Vault Boy, Pip Boys, bottle caps, super mutants, deathclaws, the Master etc for F1 and instead of just rehashing them they still found it necessary to make the APA, the Enclave, the GECK, Frank, NCR for F2. Then Bethesda couldn't do shit but rehash those for F3, even the main armor being just a more tacticool take on the original Power Armor.
Then immediately afterwards Obsidian shows them how it's done again with New Vegas and New Vegas itself, Mr House, Legion (reused from Van Buren but still the point stands), the unique Ranger armor, Securitrons, cazadors etc. Then Bethesda tries and embarrasses themselves with synths in F4 with the only takeaway anyone had being "wtf none of this makes any sense why are they doing this".
Wrong. It's exactly in line with the portrayal of pre-war America from prior Fallout games and you don't 'get' Fallout and never will if you believe otherwise.
>It's exactly in line with the portrayal of pre-war America from prior Fallout games
No it's not purely due to the stupid retro mech factor, real Fallout games would've made it a small terminator army or something. The Fallout world was still supposed to be somewhat feasible and not ACTUALLY something from the Jetsons-like media they had.
You still believe the "Fallout is serious business, guiz" nonsense. It's a completely farcical cartoon universe and anyone who claims otherwise doesn't get it.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Fallout was not farcical, it was a depressing and brutal adventure through a cautionary and ultimately hopeless tale. Fallout 2 is where the farce began to kick in. New Vegas is significantly less silly than 2.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Liberty Prime is something you'd find in a pre-war patriotic movie in the Fallout universe, not something the government itself would develop.
>American soldier shooting a POW in the head and waving to the camera while his buddies laugh is not farcical >FEV experimentation to create a super-soldier that makes the subject totally moronic is not farcical
1 month ago
Anonymous
>American soldier shooting a POW in the head and waving to the camera while his buddies laugh is not farcical
there is a small mountain of liveleak videos demonstrating this is neither unrealistic nor farcical >muh mutants
go back to the toll booth, mr. hines
1 month ago
Anonymous
>there is a small mountain of liveleak videos demonstrating this is neither unrealistic nor farcical
And those aren't broadcasted on live television, moron.
You also have no argument for the mutants.
1 month ago
Anonymous
go back to the toll booth, mr. hines
1 month ago
Anonymous
>And those aren't broadcasted on live television, moron
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execution_of_Nguy%E1%BB%85n_V%C4%83n_L%C3%A9m
1 month ago
Anonymous
>And those aren't broadcasted on live television, moron.
They would be in a Third World War situation, remember how Captain America and Donald Duck used to beat up Japanese caricatures, western mainstream media celebrates drone footage from the Ukraine war etc >You also have no argument for the mutants.
It's literally shit America tried to do IRL
>there is a small mountain of liveleak videos demonstrating this is neither unrealistic nor farcical
And those aren't broadcasted on live television, moron.
You also have no argument for the mutants.
The First World has never broadcast a prisoner getting their head blown off. It's farcical for Fallout to portray America to do such.
1 month ago
Anonymous
the first world showed saddam hussein being hanged
1 month ago
Anonymous
inb4 >well that isnt identical to a man being shot despite being the literal same thing otherwise so it doesnt count
1 month ago
Anonymous
Did Bush's finest soldier do a fist pump right after and tell you to buy war bands NOW?
1 month ago
Anonymous
yes, the press and pundits and everyone in between were told by the dubya administration to celebrate
to imply something like "the western world would never glorify cold-blooded murder on television" makes you either a disingenuous fricktard baiting for replies at 5AM or such a brainless fricking moron that you probably paid money for fallout 4
1 month ago
Anonymous
Did Fallout shoot the prime minister of Canada or didn't they just shoot a random mook prisoner of war? Why would the world of Fallout celebrate the death of a single soldier, if it were not a farcical game?
1 month ago
Anonymous
Black person if you split that hair any more desperately you're going to set off an atomic explosion
1 month ago
Anonymous
>And those aren't broadcasted on live television, moron.
They would be in a Third World War situation, remember how Captain America and Donald Duck used to beat up Japanese caricatures, western mainstream media celebrates drone footage from the Ukraine war etc >You also have no argument for the mutants.
It's literally shit America tried to do IRL
1 month ago
Anonymous
>And those aren't broadcasted on live television, moron.
few years ago president of serbia broadcasted tortured corpses of people killed by some crime group. It's not that far fetched
1 month ago
Anonymous
Both of these are played completely straight within the setting, though. The mutants are a legitimate threat to both the player and every settlement in Fallout 1.
1 month ago
Anonymous
You clearly don't understand, if a story contains something that doesn't exist in real life then the tone defaults to wacky and silly. It's a farce and must not be taken seriously or attributed any weight whatsoever. This is the actual thought process Bethesda executives have by the way.
The Van Graffs do manufacture their energy weapons. The Crimson Caravan is also trying to put a tariff on the Gun Runner's equipment, and the exact words used in the quest are >The quality of the Gun Runners' armaments is due to their manufacturing process
Which seems to imply that the edge the Gun Runners have is based on quality, not the total inability to manufacture weapons on part of the Crimson Caravan. Especially since the moment you steal the holotape, Alice says they are going to manufacture their own weapons immediately, which also indicates they already have the facilities set up.
>Especially since the moment you steal the holotape, Alice says they are going to manufacture their own weapons immediately, which also indicates they already have the facilities set up
It seems more like the Crimson Caravan would be willing to divert funds to some kind of gun manufacturing process now that they have proven schematics. Also everything you buy from the Gun Runners is in top condition alongside whatever unique weapons they offer, which is something only they offer, and thus a hint that only they are actually producing guns. What else would differentiate them from Crimson Caravan if Alice, etc. were already making guns? Not using pig iron?
1 month ago
Anonymous
1 month ago
Anonymous
>What else would differentiate them from Crimson Caravan if Alice, etc. were already making guns? Not using pig iron?
Well, presumably their production process which leads to higher quality firearms. Just because Norinco can build a gun doesn't mean that gun is as good as the alternatives. Which is why McLafferty wants the process. Also the Gun Runners are highly decentralized. Their factory is directly in New Vegas, which probably keeps costs down.
1 month ago
Anonymous
I think you are plainly implying Crimson Caravan manufactures guns when there's no evidence of that whatsoever. Their business is based on consolidating caravan companies to move goods in a post-war environment full of monsters, mutants, heavily irradiated zones, etc. and I'll assume they do a decent job since they're wealthy. Alice wouldn't have you breaking into a competitor's manufacturing plant to steal schematics if they already had an idea on how to produce a gun from scratch. Producing guns is also not a simple process, especially not if you want to make something like a functional anti-materiel rifle.
1 month ago
Anonymous
That's why I said I am fairly certain. And I laid out my evidence >Crimson Caravan actively wants to tariff the Gun Runners specifically >Crimson Caravan is able to "immediately" begin using the Gun Runner's process when you steal it, implying that they already had the facilities set up >McLafferty specifically mentions the reason to spy on the Gun Runners is specifically because they manufacture higher quality weapons, as opposed to her simply saying "we need to know how to manufacture weapons at all"
As for what you said: >Alice wouldn't have you breaking into a competitor's manufacturing plant to steal schematics if they already had an idea on how to produce a gun from scratch
That's the whole point going back to the quality thing. Just because you know how to manufacture something does not mean you understand the most efficient processes for its manufacture. To me, it seems like the Crimson Caravan is able to manufacture weapons, but they are of lower quality as a result of a worse manufacturing process. Otherwise they wouldn't be able to immediately start producing using the Gun Runner's process, as they would still need to get their own infrastructure in place to manufacture if none existed in the first place. >Producing guns is also not a simple process, especially not if you want to make something like a functional anti-materiel rifle.
The NCR is a fairly functional state, there is an educated class of engineers and scientists within the NCR. It's not like the expertise doesn't exist.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>The NCR is a fairly functional state, there is an educated class of engineers and scientists within the NCR
If you mean guys like Hildern he mentions the OSI are a pretty new phenomenon, not even a full 10 years before New Vegas started. Then in Sloan you have guys using pre-war quarry equipment because the NCR doesn't know how to produce that. Then the NCR president is flying around in an Enclave vertibird with a bear painted on the side, protected by guys who wear power armor plating without servos because nobody understands how to produce that either.
The running theme is very clearly "California isn't very advanced", with small groups like the Gun Runners being the chief reason why they're doing well at all.
>McLafferty specifically mentions the reason to spy on the Gun Runners is specifically because they manufacture higher quality weapons, as opposed to her simply saying "we need to know how to manufacture weapons at all"
She doesn't say that, she talks about schematics. Gun Runners only produce one single product (guns) so there's nothing they could offer you, other than guns or knowledge on how to create guns. This once again plays into the game's theme where NCR is a conglomerate of bureaucrats relying on a few pockets of actually skilled individuals, with Crimson Caravan being one of the more obvious examples of this.
The quest is not >go buy these specific advanced weapons from the Gun Runners in 100% condition so we can reverse engineer them
The quest is >go get schematics from the gun-making guys that tell them how to make guns
On behalf of some b***h who doesn't seem to know how to do anything other than shake hands, offer people money to solve her problems and consolidate the task of walking really far with some cargo. They're not making guns the same way the NCR isn't making vertibirds. They're leeches. Even Caesar's Legion actually invents shit, like healing powder.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>Even Caesar's Legion actually invents shit, like healing powder.
braindead tribal morons had healing powder in 2 using the exact same recipe, the legion didn't invent shit
1 month ago
Anonymous
Legion invented bitter drink tho
1 month ago
Anonymous
>If you mean guys like Hildern he mentions the OSI are a pretty new phenomenon
I mean just in general. For as far back as before Fallout 1, almost a century and a half before the events of New Vegas, you had the United Atomic Workers, the Gun Runners, and the Brotherhood manufacturing weapons. There are alot of people with the expertise and knowledge to manufacture firearms. >She doesn't say that, she talks about schematics. >"The quality of the Gun Runners' armaments is due to their manufacturing process. They craft all weapons on-site. I want to know the secrets of their manufacturing process, which means you'll need to find some way to get inside their heavily-guarded factory."
And like I said, Alice McLafferty further goes on to say: >I hear it's business as usual at the Gun Runners, as if nothing unusual happened. Excellent work. We'll be able to use the schematics you acquired to begin manufacturing our own weapons immediately. We'll provide some to you at a discount
Keyword being immediately. Now I will say that this isn't certain. Because she also says "begin manufacturing our own weapons", but that is couched in stealing the methods of their manufacturing process. To me, it is a toss-up between "we will begin manufacturing weapons" as an absolute thing or "we will begin manufacturing weapons [with this process]". Personally, because she says immediately, I am inclined to believe that the Crimson Caravan already had a weapons manufacturing division, otherwise it would take time for them to put together the infrastructure for that manufacturing.
1 month ago
Anonymous
The most telling quests in NV are in Camp Forlorn Hope >NCR uses pre-war radio encryption >Caesar cracks those encryptions >the guys in skirts who forbid using technology cracked radio encryption >they then proceed to make new radio encryption >NCR cannot crack it because they just used old methods >cant make new ones >faction that is forbidden from even using radios invents better encryption than faction who relies on radios
1 month ago
Anonymous
None of that makes sense considering how much the game tells you that Legion forbids any technology at all, so much to the point that Caesar has to ask you pretty-fricking-please to step into a bunker owned by House just to destroy shit. And he won't even step one legionary foot inside to make sure you did, so you can literally turn on a robot factory underneath his camp and he'll believe it was destroyed just because the ground shook.
Man that's dumb. And I'm supposed to believe the NCR doesn't have people who understand radio, and the Legion does? I would roll my eyes at that shit if I saw it ingame.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Alright, I just went ahead and wiki'd it: >Fallout: New Vegas Official Game Guide Collector's Edition p.306: "[2.09] Crimson Caravan Company >The Crimson Caravan Company is the largest supplier to the NCR of military-grade weaponry, and an assortment of provisions and other equipment types. Their base of operations is a highly fortified walled base just east of the main Freeside and Strip area, alarmingly close to their rivals; the Gun Runners. There are two entrances to this location (east and west)."
1 month ago
Anonymous
Anon, the first game starts off right off the bat with a silly cartoon followed by a comical execution.
1 month ago
Anonymous
[...] >American soldier shooting a POW in the head and waving to the camera while his buddies laugh is not farcical >FEV experimentation to create a super-soldier that makes the subject totally moronic is not farcical
Fallout is meant to be American Mad Max with more satire and not Borderlands, I have no idea why Bethdrones have such a hard time grasping that
1 month ago
Anonymous
What is that image supposed to prove? All he says is "We wanted to make another RPG but not another sequel to A Bard's Tale and so I made something that ripped off a movie and an RPG." That's got nothing to do with what we are talking about.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Read the post moron, we're talking about the intended tone of the IP and we have a quote from the creator the inspiration was Mad Max
1 month ago
Anonymous
And? That still doesn't say anything about tone. What does say something about tone is the content of the game which is frequently silly and light-hearted. The very first thing you see is silly and light-hearted.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>And? That still doesn't say anything about tone.
If Mad Max is cited as the inspiration then we can confidently say the tone is meant to be more like Mad Max than Borderlands >What does say something about tone is the content of the game which is frequently silly and light-hearted.
I don't think there's anything in real Fallout I'd describe as light-hearted, even the naive media is only used to contrast with the brutal wasteland >The very first thing you see is silly and light-hearted.
A POW execution is silly and light-hearted? Anon the fact you're a sociopath doesn't mean the game is, you're supposed to find it grim. Satire of war and other brutal human conditions can be funny without being a joke.
1 month ago
Anonymous
Nah, just that the weird obsession with pre-War America is the evidence for why Bethesda doesn't "get" Fallout
>main sticking point is the fact that it was supposed to be a critique of blind patriotism but it was so clumsy everyone thought it was earnestly patriotic and cheered alongside it
Still funny
>main sticking point is the fact that it was supposed to be a critique of blind patriotism but it was so clumsy everyone thought it was earnestly patriotic and cheered alongside it >sticking
kek
Liberty Prime
All the random brands introduced in Fallout 3, like sugar bombs or Blamco
Uh...s-synths...
The actual answer is that the addition of the Pip-Boy radio is actually a genius game design decision that did a lot to align the tone of Fallout's gameplay with Bethesda's version of its setting
>The actual answer is that the addition of the Pip-Boy radio is actually a genius game design decision that did a lot to align the tone of Fallout's gameplay with Bethesda's version of its setting
The issue with the radio is that it completely destroys the tone the games used to have, one of my favorite moments in NV was just wandering the desert with the radio off and hearing a Mark Morgan ambient track, whereas with the radio there's never any reason to hear anything but a ranting announcer or a gay tune. It'd be nice occasionally but it just dominates too much of the gameplay.
I mean, I also tend to turn it off in New Vegas for similar reasons. The fact that NV has a lot of classic Fallout tracks helps establish the tone. I'm just saying that it's very effective, just in the complete opposite tonal and thematic direction of Fallout 1.
Coincidentally, if you go back to the E3 2008 trailer for Fallout 3, it's telling that they mimicked the introduction of Fallout 1 after their fake Vault-Tec commercial, but then continue playing the music over the subsequent game footage of the player character shooting, and shooting, and shooting, and...
?t=85
It really misses the point of what makes the Fallout 1 intro so memorable. The moment when the TV turns off and all you're left with is the sound of the wind through the skeletons of skyscrapers before Ron Perlman's narration starts
Just look at the guns too. Shit, Fallout 1 has a Desert Eagle. A lot of guns looked modern and Fallout 2 goes even harder with that. Bethesda's guns are ugly and lame in comparison.
Despite their shitty guns locking down hardcore in F4 and Starfield, Fallout 3 assault rifle and Fallout 3 chinese assault rifle were sorely missing from New Vegas.
Well to be fair The NCR, GECK, and The Highwayman were also F1. Just mainly the slides or a manual joke, F2 would go on to develop the concepts. F2 still did introduce Vault City, New Reno, The Shi, Hubologist (which Beth would also borrow), Tribals, Jet which NV itself would build off of.
>The Highwayman
This reminds me of how woefully unused it went after 2, maybe with F5 being 15 years away Bethesda manages to develop car tech so they can use it as the big selling point in the promotional material
That was one of the highlights of F2 was cruising around with the gang going 4x speed on the worldmap passing Enclave fricktards. If Beth can't do a Highwayman I'd take a motorcycle stand-in.
Oh yeah, Liberty Prime existed. I feel like even if you completely ignore Fallout lore and go for rule of cool that Liberty Prime is lame and forgetful. Something about this design just feels uninspired to me. Couldn't Bethesda take cues from either their power armor design philosopy or other mecha franchises. I feel like an Iron Giant-esque design would work.
a good story is determined by an author writing 100% of it, then only sharing about 20% with the audience
things make sense internally and the audience gets hints of that, but they dont know how, and that captivates them
>wrecking the lore because fans guessed some secret correctly is moronic
this feels like a relevant time to mention that the fallout show was created by the same person who did westworld
S1 was good but Nolan got mad fans picked up on all the foreshadowing and guessed the twist beforehand so he turned S2, S3, and S4 into a stupid incomprehensible mess that means nothing and leads nowhere simply so no one could guess what happens
1 month ago
Anonymous
I see. I wonder if people actually want to figure out what's going to happen. The shows seems to have good score. Could be good special effects making idiots go wow, tho.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>The shows seems to have good score.
So does Rings of Power, The Witcher, Invinicble, Hazbin Hotel etc
1 month ago
Anonymous
Point taken.
Good, normalgays are so hopeless.
1 month ago
Anonymous
>Good
*God
1 month ago
Anonymous
The frick do you mean?
A quick browse of metacritic for those titles and Rings of Power has a mid critic score of 71 and piss poor user score of 2.8. Invincible season 1 is also mid critic score of 73, high user score of 8.1. Season 2 is an average critic score of 82 and a worse user score of 5.9.
Good score my ass.
You would be right if you were discussing another franchise. The core goal of the isometric Fallouts was to explore the functions and ethics of a post-nuclear society; and the games were very good as a result of this. To strip away this goal to pursue something else, especially something as asinine as Fallout 3 and 4's main plots, would be a massive waste of the IP.
So lets just rape and gut it because frick you? Internal consitancy and even the simple concept of caring about anything seems like complete poison to casual morons like you for some reason.
The Fallout setting was a complete goldmine for Bethesda. Should they just not buy the IP and make a hallmark best seller video game series because >muh integrity? >muh lore?
Yeah, ofc the cartridges would cost more casings.
It's not like 1 cartridge=1 casing. This creates an economy where people keeps reusing casings since metal and ammunition is a rare yet a very important resource.
>every body on all four looking for the casings after any gun fight
kek thats the worse idea itt
>brass goblins exist both IRL and in Fallout
Yeah frick that
In a post apocalyptic scenerio, people would be doing that anyways. Not everyone would be able to make more ammo from those casings. But there definitely would be people doing that and even selling those ammo.
At the very least, people would be using the metal from those casings for making tiny knives or whatever.
>pay for the labour of creating a functional bullet with the case, a portion of the material needed to create the bullet
Using a bullet increases its value? Or do cases have a fraction of the value of the bullets?
ammo would obviously be mroe expensive than the cartridges themselves.
And I suppose bullets themselves would be slightly more expensive.
>ammo would obviously be mroe expensive than the cartridges themselves.
So like how a coke can can be taken to the right place and I get 5 cents back on it.
More like how glass coke bottles were recycled. Or like how certain raw materials are used to print paper, how metals are used to make israeliteellery that is sold for far more, etc.
In the wasteland where everyone needs to be armed, this makes sense.
Some apocalyptic scenerios already have ammo based econo;y but it isnt as realistic,
They just say everyone barters with bullets,
>pay for the labour of creating a functional bullet with the case, a portion of the material needed to create the bullet
Using a bullet increases its value? Or do cases have a fraction of the value of the bullets?
>Theres litereally nothing different between a one off easter egg you can randomly stumble upon and an entire quest to dedicated to bullshit played off as not a joke but something your meant to accept as happening within the internal logistics of the setting
Why are you people so moronic.
>wow game is fixed
Black person please, do you honestly think adding third party content to a game actually changes anything, are you actually this stupid?
The point is it's about as meaningful to the enjoyment of your game as a Tardis in a random special encounter.
Just mentally filter those bottlecaps into Wasteland Dollarydoos. Problem solved. You ignored the problem as easily as ignoring the existence of the Tardis in the Fallout-verse.
when i made my character, their unarmed skill was the strongest no matter what I did stats wise. So I just decided to play unarmed. Then when I actually play the game unarmed attacks do like 1 damage.
Cool, least your honest unlike anons that talk about games they've never played. If you want to ever try them grab Fixt/Et Tu for F1 and the Unofficial Patch for F2. Then set combat speed to max and turn always running on. They're great games.
I was like you once. Started with 3 as well because I didn't game on PC growing up. You should play them, they're good fun. Get past Shady Sands and Junktown and let the fun begin.
About to finish another playthrough.
People who take everything in Fallout seriously don't understand that it's meant to be full of jokes. It's a part of what makes it work, why it's popular.
>And? That still doesn't say anything about tone.
If Mad Max is cited as the inspiration then we can confidently say the tone is meant to be more like Mad Max than Borderlands >What does say something about tone is the content of the game which is frequently silly and light-hearted.
I don't think there's anything in real Fallout I'd describe as light-hearted, even the naive media is only used to contrast with the brutal wasteland >The very first thing you see is silly and light-hearted.
A POW execution is silly and light-hearted? Anon the fact you're a sociopath doesn't mean the game is, you're supposed to find it grim. Satire of war and other brutal human conditions can be funny without being a joke.
moron
Well? Why are people still lugging around bottle caps 200 years later?
I'm quoting that guy
He literally calls the player a moron if I remember right
Yeah he does, no matter if you fall to his scam or not.
well he's 2 for 2 then. One of the better fallout characters i've seen
Because the israelites blow up the world with their mercantilism so money is considered HARAM like AI in Dune.
Never played fallout but I'm guessing the problem is that it wasn't actually 200 years ago?
You're fricking moronic, characters can say things that aren't true
No moron, it's that bottle caps have an actual lore reason why they are used but nu-bethesda fallout fans don't know it because it's never actually explained and to be honest it doesn't actually make sense for societies on the East Coast to even be using them so bottle caps have just become a meme currency.
Bottlecaps were just used to barter and round up the price in Fallout 1.-
moron.
This. Bottlecaps made more sense when they're just a means of rounding value in barter. They were never supposed to be in place of fiat currency, e.g., you get 2000 bottlecaps and buy everything with them.
I don't get it, how is this in any way lorebreaking?
He's just poking fun at the fact they use bottlecaps as currency.
It isn't lorebreaking. The whole point is that it draws acute attention to something that actually is lorebreaking (the inexplicable continued use of bottlecaps on the East Coast), then proceeds to play it as a joke when it is a legitimate question about the setting. There absolutely should be people seriously saying "why the frick are we using bottlecaps".
>why the frick are we using bottlecaps?
Large in quantity due to Nuka Cola's pre-war popularity, small enough to work as a coin and, due to Bethesda's decision to use it for Fallout 3 and Obsidian's decision to use them in NV, universally accepted everywhere in the US.
>so TL;DR: we use it again because they used it again in the past so we use it again now, again
*bites lore* AAAAAck *dies*
t. has no idea how money works
>Rare but not too rare
>Doesn't take up much space
>Doesn't decay
>Isn't usable for anything else
It fits all the criteria for a good currency
Besides not decaying, none of those things are relevant to a currency. And the untarnishable aspect of caps is suspect as well.
One thing which I haven't seen mentioned is that bottle caps are typically made from aluminium which no one in the wasteland could actually produce due to the prohibitive energy costs. In some sense it would then be a precious metal.
>Large in quantity due to Nuka Cola's pre-war popularity
So hundreds of other things like, for example, ammunition. Unlike ammunition, bottlecaps carry absolutely no inherent value. You can't use them for anything, they can't be consumed. They would only be valuable as a currency in themselves as opposed to a non-durable bartering good. Essentially, an abstraction as a store of value. Something which would be subject to supply and demand as well, you would need an organized force to regulate supply and uphold demand with a guarantee. In which case:
> small enough to work as a coin
Why not literally just use coins. I don't know if you have every held a bottlecap, but they are incredibly flimsy. You can bend one in half with your hand with little effort. Not to mention, they are susceptible to rust. If they issue was "we need something light weight to work as a coin", I could think of plenty other better options. Like minting literal fricking coins, because if there is an organized force capable of regulating the fricking bottlecap market, then it surely has the capacity to run a mint.
So either the Commonwealth is a shithole, in which case people would be using non-durable goods which have inherent value (like alcohol, cigarettes, and ammo) to trade. Or at some point (or currently) there exists an organization within the Commonwealth that could regulate a currency, in which case.... they should use a currency. Bottlecaps were only used in Fallout 1 because the Wasteland was in an incredibly unique situation where the barter economy was dominant but a massive monopoly could guarantee a currency
As for:
>due to Bethesda's decision to use it for Fallout 3 and Obsidian's decision to use them in NV
These were both shit decisions. New Vegas was born out of not wanting to make things too complicated from Fallout 3, but I still disagree with the call even if I understand it. Also, this is a meta reason for why bottlecaps are used, not a proper in-universe reason.
you must get no pussy to care about this shit
Do you have any fricking idea where you are right now?
You're not a virgin? Get the frick out of here and go live a normal life and have sex while we argue over a fictional worlds currency you loser!
the lucky ones then
pussy is worth staggeringly less than the child it concieves
Not an argument
stayed in the thread just to say: I've fricked women that are several times out of your league, and you're a fricking dweeb.
barter system sucks balls which is why a medium of exchange is used. your gay argument is destroyed by this
>Why not literally just use coins.
they are effectively coins. they are already minted. why not use them?
>you would need an organized force to regulate supply
no you don't, nobody's printing them anymore
>NV
caps in new vegas are backed by the hub merchants, specifically the crimson caravan, which makes sense because they'd be one of the first organized groups to venture out to vegas
the NCR dollar still exists, but is not actually backed by anything because the BoS depleted the NCR's gold reserves, which is why some NPCs accuse it of being worthless (not payable in specie)
Legion currency also exists, and is pressed from precious metal much like the original NCR dollar was
caps are basically a gameplay convenience because it would be annoying for the player to deal in 2-3 different currencies, including whatever an independent vegas would use otherwise. however, obsidian still bothered to implement 3 competing currencies and provide rational explanations for their presence and relative worth.
you're just parroting bethesda's explanation, which is that the physical characteristics of caps are what caused people to use them. gold may be just a pretty metal (at least traditionally), but it requires industrial / machining capacity to mine and process - a point that fallout 2 makes by having only the NCR trade in processed ore, while redding and new reno use the ore itself.
shit's all gay and moronic
>gold may be just a pretty metal
It also very importantly never deteriorates unless exposed to certain materials
>Large in quantity due to Nuka Cola's pre-war popularity
that makes them the opposite of desirable.
Like pre-war money?
Why do they still use them in New Vegas?
What reason do they have?
Fricking idiot.
I don't like the use of caps in New Vegas either moron.
use stick
TRVE
>Explain to Ceaser how he can save loads of recources on getting slaves to mint his metal currency with European history and sticks.
>He's in shock at first at your insane stupid idea, then disbelief as he realizes what you're saying is true.
>His ego's huge so you have to walk him through each step by step system of how the "currency" works and how he could control it while using almost no effort.
>With high enough barter and INT you can convince him to use sticks.
>By doing this the legion get a few new roles around camp shifting to production and tallying of these sticks while all the metal is now being made into bullets spears ect boosting their war economy massively.
For a faction so obsessed with book-keeping, I am honestly kind of surprised that they didn't have a similar system in place already.
Because Ceaser is an educated idiot mimicking the roman empire, he just never learned about european history so he couldn't employ a better system for the wasteland.
He is literally just larping as the romans.
>Caesar gives his long winded rundown of his ideology, babbling on about thesis and antithesis, seething at the NCR
>"okay but what is your policy on sticks?"
>[Speech 90] You're right, individually the currency is as weak as a twig.
>[Barter 100] But as a united currency, we form a MIGHT homosexual.
i forgot the shoes idc i spent way too much time on that
10/10
You're a fricking legend
Bro there's people IRL right now asking 'why are we using fiat, this is stupid'
Yes. And there is an explanation for why we are using fiat. Is there a good explanation for why the Commonwealth is using bottlecaps when clearly superior options exist?
Shifting a whole region from one currency to another is a bother?
Why was the Commonwealth using bottlecaps in the first place? And how are bottlecaps in themselves not already a massive enough bother to justify using anything else?
>Why was the Commonwealth using bottlecaps in the first place?
Because Nuka Cola was consumed that much across the country pre-war. That's the whole point of bottlecap currency in the setting in the first place, it's fricking everywhere and has no use besides to be a bottlecap. Sticks can be used for kindling or to make weapons, tools, structures, etc.
>That's the whole point of bottlecap currency in the setting in the first place
Non-isometric player detected, opinion invalidated. And lmao at arguing against sticks.
The frick you talking about moron? NCR dollars in Fallout 2 were also coins. Shiny and minted, but still coins.
Bottlecaps weren't used in Fallout 1 because of nuka cola. Go play the isometrics moron
?? You can clearly see Nuka cola written on the caps.
Black person, bottlecaps were not used in the isometrics because "Nuka Cola was common" and "they were just bottlecaps". They were used because the water merchants use their monopoly to create a fixed rate of exchange between water and bottlecaps. Last I checked, there is no water merchant fixing these rates in Fallout 4, or any Fallout after Fallout 1. It makes zero sense to use fricking bottlecaps because "hurr durr there's alot of them!"
>Last I checked, there is no water merchant fixing these rates in Fallout 4, or any Fallout after Fallout 1
NTA but Fallout 3 is literally about your dad going up against big water.
>going against big water
The Enclave isn't fixing the value of bottlecaps to a set amount of water.
Yeah but water vendors will be out of a job if free water is around for everyone. You think the enclave was the man behind the curtains, but there was an even shadowier man behind the man behind the curtains.
>, but there was an even shadowier man behind the man behind the curtains.
Decker?
>know the blade runner pistol is in 1
>Decker?
>Maltese Falcon?
>time to get myself that gun
>bust down his door
>cap his ass, not without great fricking difficulty
>rifle through his pockets
>all he fricking has is throwing knives
>the gun is a reward from some fricking bum down the street who won't even give it to you until you're an arbitrary level
Yeah but at least you saved Daren Hightower('s bottom line and monopoly over the most important resource in the Hub)
>accidentally saved Hightower
>never even met him because his doorman told me to frick off
You can peak through his window and kill him with a rocket launcher
>that image
I like how the show manages to perfectly capture the fallout games in that the main story is absolutely shit but the world and sidequests are entertaining.
>tfw the Enclave's plan all along was to nationalize DC's supply of clean water and let anyone who is a citizen of This Great United State live without bending to the ((water merchant)) or the "charitable" Brotherhood water rationers
Oy vey, we are the Hubs chosen people! We brought order to the West Coast!
Actual American currency would also be everywhere though
Why not just keep using that?
Because pre-war currency comes in varying states of disrepair.
And bottlecaps don't? Have you held a bottlecap?
>Currency can be found anywhere
>Has a more valuable form (bones) rather than sticks.
>Is easily identifiable to the person and given the worth the person issuing it gives
>Can also be used by larger groups with ease if they have anyone who knows how to work with wood or carve things.
We need a fallout 4 stick mod immediately
Caps were used in Fallout 1 because the place was an arid wasteland and the people who controlled the economy, the water merchants, had the idea to use bottle caps as currency because it was tied to bottled water and backed by it.
Now caps are used in newer games because... because they ran out of ideas.
fallout fans are highly autistic
back when fallout 3 was revealed NMA was frothing because the vault door didn't have the "correct" number of spokes
it has only gotten worse now with trannies who only consume youtube videos thinking that the series took itself very seriously or had any consistency
>why yes, I enjoy eating todd's shit, how can you tell?
You are a black gorilla man.
>You are a black gorilla man.
Stop projecting your fantasies, shit-eater
>ESL
Oh you’re on of those “never seen a white person” type of third world monkey.
>muh NMA boogeyman
It isnt.
It is just New Vegas tards b***hing about random shit because they hate Fallout 4.
Nothing new. They have been getting even more desperate since everybody started shitting on them for being such insufferable morons.
Bottlecaps were only in F1 and were basically a form of Fiat currency as they were difficult to replicate, easy to carry, and limited in supply
In f2 everyone is using Gold, in NV the brotherhood had nuked the gold mines and destroyed the NCR gold reserves so their money became worthless, yet they still used paper money, only the people in Vegas were using caps because it was a neutral currency.
>were basically a form of Fiat currency as they were difficult to replicate, easy to carry, and limited in supply
They were backed by the merchants in the Hub with water
ncr currency backed by gold was dumb... it still relied on pre-war understandings of currency to hold value. the places that have high amounts of pre-war money? those would have gold in vaults too. banks and such. rich estates. some junkie raider could look through the rubble of a rich man's estate and find a bar of gold and get rich.
what use is gold in the post-war apocalypse? nobody can even mine it any more
>what use is gold in the post-war apocalypse? nobody can even mine it any more
Secondaries should stop posting about Fallout
doesn't change the fact that gold is useless. now stop samegayging
Anon you could make the same argument about how gold is useless now.
>doesn't change the fact that gold is useless
it's useless in the real world too but that doesnt stop rich people from hoarding it
think Black person think
so why are bottlecaps a problem
>nobody can even mine it any more
bethesdrone secondary detected
redding was a town in 2 where people mined gold
tell me you didn't play classic fallout without telling me you didn't play classic fallout challenge: [SUCCESS]
Not even classic Fallout, New Vegas has a massive quarry. Frick I think even Fallout 3 had a mine.
>he doesn't even know about the post cooldown
Secondary
>NV the brotherhood had nuked the gold mines
why do that?
>"When I was a kid, before the bombs dropped, you could go to the corner store and trade five bottle caps for a soda pop. There's not much cash around these days...but I see a whole lot of bottle caps..."
>bottle caps have an actual lore reason why they are used
No they don't.
Yes they do
4 posts up
the east coast using bottle caps never made sense anyway
What do they spend over there? Precious metals?
>Fallout 1: water merchants back the bottlecap due to it being limited in quantity, 1 cap = 1 unit of water
>Fallout 2: they move onto paper money backed by the NCR
>everything since: bottlecaps because Fallout 1 did it
who's gonna spend NCR dollars on the east coast??
>The only two options are bottle caps and ncr bucks.
It makes more sense water merchants travelled across the US and took the bottlecap currency with them especially since the NCR never managed to gain a foothold outside of the West coast.
Neither explanation makes sense, luckily these options are not the only ones available. I mean surely somebody would start trading with a commodity that has inherent value, or an organized group would collaborate to create an actual proper currency that won't rust away in your pockets and weigh you down. Because bottlecaps are seriously fricking stupid, and fricksake honestly even NCR bux would make more sense on the East Coast. Bottlecaps were only valuable because of very specific circumstances.
Not sure if you missed his point on purpose or you truly have the 'tism
Who the frick is going to spend west coast water cartel liters on the east coast?
Who gives a shit about the east coast??
Fallout can't just be the west coast forever!!!! AAArrrgh!!! We need Fallout Texas for frick sake!
whats going against the possibility of merchants backing bottlecaps on the east cost? you're not being told in game because bethesda don't care about this sort of details so why even care in the first place if they don't but i don't see how its impossible
bethesda should stop advertising their shit as RPG or story driven or some shit and just accept they're into quirky funny looter-shooters
The inconvenience of lugging around literal bottle caps that can be inflated at any bottle press factory?
Not to mention that bottlecaps are not particularly durable. For the weight, flimsiness, and potential for sudden collapse; you really might as well just use ammo as currency (which is pretty much how it works in Fallout 1, as caps are more so designed to cover the difference in barter transactions)
It is a really shitty currency that only made sense in Fallout 1, where the Water Merchants held a monopoly over the most valuable resource in the Wastes and thus had the authority to guarantee bottlecaps as a proof of work, which even then were only a small portion of what was mostly a barter economy built on trading commodities.
>whats going against the possibility of merchants backing bottlecaps on the east cost?
The fact that there is no organized body of merchants on the east coast to back them as a currency. They just accept bottlecaps because Bethesda are fricking hacks.
There is one in 3
Okay, I'll bite
There were no israeli people around who cared.
If only this was implied in any way other than a terminal entry saying
>We picked up the habit from merchants passing through
You know, worldbuilding
This is also moronic btw, the only impetus to create a fiat currency is to have the ability to print it so it makes more sense they would have chosen something potentially unlimited in quantity like paper money.
The Water Merchants were not a proper government that had to spend through inflation. They used real assets to maintain their power and pay for shit, ie their monopoly on water, and everyone answered to them as a result. Bottlecaps were used as proof of work and could be exchanged for some water with the merchants, and this existed because it is easier to carry around a cap than a thing of water and it's not like caravanners needed all of their promised water immediately. The bottlecap was directly fixed in value to a quantity of water and was more an item of convenience that became a currency than an intentional form of currency itself. And the actual economy itself is still built on barter, these caps are really only used to round out transactions as opposed to buying and selling things wholesale entirely with caps.
Ok but that is not my point, there is no reason for them to establish caps because of their limited quantity. Forming a fiat currency because of limited quantity defeats the entire point of forming a fiat currency. Caps make no sense no matter which fallout.
They aren't establishing caps as a currency, that was entirely an unintended side effect of what was really meant to just be an IOU system from a group that had monopolized the water supply. Like I said, caps are directly fixed to an amount of water. The initial intent of the cap was literally "it is lighter to carry this around instead of your water". Most people still stuck to a barter economy, but they realized "oh shit these Water Merchant IOU's are actually a pretty good way to round out a transaction". Caps becoming a currency in Fallout 1 is similar to something like cigarettes becoming a currency in collapsed economies. It has a fairly inflexible demand, someone will always want them for consumption, but they are still a pretty small unit of value while also not being stupidly bulky. It's not like the Water Merchants saw that they needed to build the roads, necessitating a need for spending through inflation. If they want something done, they can just pay directly with their real assets. It just so happens that their real assets aren't comfortable to carry around, so they hand you a cap instead and you can feel free to swing by for a swig of water in exchange for it whenever you please.
What he is saying is that water formed a reserve currency and caps acted as bank notes which can be made and traded without a government and are not fiat. Still moronic though, the british in the dark ages just used sticks for the same purpose and talley sticks would work better than caps not even sure how caps would work
Caps were a short term measure that came about organically. There was little thought put into, it was literally "oh shit what do we have laying around that we can give you so we know we owe you water... oh well we have a big pile of bottle caps and I don't many of this are still around the Wasteland today". It is a notably inefficient system, and one that isn't really built to last (which is why you'll notice that "wealthy" characters like Gizmo also have very clear assets where most of their wealth actually is, instead of just sitting on piles of bottlecaps)The actual economy itself still largely operates on barter, people trading commodities for other commodities, and caps are only there to round it out, being the equivalent of physically putting water on the table in a trade. Once humanity moved beyond trading guns for cans of beans and actually needed a proper currency in Fallout 2 instead of just bartering like cavemen, they actually started printing money or used gold to trade.
One thing worth mentioning about the sticks is that they were cracked into two pieces with one half being issued as currency and the other kept by the issuer, so you could check if someone's stick is authentic by seeing if it fits flush with the half that you (presumably the local king) kept.
who cares
Everyone cared. Next time think before you post
That system seems way to easy to game on the issuers part. Could literally just snip off a bit more of the stick and bye-bye guarantee. I know that the feudal system rested alot on mutual trust, so people weren't so keen on getting a reputation as a scam artist, but that still just seems like a really easily gamed system, or even a system susceptible to accidents.
I care anon.
That's why only those with power issued them. The way you made sure people wanted your sticks is by collecting taxes in the form of sticks so that there would always be demand for more sticks by the public.
You are fricking with me, right? This is a shitpost or I am just incredibly confused. They were not fricking tithing sticks in order to reduce the supply of sticks in the stick market.
That's how medieval English economy worked, and incidentally most modern currencies.
You know, I never read up that much on how Medieval contracts were upheld, I guess I just assumed that they used their fancy signet rings to stamp wax seals as a method to verify contracts and things like that. I am convinced this stick thing had to be a fairly niche that was prevalent in tiny part of Ingerland for a couple years, because it just seems like such an absurd system.
Nope, the sticks were an incredibly common form of currency referenced in the founding of the Bank of England and also the Napoleonic code.
considering there's an entire industry dedicated to helping people store their sticks off-shore so that the government can't take them
not that crazy
I am happy he's not lying.
>The split tally of the Exchequer remained in continuous use in England until 1826, when the conditions required for activation of the Receipt of the Exchequer Act 1783 (23 Geo. 3. c. 82), the death of the last Exchequer Chamberlain, came about.[13] In 1834, following the passing of 4 Will. 4. c .15, tally sticks representing six centuries' worth of financial records were ordered to be burned in two furnaces in the Houses of Parliament.[14] The resulting fire set the chimney ablaze and then spread until most of the building was destroyed.[8]
I am going to have a fricking aneurysm. Frick new earth creationism, I am a tally stick denier. This is looney toons ass shit.
>4 Will. 4. c .15,
OK I admit I'm a brainlet: what does this mean? Is this someone's name? Is it a number?
>For will, for you see, check this 15.
he was trying to predict his post number and failed sadly, just like the NCR.
I think it is the code for the law itself
The forth session of Parliament under King William the forth, chapter 15.
>4 (forth) Will(iam).IV c(hapter) 15
Why didn‘t Aragorn introduce tally sticks as part of his tax reforms?
>One of the refinements was to make the two halves of the stick of different lengths. The longer part was called stock and was given to the party which had advanced money (or other items) to the receiver. The shorter portion of the stick was called foil and was given to the party which had received the funds or goods.
>stocks are fricking sticks
No fricking way. Nuhuh. Not biting this bait.
It's a solid way to keep a record of transactions. The anon is presenting it in a weird way to use it as a metaphor for modern day fiat currencies.
A stick saying "I promise to pay the bearer on demand the sum of x pounds" was used like a currency because in practice it's no different to a modern banknote.
You just went full David Graeber, never go full David Graeber
It actually worked well enough for the king to start collecting them for taxes, at any rate trust is the foundation for trade at all, nobody would break a stick with a Black person
Also apparently the Brits managed to burn down their parliament when they finally decided to get rid of their stick collection in the 19th century.
>nobody would break a stick with a Black person
Yeah but the Black person only needs to win once and you are shit out of luck. I mean, I know that in Medieval times people got flayed alive for that shit; but still, it just seems like such an easily gamed system.
Maybe if you are some commie gay that thinks society fundamentally doesn’t work without some overbearing authority figure. Good business is the best business.
The tally stick system operated because of the Exchequers though, it was a system enforced by an authority figure
They would often have multiple safeguards like a signature or stamp mark across the break.
This is still how it is done in 3rdie countries where they don’t use computers for their contracts.
They will have to notarize and stamp every single thing and make sure the stamp is across both parties copy.
First world still uses stamps, champ.
>tfw you are the designated keeper of the sticks for the local lord
>someone disputes something
>have to spend all week going through the hoard of broken popsicle sticks
Iirc they were typically given a "serial number" to make matching easier.
>Be me, Stick Keeper
>Working for my lord who's at war with some other fricking dickhead lord for control of england while the welsh occasionally come by to litter our town and castle with arrows.
>I hate this fricking job but it's better than working the fields and I can't just say no to my lord.
>Some dumbass comes in and demands his pay (more sticks) while also asking me to verify a stick he got from someone else.
>Frick I have to spend hours searching through our fricking COLLECTION OF STICKS TO FIND THE ONE THAT FITS.
>Suddenly get brilliant idea when issuing out the sticks I'm supposed to manage.
>"Oi, sir? I'm going to need to carve a number in that."
>Guy looks confused, explain to him how I plan on carving a number onto his stick, then the other half of the stick so I can more easily search for them if anyone comes to verify the stick.
>He's confused but agrees.
>Begin carving numbers into more sticks, along with other random symbols.
>People begin getting antsy, ask me to "verify" their sticks by carving into them.
>They're fricking counterfit sticks.
>Turns out like half the town were using counterfit sticks and inflating our currencies value
>Bust a massive counterfitting group completely by accident, guards take them to the lords dungeons.
>Get a promotion, since the lord is so happy with my work.
>Head-Wood-Carver.
>Even more fricking wood carving and now I have to train a bunch of people he pulled from the fields to help carve the sticks.
Anons if he wins this war we better start using metal currency.
I just skimmed the wiki page on these tally sticks. Holy fricking shit what the frick am I reading there is absolutely no fricking way. I am falling for a meme, historians and archeologists are tricking me. I refuse to accept that THEY WERE INSTRUMENTAL IN FORMING THE BANK OF ENGLAND
Medieval china had paper currency
Beshitsda has flanderized the series to death.
>Fallout Tactics uses printed money backed by BOS
>some settlements don't accept it and use ring pull due to it being rare in Fallout Universe
New Vegas having multiple currencies was based
It's a shame they didn't go all in on it.
there were people who got filtered by new vegas because it was orange instead of green. if different currency types actually mattered, there'd be riots on reddit.
I have a feeling engine limitations prevented it. It was also a pain in the ass scrolling down the list just to sell some legion coins.
>seething about fallout lore
Emil used all his brain cells for this dialogue and nothing ramained for the rest of the game
Shill
Emil was going for that Marvel style humor, problem is it doesn't work as Fallout has its own tone. I don't think Emil gets the tone of Fallout quite right.
not exactly related, but why do ghouls go around being miserable all the time, when they are basically immortal
apparently they stink and don't feel very good
They look ugly, treated as monsters by most normal people and can randomly turn feral one day without any notice.
Just deink ghoul juice and you wont go feral
Didnt you watch the canon show?
inb4 the "vials" of anti-feral juice are actually FEV
You will know when you get older
the fear of death is actually the fear of eternally not being in control and that's what feral ghouls are except it's a tangible thing not just a philosophical concept in your head
1: You look like a hideous monster and people hate you for it
2: All your joints stiffen up and weaken, you can't really run anymore, just shamble around
3: You smell really bad, all the time
Being a ghoul sucks, you do not want to become a ghoul.
>2: All your joints stiffen up and weaken, you can't really run anymore, just shamble around
Tell that to feral ghouls. They really shouldn't be "shambling" that fast when they catch a whiff of vault dweller.
Presumably ferals don't care about pain or long-term bodily function. Unlike with normal ghouls, ferals don't care if they shred what is left of their joints to kill something.
>die at age 60-70
or
>potentially live until year 2277, 200 years after the bombs fell, and still do some cool ass living and breathing shit like Raul Tejada and Dean Domino
idk being a ghoul sounds kinda based
Yeah sure you live for 200 years, but you're so decrepit that you can barely do physical tasks. NV ghouls aren't very canonical.
>NV ghouls aren't very canonical.
As of FO1-2 canon, ghouls cannot run.
NV ghouls can run.
Ergo NV ghouls are inconsistent.
gay.
ok
>1: You look like a hideous monster and people hate you for it
I honestly started reading this post thinking you were calling him a troony.
I need to get out of this place.
besides the joints, I guess it still holds up
Luckily the shartposters are currently preoccupied in their bait threads, so discussion in this one has been extremely civil
If I take off that vault suit, will you quit the game?
The fact that this went under the radar because of kid in the fridge, and fallout 4 being shit in general...
This game continues to astound me on my current playthrough.
Economics just wasn't interesting until the left went and ruined everyones lives
Kid in the fridge doesn’t get brought up nearly enough. There’s absolutely no excuse for how fricking embarrassing that shit is. It’s like they asked a kid with Down’s syndrome to write a quest for them.
honestly pre-war money not being worthless in Fallout 3 or NV invalidates the reason people are supposed to be using caps
you can get 10k pre-war cash in one of the NV DLCs and that's a minimum 50k in caps if you have shit barter, or 100k if you can trade them for full price
>Enclave dismantled completely on West and East coasts
>Series dropping hints at them for next season
Anything to know about the Chicago branch of Enclave? Do they like deep dish pizza? Put a whole ass pickle on a hotdog?
The Enclave are back in California, there's no way that the doctor walked very far from whatever Enclave base he was at
>yeah that'll be uhh.. 5,294 caps for that oozi nine millameta
>*has to count out 5,294 bottlecaps just for one transaction*
>a 10mm Pistol?
>that'll be 6 million NCR dollars, sir!
But NCR dallars are quiet valuebl
before their gold reserves were destroyed, at least
In New Vegas, the exchange rate is 40 caps to a hundred dollar NCR bill.
That would mean it's a modest 13,235 in NCR dollars, and you could carry that easily with hunneds or the cut $500 NCR bill.
How about a phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range?
hey, just what you see, pal
If only there was some kind of place people could store their bottlecaps, and then get notes representing large amount of battlecaps that could be traded more conveniently..
People might even go for prolonged periods without ever even handling bottlecaps, since the notes would be considered just as good...Hmm...
>Casually dismantles worldbuilding to make a shitty joke
I believe you mean
>casually dismantles worldbuilding to reference a notoriously dumb scene from the indiana jones movie that no one likes
Was it worth it?
The indiana jones scene was a reference to the original script of Back to the Future where the time machine is a refrigerator and the only way to get 1.21 jiggawatts is to get nuked. Spielberg was obsessed with the idea.
it's references all the way down
Fallout 2 did it first.
and it was a mistake then too. one of the biggest decisions you make in fallout 1 is whether to steal necropolis's water chip without fixing their water pump, which the ghouls beg you not to do.
the kicker is that it's a major part of one of the fallout show's characters.
>"NEW GAMES BREAK LORE OF OLD GAMES."
>"The new games just did what the old games did."
>"UHM THE OLD GAMES ARE BAD ACTUALLY!"
Why are you people like this?
use your big boy words instead of pressing caps lock
it's almost like things are capable of having both good and bad aspects, and there are parts of fallout 2 that are widely criticized despite the improvements it made in other areas
NTA but thanks for the new House reaction pic.
Don't bother, anon. Fallout fans on Ganker loathe everything after 1, even if the OG devs made them.
the OG devs didnt make fallout 2, they all quit half way through
>Fallout fans on Ganker loathe everything after 1
Ironic since Tim Cain went on twitter to express how much he hates FO1 loregays.
After reading that I became desensitized. If the original team does not care why should I? For me NV was the end of the series, everything after that is like watching The Simpsons after season 12.
>NV makes fun of it if you have Wild Wasteland trait
Meanwhile Bethesda was like: yo I think these Indiana Jones guys were onto something
It's really dumb when in the same game there are 2 other instances of "ghouls being imprisoned and only kept alive by being fed by a third party" but this kid for some reason doesn't need to eat at all despite being trapped in the fridge for 200 years.
the fridge was stocked up beforehand.
Enough to feed someone for 200 years?
i mean it was empty when he came out didnt he?
It's a vault-tec fridge.
shit there was this medieval european custom of signing a document in duplicate or triplicate on the same piece of paper and then cutting it up in weird ways to make sure the edges only fit together from the originals, does anyone remember what that was called?
chirograph
The Fallout franchise, shall forever be the vidya equivalent of the Boss's will
This thread went from a dogshit fallout bait thread to a discussion about medieval currency and it has gotten way fricking better
do you accept your payment in homosexuals?
Sorry mate, this homosexuals too large, it doesn't line up with me hole. I'll have you whipped for trying to scam me.
I completely change my mind about Fallout 4. They should not be using bottlecaps. They should not be using minted currency either. Apparently, they should have been using sticks the entire time.
Incredible thread
There are no trees in FO3 and I don't think there were many sticks lying around in 1 or 2. I suppose they could have used animal (and human) bones instead.
If the Wasteland known as Bongistan had enough sticks to build the Bank of England, then surely a less hostile environment would have enough sticks laying around.
people also used to barter with little clay tokens in antiquity.
a farmer might offer to trade you a bushel of what for your services, but that won't do you any good if his harvest isn't until next year, so he might give you a clay token to exchange either with himself later or with a central storage facility in town.
obviously anyone can just make a clay token so they would hide little security figures inside the token. you would break the token on exchange and if the token was fake then they would break you.
>worth 10.5k caps
>most merchants can't afford one
>difficult to offload as a result
>anon discovers the entire point of Dead Money
The point of Dead Money is that old people are moronic.
barter me boy, take one to the gun runners and pick out a shiny new gun
I WILL give my entire gold to the NCR to reintroduce NCR dollars as the MAIN currency just as it was meant to be in Fallout 2 and I WILL side with Caesar anyways.
Why give the gold to CURRENT NCR? Current NCR would just use your gold to fund more expansions while the cattle barons rub their hands.
note my last point
>and I WILL side with Caesar anyways.
I fricking HATE j- I mean Brahmin Barons!!
>he's a deranged buffed NCR loses CLgay
based bloodluster
Like the anon before me said I headcanon handing over all the gold to the NCR just to stick it to the Botherhood.
And this is why all of the Sierra Madre gold canonically ended up in the Courier's bathtub in a Novac motel room
>point of Dead Money is to let go and puts a massive amount of wealth in front of you that you aren't supposed to be able to carry
>you can shift all of the gold bars for very little effort by just shifting the camera a little
bravo
Bottle cap is use because its hard to replicated at the time. Dollars, coins, and casino chips are being use later on in the west coast after a few decades. It just seem odd that the East Coast, after many decades, would still use bottlecaps, or uplift themselves to being a post apoc society. F3 made it seem like everyone there are moronic and F4 had an excuse that the Institute murder anyone when anyone tries to form a civilization
>This just in on NCR News Radio
>The commonwealth is being explored, the frontier is dangerous, full of raiders bandits all juiced up on the large amount of chems produced in the area.
>The strangest discovery found our exploration and diplomatic teams however, was the local currency...
>At some point in time it was clearly caps judging from what the locals say, most likely spreading there through word of mouth and ease of use.
>However... Recently, they've switched to an entirely new form of currency.
>Sticks.
>Issued by the leading group in control of the area, the "minutemen" issue out broken sticks to various groups and settlements to be cashed in for protection food and more.
>Because of this, these broken sticks were immediately adopted as the new form of currency, as they have actual value behind them backed by the small group.
>Soldiers report being mugged not for their NCR dollars, but for any... Sticks they may have.
>As hilarious as this sounds, we recommend staying far away from any of these sticks if you visit the commonwealth due to the large amount of raiders willing to kill you over them!
>Mfw the BoS shows up to burn my stick pile
Don't let anyone know. As long as they think I can verify their sticks the sticks will still have value.
>Go East to the Commonwealth from Arizona to escape the Legion since I am a jet addict
>find a local dealer in an old gas station
>it is absolutely filled to the brim with skeletons
>why the frick hasn't this b***h cleaned up
>she pulls out a few inhalers of jet
>I reach into my pouch and toss some caps onto the table
>she laughs
>as I tell her that I don't have any Legion denarii, she snaps the femur of one of the nearby skeletons
>hands me a piece of it
>"one day I will call in this debt."
>she pushes me out the door with a bag of jet and half a femur
What the actual frick is wrong with this place
>people are now calling sticks staps now as a cope
>California
>D.C
>Mojave
>Boston
Which one's more dangerous as a whole?
Appalachia is disqualified because those guys have giant pre-war magical monsters, too unfair.
Big MT is easily one of the most dangerous forces in the series so far, and by a large margin.
California, considering I had to savescum my way past super mutant patrols that would reduce all of my companions to bloody stumps in 1 round of combat
This. And the Enclave patrols later are even worse.
Just stay out of Mariposa and know your place, humie
>savescums past your patrols
>bypasses your perimeter with a cheap piece of plastic
>picks a random code on the vat control terminal
>blows up your base
haha oops
Boston. You can't go more than half a block without someone trying to kill you and themselves and everyone in the surrounding area.
Whoever decided to teach supermutants what mini-nukes are deserves to die if he hasn't already.
D.C. with Boston being a close second. D.C. is outright anarchy in a concrete jungle while Boston just had an attempted government dissolve and one of the largest factions present fracture.
I can't be a contrarian to this post anymore because there's currently a 4 way tie and I refuse to contribute
California, Super Mutant patrols in 1, Enclave patrols in 2, and random Deathclaw encounters in both games easily shit on anything that can be randomly encountered in the others
of course, after Fallout 2 California basically just becomes a modern first world nation so from that point onwards its probably the safest location in the world
bros i was selling a mini nuke (my most prized possession) to that moronic vault dweller up from Concord and he gave me a fricking stick are you serious I never would've supported to Minutemen I miss my caps being worth anything
I guess we figured out why people in fallout games keep skeletons in their houses.
Holy shit
>you never get sticks because everyone can see you'll do anything you're told to do for the most minimal of rewards
Canonically the Courier said "a homosexual for the homosexual" one too many times, so now everybody refuses to pay him properly.
literally the NCR's wet dream. Why haven't they adopted this yet?
>The Courier, fair and even-handed in his dealings throughout the Wasteland, was honored by the NCR for his support of the military at Hoover Dam. He was presented with the Golden Branch, the highest civilian decoration given by the Republic."
OH N-
They gave him a fricking stick painted piss yellow for winning the entire war for them lmfao
Hey that stick could be worth THOUSANDS.. maybe.
>*redeemable for one free tax break
>And you know what they did? Can you believe it? They gave him a piss stick!
>Oh uh here take this stick thanks for helping me out dude
>"Don't you guys use caps?"
>"...No? We just break off bones or sticks and cash them in as debts or favors y'know? Like caps were used a while ago because of some merchants peddling it but apparently they changed to paper currency a while ago so it lost its value. We use broken bones from the skeletons people keep around or just sticks to mark debts. Word of advice? Broken bones are worth way more than sticks survivor."
>"Wait, wait- Everyone's been paying me in caps."
>"You seriously thought caps had value dude? I hate to break it to you but you were being duped. I mean, you're from the past aren't you? Did you seriously think we'd just use caps for no reason and just give it value out of nothing dude? The sticks act as a way to mark debt or a service owed, like the one I gave you."
>"Our pre-war currency didn't have any backing."
>"Frick, that's rough mate."
>Piper shoots stick-bro.
>"YOU IDIOT, YOU TOLD HIM ABOUT THE STICKS! HE WAS DOING EVERYTHING FOR LIKE, FREE!"
>Nate proceeds to go full scorched earth on anyone who gave him caps while stealing everyones bones and sticks, demanding proper payment.
>Hey Nate Fallout, someone stole my stick that I kept as debt in exchange for freeing a synth, I need your help to get it back!
>Yes
>Sarcastic
>Yes?
>No (Yes)
>Quest Added: Stick It To Him
now nate has a vendetta against leafs and sticks. who knew
>Nate rakes the leaf
>Now he snaps the homosexuals
When will this menace be stopped?
You know what's really impossible to replicate? A broken bottle. Smash a bottle nice and good and you've got a completely unique set of pieces that go back together with no other bottle. Think about it. Great proof of contract.
Actually I'm just pretending because the idea of being the guy who has to reassemble broken bottles as proof of transactions is funny.
>back into the glass pit, bottler
Why does Fallout 2 have an actual GHOST in the 3rd settlement?
The real question is why the frick do the Vault Dwellers in 76 use caps?
>inb4 Whitespring Nuka-Cola promotion
pure coincidence for gameplay sake and is a late game location
>thinking literally anything in 76 makes any sense at all or is worth caring about
>is worth caring about
I unironically liked 76 when it came out.
I'm not responsible for your utter lack of taste.
Uhhhhh
Simulation of currency to create an economy without needing to mint coins?
Wasn't it because the automated factory in the north of the map churned them out at a steady rate?
BEST FRICKING THREAD ON Ganker
I fricking hate stick users, stickers as I like to call em.
>he invested in bottlecaps
>literal fricking bottlecaps
>bought high, still HODLing
>meanwhile stickbros are going to the moon
>*breaks your sticks*
>caps are still UNBROKEN
Wait.. No..
NO...
>break stick in half
>give half a stick to someone else
>then break the stick in half again so I can extend more loans with the same stick
Congrats, you just invented fractional reserve banking
Sticks were the best option.. I just never... sticked to it...
You should have thought more about your actions, now you are in a sticky situation
>NCR in 2281 if they used sticks instead of dollars
>burns your homosexuals
>These fricking commonwealth stick using savages aren't human I tell you, they ain't human ladies and gentlemen!
>That's right as you've most likely heard these "STICKERS" are in the commonwealth and I say we wipe 'em out, a bunch of JUNKIES do we need more of that in our democracy, in our great nation?
>No we do NOT, we do NOT need that! We need workers, do not need raiders, we do not need "PEOPLE" who use STICKS as a currency!
>I say I say we go up to these stick loving freaks and snap their twigs in half, give 'em half an end of a stick and tell them that it's worth a lot and they'll give you anything!
>These people are idiots, treat them like idiots and do NOT let them into our great nation!
Someone tries scamming a commonwealth immigrant by giving them a fake stick and they immediately get killed by them.
You'd think the NCR wouldn't pass up on the opportunity to get (technically) free labor
As the NCR dollar collapses, only the stick remains.
Thanks, friendo!
Name a weapon more sexier than this
Literally anything else
To keep with the theme of the thread
Behold, the most boring person of all time
as a kid me and my friends we used to poke tree branches into dog shit and beat each other with them
oh so fun it was, the golden days
The war was decades ago Nguyen.
>let's have a unique weapon that instant kills the weakest enemy in the game
thanks bethesda
correct
how many Enclave vaults are there?
What do you mean? Like which vaults were under US/Enclave control then basically all of them. If you mean where Enclave personnel survived I.E. the Oil Rig then that's up for debate.
there had to be way more than just the Oil Rig and Navarro, I'm just real curious on how the Enclave civilians lived. It has to be like Vault Dwellers but with way less wacky behavioral shit
I think that the Oil Rig had the same provisions that the Vaults did. Water chip and everything. Just with an extra helping of military and propaganda. Part of me feels conflicted on The Enclave appearing again beyond the Oil Rig. Obviously it's a big country and government was everywhere. But to me The Enclave feels like a fringe offshoot of the US government, like the CIA can't be everywhere. right?
Fallout FROST did something really cool if you've played it.
Essentially the military remnants are hanging around fortifying certain locations and receiving "orders" from the "higher ups" who survived. It's implied they're forming the enclave essentially, with promises of extraction ect as long as they keep the area secured.
They shoot on sight because most people in Frosts world are insane or willing to do anything for a bite to eat or better equipment.
>Have you seen those merchants from Hammerfell? They have curved sticks! CURVED STICKS!
>Emil's stupidity made Nate based
Now his stupidity made talking about wooden sticks fun
Impressive.
This has been the only good Fallout thread I've seen on this board in like two years, good work lads.
It's proof that no thread is truly bait, we just aren't taking the bait hard enough
That's because this is the only thread without a deranged indian spamming trannies in two years.
Good lord you're right
Okay but what happens if the Institute replaces the Commonwealth Exchequer with a synth and manipulates the economy? Huh gaygays, got an answer for that?
>Synth bones become extremely valuble, used for very large deals rather than just getting a load of human skeletons to show how much of something someone owes you or you owe them.
>due to inflation, synth bones are now used for the majority of day to day trades
>traders have had to use increasingly rare materials to make 'bones', like copper, silver, and gold
>the most expensive transactions are not only conducted through broken 'gold' sticks but to represent the sheer value of items/services traded, traders now use multiple broken gold sticks
>automated stick breaking and reassembling algorithms run the economy
We need to abolish our current form of currency and use sticks, it's a lot easier to keep track of and we'd be able to keep track of debts easier.
I've been saying this for years and nobody listened
>"You hear about that jackass, what's his face... Nate?"
>"Yeah, the pre-war guy who came out of a vault?"
>"He has no idea our currency is sticks."
>"What, seriously? He thinks we're using his old-world cash or something?"
>"No, no... He thinks we're using... Caps..."
>"What? Nobody's used that shit in forever!"
>"Yeah but some guy decided to try pulling a fast one on him and now he thinks those worthless bottlecaps mean something! Don't blow this dumbass, we can get him to do fricking anything for caps! He asks for more and you just hand 'em over 'cause they're WORTHLESS!"
>"How's he buying all that equipment, boss?"
>"Eh, people are just giving it to him either out of guilt or to better equip him to take care of their problems. The guy's like a communal mercenary for the whole community.
Everyone just acts real fricking weird when Nate asks them why they have skeletons everywhere.
I like the idea of caps being a real currency, but it's exclusively Nate-specific, serving as an IOU for Nate doing his thing as an unstoppable unkillable murder machine mercenary. Natecaps, the value of 1 cap is the equivalent of one Nate's worth of his labor. So they're worthless to everyone but Nate, that everyone still collects to pay Nate because Nate is just worth it. He uses those caps to get better weapons, armor, and ammo, and they'll give the caps back to Nate in exchange for him taking care of more problems.
>currency backed by one guy
Still more reliable than fricking dollar
>1 5 8 9
Huh?
When you think about it, blockchains are merely sticks of code
Sticks are the fiat currency
Stones are the unreliable crytpo currency nobody trust because they do not see the potential of a big rock.
The institute realizes they have accidently become the banking system of the wasteland completely on accident.
They begin giving out bones for favors, even higher-class bones to manipulate factions ect to better "guide" the wasteland to their vision of restoration.
In his office Father contemplates killing himself as he realizes that he's wasted his entire life developing synths when he could've just manipulated the economy for total control of the wasteland.
People now openly make deals with the institute and store their sticks safely with them since they keep their sticks nice and safe in their bunker, essentially becoming a literal bank for the entire wasteland and the various settlements in it.
The NCR is amazed at how such a stupid system can be so advanced.
>Nate breaks into the Institute, finds Sean much older now, drinking in his chair
>"I bet you have alot of questions for me, Father, well go ahead and ask"
>he asks about the fricking sticks
>Sean takes a long, slow sip of his drink, lays his head back on the chair, and sighs
>"You wouldn't understand..."
new vegas chads live rent free in Emil Pagliacci and his simps heads.
Well this was truly the greatest bait thread of all time
the currency should've been bullet casings.
spent bullet casings? why not just bullets
>buy bullets with casings
>shoot your bullets
>get more casings to buy bullets
???
Why is society still in shambles after 200 years anyway?
ISHYGDDT
Bottle caps as currency never made any sense to me. All it'll take is for somebody to get any bottling plant up and running again, start punching out new caps, and such persons will be drowning in caps. They'll have truckloads of them and quickly devalue caps to rightfully being worthless. At the very least, they should be using bullets as currency and ideally silver/gold.
You might as well argue that stick currency doesn't make sense because all it takes is pic related to cripple the economy.
>he doesn't know
>buy and own home with tons of equity
>one little fire breaks out
>lose all my home and my equity
fricking bullshit, I should've bought gold
Yes, that is why they stopped using caps in Fallout 2. And in Fallout New Vegas, they specifically highlighted that caps can be counterfeited and the merchant houses have to ruthlessly track down any illegal bottlecap presses.
>At the very least, they should be using bullets as currency and ideally silver/gold.
Who let the Metrogays in? But yeah bottle caps are silly but I didn't mind too much in F1 since the backing of the water merchants made enough sense and by the time new caps could be "printed" the NCR had actual gold backed currency. Plus F1 has a goofy side too.
When The Hub started issuing bottlecaps, nobody had the know-how to even keep a basic water purifier running let alone running and supplying a bottlecap smelting machine. Sabotaging a still-salvageable Sunset Sarsparilla bottling plant is literally one of the quests you do for the Crimson Caravan in New Vegas.
Bullets are actually pretty shit as currency, since their value is highly flexible (a city-slicker needs to shoot less than a frontier hunter), and it isn't a good store of value (bullets go bad and are dangerous to store). They barely worked in Metro because the tools used to make milspec ammunition don't exist anymore, which means that every bullet that gets fired, cooks off in storage, or gets waterlogged is an irreversible deflation of the currency.
And getting a printing press up and running is the first step to having a counterfeit money operation, what's the point of these hypotheticals?
>All it'll take is for somebody to get any bottling plant up and running again, start punching out new caps
https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Counterfeit_bottle_cap
and https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Pressing_Matters
You know New Vegas actually cares about its setting / worldbuilding because it has both a location dedicated to a piss-poor counterfeit operation and a side quest dedicated to a proper one.
I wish they let you run the press yourself
>run the press
>Crimson Caravan finds out
>Courier canonically gets raped to death by Gun Runner-supplied death squads with anti-materiel rifles and fat men, backed by the Caravan
Enclave heavy infantry, plasma rifle, or gatling laser?
Is there a game that uses sticks as a currency?
Any multiplayer sandbox survival game that lets you harvest wood.
you can harvest wood in 76..
Yes, my game as of this moment, because I have become stickpilled
Based, if I knew how to make a game the economy would be based on sticks
Runescape has trading sticks as the currency in Tai Bwo Wannai village
Does it work like the tally stick?
>worldbuilding
>in bethesda fallouts
there is no "worldbuilding" in these shit games
its just a bunch of people in 50s clothes squatting in trash filled ruins 200 years after the apocalypse, nobody knows what a broom or tools are, yet they dress in perfect 1950's clothing, it's laughably moronic
Why didn't they use ammunition as currency instead of bottle caps?
>has the single greatest value in a post apocalypse setting
>most people won't know how to make more meaning whoever can produce it controls the wasteland
One, because in Fallout, people actually do know how to manufacture ammunition and weapons. Two, because bottlecaps were specifically backed by the Water Merchants. They were essentially IOUs that people discovered were good for rounding out transactions (see the entire stick conversation as to why sticks are the blatantly superior option here).
>people actually do know how to manufacture ammunition and weapons
What was the point in the stealing the gunrunners schematics in new vegas then?
That's a big rat. Looks like prime Klamath food.
You are aware that the Gun Runners know how to manufacture that ammunition as far back as Fallout 1. Along with organizations that had existed (and were destroyed) prior to Fallout 1, like the United Atomic Workers. The BoS is also a major player in the weapons market in Fallout 1. You steal the Gun Runner schematics because something something they have a better production method, I don't remember. It's not like the schematic is necessary to do something as reload ammunition.
You're wrong and only the Gun Runners actually produce new weaponry, but even so, there is a world of difference between
>properly rifling a barrel
>stamping a functional lower receiver
>threading, sights, etc. that must be extremely precise (not even getting into glass)
and
>bubba fricking around with powder to produce hot loads
my nogunz-having friend. If we were discussing mere shotguns like that piece of shit Rose of Sharon Cassidy carries around and nothing else you'd be less wrong, but even realistic stuff like the Marksman Rifle would be extremely easy to frick up without schematics. Never mind complete fiction like whatever is making a Winchester plasma caster function, a minigun, etc., where it's all so complex that it becomes rapidly becomes clear why the NCR just tries to forage for everything, or purchases it from dedicated contractors like the Gun Runners or Van Graffs.
A better question for this thread would be why the NCR decided to just unga bunga execute all the Enclave, who had things like an R&D department and pre-war records, rather than actually employ some of them to solve some of the mysteries of the old world.
>A better question for this thread would be why the NCR decided to just unga bunga execute all the Enclave, who had things like an R&D department and pre-war records, rather than actually employ some of them to solve some of the mysteries of the old world.
I know one of the ending slides for the NCR in Fallout 2 has them integrate a bunch of surviving Enclave members into their society, isn't what what canonically happened? It's what i got on every playthrough
No, every character you ask (including old Enclave remnants) tell you the NCR just killed every man, woman and child who was ever part of the Enclave.
Anon, I am fairly certain the Crimson Caravan already has the capacity to manufacture their own weapons. The point is that there are multiple groups in the Fallout setting more than capable of manufacturing firearms and especially ammunition. But in Fallout 1, there is only ONE group that controls the water in the Hub. After Fallout 1, yeah bottlecaps no longer make sense; but neither does using ammunition or anything else.
>I am fairly certain the Crimson Caravan already has the capacity to manufacture their own weapons
Well you would be wrong because the Gun Runners and New Canaanites do that, Crimson Caravan specializes in caravans and logistics. Van Graffs may or may not produce energy weapons. I'm leaning toward "do not" because their stock is really low durability and Gloria expresses interest in where Mr. House stores his robots.
The Van Graffs do manufacture their energy weapons. The Crimson Caravan is also trying to put a tariff on the Gun Runner's equipment, and the exact words used in the quest are
>The quality of the Gun Runners' armaments is due to their manufacturing process
Which seems to imply that the edge the Gun Runners have is based on quality, not the total inability to manufacture weapons on part of the Crimson Caravan. Especially since the moment you steal the holotape, Alice says they are going to manufacture their own weapons immediately, which also indicates they already have the facilities set up.
Because ammunition is not currency. It's a perishable object of practical use. But you can trade with ammunition. You can trade with anything that has value. Basically, you're an idiot.
all of these fricking morons ITT pretending this type of character wouldn't absolutely fit in fallout 2 and 1. Fallout 2 in particular is flooded with pop culture shit like Parker. Also, it doesn't damage worldbuilding at all. he's supposed to be a scam artist. Holy shit, there is so much you can criticize about Fallout 4's dogshit worldbuilding and you cherry picked this? noose your Black person neck NOW
You are a secondary, and a moron as well.
you can't even read. i wouldn't trust you to boil water without fricking it up, incompetent monkey.
>15 year old F3 critique still encapsulates everything wrong with Bethesda Fallout including the show
Fallout is an especially ironic IP to turn into a consumerist theme park franchise, like making a Brave New World park in Disney World
Vault Boy became the very thing he was supposed to satirize, worst of all people actually prefer the corporate take
Bethesda Fallout is simply moronic which is why being contrarian in its favor is such reliable trolling.
>baits people effortlessly
>specifically baits people with an irrepressible desire to correct people / nitpick
>can use actual bethesdrones for camouflage / plausible deniability
>water just flows out into the ocean once purified
kek I forgot about this
there should be a "Bottlecap Knuckles" unarmed weapon, that's just some bottlecaps welded to brass knuckles. It would hurt.
The real question is why are bottlecaps being used in Fallout NV when NCR dollars/bucks are still around?
The Fall of Shady Sands devalued the NCR dollar
Then it got nuked after NV
What ENB?
the NCR is only moving into Vegas now and its currency isn't trusted or highly valued by the locals, so they value the bottle cap more because its what they were already using
it's the same reason denarii aren't super commonly used
that said, caps in New Vegas don't have the same Water Merchant backing as they did in Fallout 1 but it could just be that merchants from the west had visited the tribes in Vegas in the past and the currency just stuck with them, due to shit like how there are still cap presses in and around Vegas so it's a convenient currency to use
>caps in New Vegas don't have the same Water Merchant backing as they did in Fallout 1
New Vegas is the crown israeliteel of that shithole desert and House probably just made the primary currency bottle caps because it made trading with existing groups easier.
The reason why caps were used in F1 was because water was so valued in the now-even-shittier California wasteland desert, real life Nevada shouldn't even need nuking to know the value of water today
Because New Vegas isn't actually NCR territory? It's occupied according to a treaty. Would you rather trade in the currency that the merchant caravans use, or a piece of paper from a weak-ass occupying power that even has "not payable in specie" printed on it. The Families and House will take your dollar, but they don't believe in it.
bottlecaps make sense theme wise, something as worthless and mass produced in 50s consoomer minded america is literally money now, dying over a few bottlecaps is the kind of silly edgy vibe bethesda is going for
their writing is quite uninspired but it's stupid to get worked over hard lore details when they obviously have a more fairytale-like approach to the setting, think back to the kids cave back in Fallout 3, they were never about 'what do they eat' worldbuilding type
>they were never about 'what do they eat' worldbuilding type
I actually disagree with this. Bethesda has this approach with Fallout, but not with TES. Despite its flaws, Skyrim does actually make an effort to explain the economy of the world to a reasonable extent, and it plays a noticeable factor in the setting. Like the Black-Briars having so much influence over Riften because they have a big frick-off meadery, or Solitude being pro-Empire because they have so much trade from them. Skyrim still has its flaws, obviously, like the fact that half the population works in the banditry industry, but Bethesda is capable of designing a functional world. But they genuinely don't care about doing that for Fallout. They should, because the core ethos of Fallout has always been
>to explore more of the ethics and society of a post-nuclear world, not to make a better plasma gun
>muh lore.
who cares. Lore is reddit.
Did Bethesda contribute a single iconic thing to the Fallout IP?
It's really funny how Black Isle/Interplay made all the main elements like the Power Armor, vaults, Vault Boy, Pip Boys, bottle caps, super mutants, deathclaws, the Master etc for F1 and instead of just rehashing them they still found it necessary to make the APA, the Enclave, the GECK, Frank, NCR for F2. Then Bethesda couldn't do shit but rehash those for F3, even the main armor being just a more tacticool take on the original Power Armor.
Then immediately afterwards Obsidian shows them how it's done again with New Vegas and New Vegas itself, Mr House, Legion (reused from Van Buren but still the point stands), the unique Ranger armor, Securitrons, cazadors etc. Then Bethesda tries and embarrasses themselves with synths in F4 with the only takeaway anyone had being "wtf none of this makes any sense why are they doing this".
Truly legendary levels of ineptitude at Bethesda.
>Did Bethesda contribute a single iconic thing to the Fallout IP?
Liberty Prime
Liberty Prime is one of the most embarassing examples of why Bethesda doesn't 'get' Fallout and never will
Wrong. It's exactly in line with the portrayal of pre-war America from prior Fallout games and you don't 'get' Fallout and never will if you believe otherwise.
>It's exactly in line with the portrayal of pre-war America from prior Fallout games
No it's not purely due to the stupid retro mech factor, real Fallout games would've made it a small terminator army or something. The Fallout world was still supposed to be somewhat feasible and not ACTUALLY something from the Jetsons-like media they had.
>The Fallout world was still supposed to be somewhat feasible
You can't be serious...
Liberty Prime is something you'd find in a pre-war patriotic movie in the Fallout universe, not something the government itself would develop.
What exactly is feasible about Mr. Handy? Those things use up an absurd amount of fuel floating around.
>Wrong. It's exactly in line with the portrayal of pre-war America
And this is the perfect example of why Bethesda doesn't "get" Fallout
You still believe the "Fallout is serious business, guiz" nonsense. It's a completely farcical cartoon universe and anyone who claims otherwise doesn't get it.
Fallout was not farcical, it was a depressing and brutal adventure through a cautionary and ultimately hopeless tale. Fallout 2 is where the farce began to kick in. New Vegas is significantly less silly than 2.
>American soldier shooting a POW in the head and waving to the camera while his buddies laugh is not farcical
>FEV experimentation to create a super-soldier that makes the subject totally moronic is not farcical
>American soldier shooting a POW in the head and waving to the camera while his buddies laugh is not farcical
there is a small mountain of liveleak videos demonstrating this is neither unrealistic nor farcical
>muh mutants
go back to the toll booth, mr. hines
>there is a small mountain of liveleak videos demonstrating this is neither unrealistic nor farcical
And those aren't broadcasted on live television, moron.
You also have no argument for the mutants.
go back to the toll booth, mr. hines
>And those aren't broadcasted on live television, moron
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execution_of_Nguy%E1%BB%85n_V%C4%83n_L%C3%A9m
The First World has never broadcast a prisoner getting their head blown off. It's farcical for Fallout to portray America to do such.
the first world showed saddam hussein being hanged
inb4
>well that isnt identical to a man being shot despite being the literal same thing otherwise so it doesnt count
Did Bush's finest soldier do a fist pump right after and tell you to buy war bands NOW?
yes, the press and pundits and everyone in between were told by the dubya administration to celebrate
to imply something like "the western world would never glorify cold-blooded murder on television" makes you either a disingenuous fricktard baiting for replies at 5AM or such a brainless fricking moron that you probably paid money for fallout 4
Did Fallout shoot the prime minister of Canada or didn't they just shoot a random mook prisoner of war? Why would the world of Fallout celebrate the death of a single soldier, if it were not a farcical game?
Black person if you split that hair any more desperately you're going to set off an atomic explosion
>And those aren't broadcasted on live television, moron.
They would be in a Third World War situation, remember how Captain America and Donald Duck used to beat up Japanese caricatures, western mainstream media celebrates drone footage from the Ukraine war etc
>You also have no argument for the mutants.
It's literally shit America tried to do IRL
>And those aren't broadcasted on live television, moron.
few years ago president of serbia broadcasted tortured corpses of people killed by some crime group. It's not that far fetched
Both of these are played completely straight within the setting, though. The mutants are a legitimate threat to both the player and every settlement in Fallout 1.
You clearly don't understand, if a story contains something that doesn't exist in real life then the tone defaults to wacky and silly. It's a farce and must not be taken seriously or attributed any weight whatsoever. This is the actual thought process Bethesda executives have by the way.
>Especially since the moment you steal the holotape, Alice says they are going to manufacture their own weapons immediately, which also indicates they already have the facilities set up
It seems more like the Crimson Caravan would be willing to divert funds to some kind of gun manufacturing process now that they have proven schematics. Also everything you buy from the Gun Runners is in top condition alongside whatever unique weapons they offer, which is something only they offer, and thus a hint that only they are actually producing guns. What else would differentiate them from Crimson Caravan if Alice, etc. were already making guns? Not using pig iron?
>What else would differentiate them from Crimson Caravan if Alice, etc. were already making guns? Not using pig iron?
Well, presumably their production process which leads to higher quality firearms. Just because Norinco can build a gun doesn't mean that gun is as good as the alternatives. Which is why McLafferty wants the process. Also the Gun Runners are highly decentralized. Their factory is directly in New Vegas, which probably keeps costs down.
I think you are plainly implying Crimson Caravan manufactures guns when there's no evidence of that whatsoever. Their business is based on consolidating caravan companies to move goods in a post-war environment full of monsters, mutants, heavily irradiated zones, etc. and I'll assume they do a decent job since they're wealthy. Alice wouldn't have you breaking into a competitor's manufacturing plant to steal schematics if they already had an idea on how to produce a gun from scratch. Producing guns is also not a simple process, especially not if you want to make something like a functional anti-materiel rifle.
That's why I said I am fairly certain. And I laid out my evidence
>Crimson Caravan actively wants to tariff the Gun Runners specifically
>Crimson Caravan is able to "immediately" begin using the Gun Runner's process when you steal it, implying that they already had the facilities set up
>McLafferty specifically mentions the reason to spy on the Gun Runners is specifically because they manufacture higher quality weapons, as opposed to her simply saying "we need to know how to manufacture weapons at all"
As for what you said:
>Alice wouldn't have you breaking into a competitor's manufacturing plant to steal schematics if they already had an idea on how to produce a gun from scratch
That's the whole point going back to the quality thing. Just because you know how to manufacture something does not mean you understand the most efficient processes for its manufacture. To me, it seems like the Crimson Caravan is able to manufacture weapons, but they are of lower quality as a result of a worse manufacturing process. Otherwise they wouldn't be able to immediately start producing using the Gun Runner's process, as they would still need to get their own infrastructure in place to manufacture if none existed in the first place.
>Producing guns is also not a simple process, especially not if you want to make something like a functional anti-materiel rifle.
The NCR is a fairly functional state, there is an educated class of engineers and scientists within the NCR. It's not like the expertise doesn't exist.
>The NCR is a fairly functional state, there is an educated class of engineers and scientists within the NCR
If you mean guys like Hildern he mentions the OSI are a pretty new phenomenon, not even a full 10 years before New Vegas started. Then in Sloan you have guys using pre-war quarry equipment because the NCR doesn't know how to produce that. Then the NCR president is flying around in an Enclave vertibird with a bear painted on the side, protected by guys who wear power armor plating without servos because nobody understands how to produce that either.
The running theme is very clearly "California isn't very advanced", with small groups like the Gun Runners being the chief reason why they're doing well at all.
>McLafferty specifically mentions the reason to spy on the Gun Runners is specifically because they manufacture higher quality weapons, as opposed to her simply saying "we need to know how to manufacture weapons at all"
She doesn't say that, she talks about schematics. Gun Runners only produce one single product (guns) so there's nothing they could offer you, other than guns or knowledge on how to create guns. This once again plays into the game's theme where NCR is a conglomerate of bureaucrats relying on a few pockets of actually skilled individuals, with Crimson Caravan being one of the more obvious examples of this.
The quest is not
>go buy these specific advanced weapons from the Gun Runners in 100% condition so we can reverse engineer them
The quest is
>go get schematics from the gun-making guys that tell them how to make guns
On behalf of some b***h who doesn't seem to know how to do anything other than shake hands, offer people money to solve her problems and consolidate the task of walking really far with some cargo. They're not making guns the same way the NCR isn't making vertibirds. They're leeches. Even Caesar's Legion actually invents shit, like healing powder.
>Even Caesar's Legion actually invents shit, like healing powder.
braindead tribal morons had healing powder in 2 using the exact same recipe, the legion didn't invent shit
Legion invented bitter drink tho
>If you mean guys like Hildern he mentions the OSI are a pretty new phenomenon
I mean just in general. For as far back as before Fallout 1, almost a century and a half before the events of New Vegas, you had the United Atomic Workers, the Gun Runners, and the Brotherhood manufacturing weapons. There are alot of people with the expertise and knowledge to manufacture firearms.
>She doesn't say that, she talks about schematics.
>"The quality of the Gun Runners' armaments is due to their manufacturing process. They craft all weapons on-site. I want to know the secrets of their manufacturing process, which means you'll need to find some way to get inside their heavily-guarded factory."
And like I said, Alice McLafferty further goes on to say:
>I hear it's business as usual at the Gun Runners, as if nothing unusual happened. Excellent work. We'll be able to use the schematics you acquired to begin manufacturing our own weapons immediately. We'll provide some to you at a discount
Keyword being immediately. Now I will say that this isn't certain. Because she also says "begin manufacturing our own weapons", but that is couched in stealing the methods of their manufacturing process. To me, it is a toss-up between "we will begin manufacturing weapons" as an absolute thing or "we will begin manufacturing weapons [with this process]". Personally, because she says immediately, I am inclined to believe that the Crimson Caravan already had a weapons manufacturing division, otherwise it would take time for them to put together the infrastructure for that manufacturing.
The most telling quests in NV are in Camp Forlorn Hope
>NCR uses pre-war radio encryption
>Caesar cracks those encryptions
>the guys in skirts who forbid using technology cracked radio encryption
>they then proceed to make new radio encryption
>NCR cannot crack it because they just used old methods
>cant make new ones
>faction that is forbidden from even using radios invents better encryption than faction who relies on radios
None of that makes sense considering how much the game tells you that Legion forbids any technology at all, so much to the point that Caesar has to ask you pretty-fricking-please to step into a bunker owned by House just to destroy shit. And he won't even step one legionary foot inside to make sure you did, so you can literally turn on a robot factory underneath his camp and he'll believe it was destroyed just because the ground shook.
Man that's dumb. And I'm supposed to believe the NCR doesn't have people who understand radio, and the Legion does? I would roll my eyes at that shit if I saw it ingame.
Alright, I just went ahead and wiki'd it:
>Fallout: New Vegas Official Game Guide Collector's Edition p.306: "[2.09] Crimson Caravan Company
>The Crimson Caravan Company is the largest supplier to the NCR of military-grade weaponry, and an assortment of provisions and other equipment types. Their base of operations is a highly fortified walled base just east of the main Freeside and Strip area, alarmingly close to their rivals; the Gun Runners. There are two entrances to this location (east and west)."
Anon, the first game starts off right off the bat with a silly cartoon followed by a comical execution.
Fallout is meant to be American Mad Max with more satire and not Borderlands, I have no idea why Bethdrones have such a hard time grasping that
What is that image supposed to prove? All he says is "We wanted to make another RPG but not another sequel to A Bard's Tale and so I made something that ripped off a movie and an RPG." That's got nothing to do with what we are talking about.
Read the post moron, we're talking about the intended tone of the IP and we have a quote from the creator the inspiration was Mad Max
And? That still doesn't say anything about tone. What does say something about tone is the content of the game which is frequently silly and light-hearted. The very first thing you see is silly and light-hearted.
>And? That still doesn't say anything about tone.
If Mad Max is cited as the inspiration then we can confidently say the tone is meant to be more like Mad Max than Borderlands
>What does say something about tone is the content of the game which is frequently silly and light-hearted.
I don't think there's anything in real Fallout I'd describe as light-hearted, even the naive media is only used to contrast with the brutal wasteland
>The very first thing you see is silly and light-hearted.
A POW execution is silly and light-hearted? Anon the fact you're a sociopath doesn't mean the game is, you're supposed to find it grim. Satire of war and other brutal human conditions can be funny without being a joke.
Nah, just that the weird obsession with pre-War America is the evidence for why Bethesda doesn't "get" Fallout
>main sticking point is the fact that it was supposed to be a critique of blind patriotism but it was so clumsy everyone thought it was earnestly patriotic and cheered alongside it
Still funny
>main sticking point is the fact that it was supposed to be a critique of blind patriotism but it was so clumsy everyone thought it was earnestly patriotic and cheered alongside it
>sticking
kek
Liberty Prime. Checkmate.
>Did Bethesda contribute a single iconic thing to the Fallout IP?
is right, but a better question to ask is if they contributed a single good thing to the Fallout IP
and the answer is no
Mini nukes
Bethesda commodified the daddy issue plot device.
Liberty Prime
All the random brands introduced in Fallout 3, like sugar bombs or Blamco
Uh...s-synths...
The actual answer is that the addition of the Pip-Boy radio is actually a genius game design decision that did a lot to align the tone of Fallout's gameplay with Bethesda's version of its setting
>The actual answer is that the addition of the Pip-Boy radio is actually a genius game design decision that did a lot to align the tone of Fallout's gameplay with Bethesda's version of its setting
The issue with the radio is that it completely destroys the tone the games used to have, one of my favorite moments in NV was just wandering the desert with the radio off and hearing a Mark Morgan ambient track, whereas with the radio there's never any reason to hear anything but a ranting announcer or a gay tune. It'd be nice occasionally but it just dominates too much of the gameplay.
I mean, I also tend to turn it off in New Vegas for similar reasons. The fact that NV has a lot of classic Fallout tracks helps establish the tone. I'm just saying that it's very effective, just in the complete opposite tonal and thematic direction of Fallout 1.
Coincidentally, if you go back to the E3 2008 trailer for Fallout 3, it's telling that they mimicked the introduction of Fallout 1 after their fake Vault-Tec commercial, but then continue playing the music over the subsequent game footage of the player character shooting, and shooting, and shooting, and...
?t=85
It really misses the point of what makes the Fallout 1 intro so memorable. The moment when the TV turns off and all you're left with is the sound of the wind through the skeletons of skyscrapers before Ron Perlman's narration starts
Just look at the guns too. Shit, Fallout 1 has a Desert Eagle. A lot of guns looked modern and Fallout 2 goes even harder with that. Bethesda's guns are ugly and lame in comparison.
Despite their shitty guns locking down hardcore in F4 and Starfield, Fallout 3 assault rifle and Fallout 3 chinese assault rifle were sorely missing from New Vegas.
Well to be fair The NCR, GECK, and The Highwayman were also F1. Just mainly the slides or a manual joke, F2 would go on to develop the concepts. F2 still did introduce Vault City, New Reno, The Shi, Hubologist (which Beth would also borrow), Tribals, Jet which NV itself would build off of.
>The Highwayman
This reminds me of how woefully unused it went after 2, maybe with F5 being 15 years away Bethesda manages to develop car tech so they can use it as the big selling point in the promotional material
That was one of the highlights of F2 was cruising around with the gang going 4x speed on the worldmap passing Enclave fricktards. If Beth can't do a Highwayman I'd take a motorcycle stand-in.
The best I can do is four fast travel screens between empty hubworlds
i hate bethesda, but the world is better with assaultrons in it
Eye bots are so kino, Obsidian used two for the same character
Eye bots were in the first two games
And Obsidian would never have used them if they used the old model. Because it's shit. Bethesda fixed it and added a radio to 'em.
I'm not a bethesda-drone but the radio broadcasts and the cinematic VATS aim for a FPS shooter were well implemented.
Unironically, the arm mounted pip-boy. Other than that, nothing.
>Did Bethesda contribute a single iconic thing to the Fallout IP?
Depends I guess. Does pasta count?
>casually dismantles your post-apocalyptic republic
HelloOoOo
How do you destroy gold reserves
Just smelt them back into ingots, idiot
dilute the gold into a heavily poor alloy
Oh yeah, Liberty Prime existed. I feel like even if you completely ignore Fallout lore and go for rule of cool that Liberty Prime is lame and forgetful. Something about this design just feels uninspired to me. Couldn't Bethesda take cues from either their power armor design philosopy or other mecha franchises. I feel like an Iron Giant-esque design would work.
Found the commie in the thread.
Throwing nukes was cool. You might have memory issues.
i liked the part of fallout 3 where i felt like an irrelevant side character in the climax of the main quest
until it was my destiny to die, that is
>i liked the part of fallout 3 where i felt like an irrelevant side character in the climax of the main quest
Truly it was Oblivion with guns
Honestly I liked that in Oblivion. Then every Skyrim-like afterward has to have you be given the power fantasy tools right from the get-go.
They had mountains of good shit from Adam and ignored most of it, what little they used they mangled, like usual
There were a lot of actual coins before the war and they're very durable. Why not use them? What happened to all the pre-war coins?
lore is totally optional and not needed to make a story good. not everything needs and explanation and in some cases better off not having one.
a good story is determined by an author writing 100% of it, then only sharing about 20% with the audience
things make sense internally and the audience gets hints of that, but they dont know how, and that captivates them
And you can use fans' theorizing as a way to fix and polish your lore. Wrecking the lore because fans guessed some secret correctly is moronic.
>wrecking the lore because fans guessed some secret correctly is moronic
this feels like a relevant time to mention that the fallout show was created by the same person who did westworld
Never watched those, so I don't know what are getting at.
S1 was good but Nolan got mad fans picked up on all the foreshadowing and guessed the twist beforehand so he turned S2, S3, and S4 into a stupid incomprehensible mess that means nothing and leads nowhere simply so no one could guess what happens
I see. I wonder if people actually want to figure out what's going to happen. The shows seems to have good score. Could be good special effects making idiots go wow, tho.
>The shows seems to have good score.
So does Rings of Power, The Witcher, Invinicble, Hazbin Hotel etc
Point taken.
Good, normalgays are so hopeless.
>Good
*God
The frick do you mean?
A quick browse of metacritic for those titles and Rings of Power has a mid critic score of 71 and piss poor user score of 2.8. Invincible season 1 is also mid critic score of 73, high user score of 8.1. Season 2 is an average critic score of 82 and a worse user score of 5.9.
Good score my ass.
You would be right if you were discussing another franchise. The core goal of the isometric Fallouts was to explore the functions and ethics of a post-nuclear society; and the games were very good as a result of this. To strip away this goal to pursue something else, especially something as asinine as Fallout 3 and 4's main plots, would be a massive waste of the IP.
So lets just rape and gut it because frick you? Internal consitancy and even the simple concept of caring about anything seems like complete poison to casual morons like you for some reason.
>So lets just rape and gut it because frick you?
Why not? America does it all the time when they knock off Seven Samurai.
The Fallout setting was a complete goldmine for Bethesda. Should they just not buy the IP and make a hallmark best seller video game series because >muh integrity? >muh lore?
Cartridge casings would probably make a more believeable currency.
Not cartridges themselves, but the casings.
>buy ammo
>shoot ammo
>get more money to buy ammo
???
Yeah, ofc the cartridges would cost more casings.
It's not like 1 cartridge=1 casing. This creates an economy where people keeps reusing casings since metal and ammunition is a rare yet a very important resource.
In a post apocalyptic scenerio, people would be doing that anyways. Not everyone would be able to make more ammo from those casings. But there definitely would be people doing that and even selling those ammo.
At the very least, people would be using the metal from those casings for making tiny knives or whatever.
ammo would obviously be mroe expensive than the cartridges themselves.
And I suppose bullets themselves would be slightly more expensive.
>ammo would obviously be mroe expensive than the cartridges themselves.
So like how a coke can can be taken to the right place and I get 5 cents back on it.
More like how glass coke bottles were recycled. Or like how certain raw materials are used to print paper, how metals are used to make israeliteellery that is sold for far more, etc.
In the wasteland where everyone needs to be armed, this makes sense.
Some apocalyptic scenerios already have ammo based econo;y but it isnt as realistic,
They just say everyone barters with bullets,
>every body on all four looking for the casings after any gun fight
kek thats the worse idea itt
kek that would happen regardless of if it was the defacto currency you silly billy
Yeah, except have you considered sticks?
>pay for the labour of creating a functional bullet with the case, a portion of the material needed to create the bullet
Using a bullet increases its value? Or do cases have a fraction of the value of the bullets?
>brass goblins exist both IRL and in Fallout
Yeah frick that
Fun gaming fact: Emil wrote and voice-acted specifically so he gets to call the player character a moron.
i dont know why people care about the "worldbuilding" in bethesda fallout
bethesda certainly doesn't
>Casually dismantles worldbuilding to make a shitty joke
free motion sensor :))
That's just a special encounter. What you really should bring up are the talking racoon logs in The Glow or what Bobs prime cuts are made out of.
Don't forget the super fricking gay Monty Python reference that gives you good early game armor. Fallout 1 is the only good one.
That is Fallout 1 tard.
(You)
That's Ian
>Theres litereally nothing different between a one off easter egg you can randomly stumble upon and an entire quest to dedicated to bullshit played off as not a joke but something your meant to accept as happening within the internal logistics of the setting
Why are you people so moronic.
>Mods game to replace bottlecaps with "Brotherhood Bucks"
wow game is fixed, and now no nerd complaints about muh bottlecaps
>wow game is fixed
Black person please, do you honestly think adding third party content to a game actually changes anything, are you actually this stupid?
The point is it's about as meaningful to the enjoyment of your game as a Tardis in a random special encounter.
Just mentally filter those bottlecaps into Wasteland Dollarydoos. Problem solved. You ignored the problem as easily as ignoring the existence of the Tardis in the Fallout-verse.
lore is reddit
It's called lampshading, and lampshading your own dumb ass writing is called being moronic.
I’ll be honest Ganker. Im going to confess.
Ive never played Fallout 1 or 2.
My first fallout was 3 for Xbox360 back in the 00’s
you should play them, they're good
>try to play the game
>walk out of starting cave
>encounter scorpions
>miss miss miss miss
>die
>same thing happens over and over.
Great game tbh.
Tag the skills you use to fight enemies with
so for example if you want to shoot enemies with guns, put points in your small gun skill
desu
when i made my character, their unarmed skill was the strongest no matter what I did stats wise. So I just decided to play unarmed. Then when I actually play the game unarmed attacks do like 1 damage.
Cool, least your honest unlike anons that talk about games they've never played. If you want to ever try them grab Fixt/Et Tu for F1 and the Unofficial Patch for F2. Then set combat speed to max and turn always running on. They're great games.
I was like you once. Started with 3 as well because I didn't game on PC growing up. You should play them, they're good fun. Get past Shady Sands and Junktown and let the fun begin.
About to finish another playthrough.
Is that the character voiced by Emil who calls the player a moron no matter what?
Alright, good thread guys.
People who take everything in Fallout seriously don't understand that it's meant to be full of jokes. It's a part of what makes it work, why it's popular.
see
Emil derangement syndrome.